Posted by: Andyr
« on: February 01, 2005, 01:09:12 PM »Yeh. But I'd better not say too much, I hear she posts here under a different name. 
Posted by: Ashara
« on: February 01, 2005, 12:45:09 PM »That Domi sounds like a horrible slave driver, Andyr... 
Posted by: Andyr
« on: February 01, 2005, 12:19:44 PM »Well, no I never wanted it as part of the BG1Tutu core. If people really don't want to install the bugfixes (or whatever else), then they don't have to.Well. If you're gonna be sticking around, then cool. But if I end up doing Tutufix again, I'm sure as hell not wasting time making sure it works for people who want to play with the bugs left in. Past experience tells me that more options = bad, in this case.
And yeh. Easier support was the whole reason for including them in Tutu in the first place. As it is, we might still need two versions of some stuff (the journals component?), which really sucks.
I will probably recode the Journal component soon so it should work either way. After finishing stuff for Domi.
Posted by: Ashara
« on: February 01, 2005, 09:53:47 AM »No, Baldurdash is not a part of the install as far as I have seen. Tutleyfix is an option on install prior to the program's converting. Most of TUTUfix is an option after conversion.
Posted by: Necaradan
« on: February 01, 2005, 09:46:35 AM »So do I still install Baldurdash or is that included now (it doesn't mention in the v5 readme)
Posted by: SimDing0™
« on: January 31, 2005, 04:10:33 PM »Well, no I never wanted it as part of the BG1Tutu core. If people really don't want to install the bugfixes (or whatever else), then they don't have to.Well. If you're gonna be sticking around, then cool. But if I end up doing Tutufix again, I'm sure as hell not wasting time making sure it works for people who want to play with the bugs left in. Past experience tells me that more options = bad, in this case.
And yeh. Easier support was the whole reason for including them in Tutu in the first place. As it is, we might still need two versions of some stuff (the journals component?), which really sucks.
Posted by: japheth
« on: January 31, 2005, 03:10:40 PM »Quote
I thought we were to expect a selection of Dudley's fixes as part of TuTu's core instead of being given an option about having them or not during installation...
Well, no I never wanted it as part of the BG1Tutu core. If people really don't want to install the bugfixes (or whatever else), then they don't have to.
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What's then the difference between installing first Dudleyville's fixes then installing TuTu and installing Dudleyville's as part of the TuTu installation, except that they have been WeiDuized ?
It gives us control to change certain things so that the Dudleyville fixes are compatible with BG1Tutu. (i.e. AR1800.BCS... Dudley simply removed the reference to NARRAT.CRE in that script file, which in turn caused the Tutufix to crap out when it couldn't find _NARRAT.CRE since it wasn't converted due to BG1Tutu no longer seeing the CreateCreature("NARRAT",x,y) in that script file.)
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And one more question: being Dudleyville still working on the bugfixes, can we expect TuTu follow his work through updates ? (-Salk dreams of TuTu version being released every week!-)
Yeah, I (or somebody else) will surely keep things up to date. I'm not sure about weekly, but hopefully I'll be a bit better about updating things than before.
Posted by: Salk
« on: January 31, 2005, 02:46:58 PM »I thought we were to expect a selection of Dudley's fixes as part of TuTu's core instead of being given an option about having them or not during installation...What's then the difference between installing first Dudleyville's fixes then installing TuTu and installing Dudleyville's as part of the TuTu installation, except that they have been WeiDuized ? And one more question: being Dudleyville still working on the bugfixes, can we expect TuTu follow his work through updates ? (-Salk dreams of TuTu version being released every week! -) Thanks, japheth! 
-) Thanks, japheth! Posted by: japheth
« on: January 31, 2005, 12:52:05 PM »Everything is all included in one archive (bg1tutuv5.exe) which is about 3MB now.
As for the actual Dudleyville fixes, they're split up into core bugfixes, music fixes and the english language game text update.
As for the actual Dudleyville fixes, they're split up into core bugfixes, music fixes and the english language game text update.
Posted by: Andyr
« on: January 31, 2005, 12:40:24 PM »Have you done the whole package as one component, or split them in any way?
Posted by: japheth
« on: January 31, 2005, 11:36:34 AM »Okay, I read a few posts but this thread is way too long to read the whole thing. From what I'm understanding, people are worried that bundled Dudleyville fixes will somehow "compromise" the install.
