Posted by: Sim
« on: January 21, 2003, 10:29:16 AM »Quote
I'm really looking forward to seeing a Dragonlance version of Baldur's Gate though, that would be great......Have you checked out http://www.dragonlancetc.com?
Posted by: Bart
« on: January 21, 2003, 10:20:34 AM »Ok,
I'm interested in this discussion because Baldur's Gate II is my all time favorite game. I'm not a professional gamer....which seems like an important disclosure, I take my BG2 real serious but not too many other games. The point to that I guess is that, at this point, the people who still play Baldur's Gate 2 have filtered down to a pretty select group. The casual gamers are gone from the scene. So, a bit of powergaming is not exactly the wrong way for things to go. I have to confess, I get well into the powergaming aspect.....wanting as many badasses in my party as possible......i don't have any interest in the solo route....though i tried a 3 member and 4 member party one time. Yeah, it is ridiculous to have celestial fury and the holy avenger and that stuff....i have to confess that i've never had the staff of the magi....I must suck....
Anyway, I think the angry guy has a great point.....resting in a dungeon or even when there are time contingent pressures, supposedly, is totally lame. If you want to make the game harder, just make a rule that you only rest at the beginning or end of quests. Doesn't that sound reasonable? Of course, this doesn't work at all for me on the Senadal Quest for example, when you are so powerful that you can cut right through everything without hardly getting injured, so resting is not an issue.....i hardly cast any spells, even in the final sendai battle, except for breach and such like.
Some of the tactics mod encounters are very cool.....strangely, though, this time I defeated Mae'var easier than ever before...weird. The acid reflux Kensai I am weirded out by, because he damages my mage and then she can't cast spells....he hasn't kicked my ass, although he runs through the trapped locked door with the liches and then disappears.....he keeps saying its a bad day too, even though i barely injure him....weird. The lich in the Bridge District wasted me the first time with triple Wiltings...the next time he didn't do a thing before i killed him with azurdege.....again a middle ground would be nice. The random encounters....or not really random encounters....but reputation spawns for rep20 are really easy...for my level 12 party...i can basically just cast one or two spells and just wade through them..my biggest complaint about them is that picking up all their stuff to sell is too much work...yet irresistable, naturally...B)
I do think that some of the mod stuff asumes that every encounter is a one off, whereas the original game uses a wear you down a little strategy before a big one off encounter.
Especially the undeniable brilliant universal script.......sorry, but i don't want all those spells and potions used for every damn encounter! Can't there be a difficulty trigger....like say 75 percent hps?
On the buffs issue, the important thing is the spell duration.....stoneskin has such a long duration you can have it on almost all the time, but most spells you can't do this with....i usually set a contingency for stoneskin...enemy sighted, basic stuff. And sometimes if i can bothered, i have a spell trigger for some defensive spells.
I guess the other thing is....well, resist cheesiness....I am a very straightforward player......i tend to cast a few spells like greater malison or chaos, but apart from that i just use my fighters and attack the highest priority targets.....when i fought the guarded compound i used greater malison and then domination on the celestial fury fighter and detect illusions for the silly assassin, then got the celestial fury wielder to fight my battles...with my fighters helping out with the spell casters, of course....at the end i just got him to kill himself on the cleric's blade barrier.....ok....that's obviously cheese, right? Cause even a dominated warrior still wouldn't willing impale himself on a blade barrier. Sigh....its tough. I can't resist cheesy items like the shield of balduran....but agree that the ai for the beholders should be set to them not doing that....once they get damaged once, they aren't pyschic....but if the scripting doesn't allow that degree of specificity, never using the skill is sufficient...anyway, even if they don't use the talent, the suppressant effect is worth it.....geez, rambling now, its late in this part of the world.
Actually, I appreciate the weidu mods....the item up and tactics and ease of use and the baldurdash stuff....they represent the logical end of the game. The game's basically over for me now I guess, although I do have a bit of curiousity about the way it plays out with modifications, the mods make the point that its no longer really interesting as a game but instead as an intellectual exercise and surely there's something more interesting out there in that respect?
I'm really looking forward to seeing a Dragonlance version of Baldur's Gate though, that would be great......
Thanks for your time....
Bart
I'm interested in this discussion because Baldur's Gate II is my all time favorite game. I'm not a professional gamer....which seems like an important disclosure, I take my BG2 real serious but not too many other games. The point to that I guess is that, at this point, the people who still play Baldur's Gate 2 have filtered down to a pretty select group. The casual gamers are gone from the scene. So, a bit of powergaming is not exactly the wrong way for things to go. I have to confess, I get well into the powergaming aspect.....wanting as many badasses in my party as possible......i don't have any interest in the solo route....though i tried a 3 member and 4 member party one time. Yeah, it is ridiculous to have celestial fury and the holy avenger and that stuff....i have to confess that i've never had the staff of the magi....I must suck....
Anyway, I think the angry guy has a great point.....resting in a dungeon or even when there are time contingent pressures, supposedly, is totally lame. If you want to make the game harder, just make a rule that you only rest at the beginning or end of quests. Doesn't that sound reasonable? Of course, this doesn't work at all for me on the Senadal Quest for example, when you are so powerful that you can cut right through everything without hardly getting injured, so resting is not an issue.....i hardly cast any spells, even in the final sendai battle, except for breach and such like.
Some of the tactics mod encounters are very cool.....strangely, though, this time I defeated Mae'var easier than ever before...weird. The acid reflux Kensai I am weirded out by, because he damages my mage and then she can't cast spells....he hasn't kicked my ass, although he runs through the trapped locked door with the liches and then disappears.....he keeps saying its a bad day too, even though i barely injure him....weird. The lich in the Bridge District wasted me the first time with triple Wiltings...the next time he didn't do a thing before i killed him with azurdege.....again a middle ground would be nice. The random encounters....or not really random encounters....but reputation spawns for rep20 are really easy...for my level 12 party...i can basically just cast one or two spells and just wade through them..my biggest complaint about them is that picking up all their stuff to sell is too much work...yet irresistable, naturally...B)
I do think that some of the mod stuff asumes that every encounter is a one off, whereas the original game uses a wear you down a little strategy before a big one off encounter.
Especially the undeniable brilliant universal script.......sorry, but i don't want all those spells and potions used for every damn encounter! Can't there be a difficulty trigger....like say 75 percent hps?
On the buffs issue, the important thing is the spell duration.....stoneskin has such a long duration you can have it on almost all the time, but most spells you can't do this with....i usually set a contingency for stoneskin...enemy sighted, basic stuff. And sometimes if i can bothered, i have a spell trigger for some defensive spells.
I guess the other thing is....well, resist cheesiness....I am a very straightforward player......i tend to cast a few spells like greater malison or chaos, but apart from that i just use my fighters and attack the highest priority targets.....when i fought the guarded compound i used greater malison and then domination on the celestial fury fighter and detect illusions for the silly assassin, then got the celestial fury wielder to fight my battles...with my fighters helping out with the spell casters, of course....at the end i just got him to kill himself on the cleric's blade barrier.....ok....that's obviously