The way it's coded makes both bugfix installing and non-bugfix installing users happy. I've "WeiDUized" the Dudleyville install and you are presented with the standard [Y]es, [N]o, [Q]uit options right at the start of the BG1Tutu install. So if you really don't want to install Dudleyville's bugfixes, simply hit N.
Easy enough no? (I should note that I had already coded it this way before this huge thread broke out.)
The way it's coded makes both bugfix installing and non-bugfix installing users happy. I've "WeiDUized" the Dudleyville install and you are presented with the standard [Y]es, [N]o, [Q]uit options right at the start of the BG1Tutu install. So if you really don't want to install Dudleyville's bugfixes, simply hit N.
Easy enough no? (I should note that I had already coded it this way before this huge thread broke out.
)Posted by: Ashara
« on: January 31, 2005, 11:16:45 AM »Or, I can stick with TUTU4+fix 7. That's what I would have done if I did not have to maintain BG1NPC.
Can all the fixes at least be *included* into conversion, not uploaded separetly?
Can all the fixes at least be *included* into conversion, not uploaded separetly?
Posted by: NiGHTMARE
« on: January 31, 2005, 10:36:04 AM »- The number of people who don't want bug fixes seems to be considerably smaller than those who do.
- Just because your game is flawless, doesn't mean everyone else's is. Ashara is obviously very lucky to have a PC system which apparently runs Tutu absolutely flawlessly, but I somewhat doubt any two BG players have completely identical system specs.
- The vast majority of bug fixes won't interfere with mods, and most of those which do will be left out by the Tutu team.
- If you've never noticed any problems with BG, the bug fixes will be completely invisible to you, and not hinder you or your game in any way whatsoever.
- Including the bug fixes in Tutu will make life considerably easier for the Tutu developers.
I would say the creators of Tutu should not cater for the minority of players, especially not when it would make their jobs considerably more dfficult... and definitely not when that minority of players apparently won't even notice any difference with or without the bug fixes installed, but a great many other people most certainly WILL notice the removal of game crashes, lock-ups and other problems.
- Just because your game is flawless, doesn't mean everyone else's is. Ashara is obviously very lucky to have a PC system which apparently runs Tutu absolutely flawlessly, but I somewhat doubt any two BG players have completely identical system specs.
- The vast majority of bug fixes won't interfere with mods, and most of those which do will be left out by the Tutu team.
- If you've never noticed any problems with BG, the bug fixes will be completely invisible to you, and not hinder you or your game in any way whatsoever.
- Including the bug fixes in Tutu will make life considerably easier for the Tutu developers.
I would say the creators of Tutu should not cater for the minority of players, especially not when it would make their jobs considerably more dfficult... and definitely not when that minority of players apparently won't even notice any difference with or without the bug fixes installed, but a great many other people most certainly WILL notice the removal of game crashes, lock-ups and other problems.
Posted by: SimDing0™
« on: January 31, 2005, 10:29:28 AM »Okay. Well... we do see a need, and I've explained that too. I suggest everyone waits until we post the list of what fixes get included/excluded.
Or carry on with semantic arguments here. Either's good.
[EDIT] Doing bugfixes for vanilla BG1 AFTER the conversion is hugely, hugely awkward and inefficient. The odd one is okay, but when you're doing hundreds of fixes on non-static strrefs, it rapidly becomes irritating. By all means, somebody else convert it, but I'm gonna do the fixes in the most efficient way.
Or carry on with semantic arguments here. Either's good.
[EDIT] Doing bugfixes for vanilla BG1 AFTER the conversion is hugely, hugely awkward and inefficient. The odd one is okay, but when you're doing hundreds of fixes on non-static strrefs, it rapidly becomes irritating. By all means, somebody else convert it, but I'm gonna do the fixes in the most efficient way.
Posted by: Ashara
« on: January 31, 2005, 10:26:45 AM »I was asked to explain my position and I explained it. I have nothing against other people applying bugfixes, tweaks, BP-BGT or sewage golem mod. What I do not like is being told what to install, especially if I do not see a need for it.
And the whole problem imo stems from nobody willing to do a TUTU compatible version of the fixes that can be safely applied AFTER the conversion.
And the whole problem imo stems from nobody willing to do a TUTU compatible version of the fixes that can be safely applied AFTER the conversion.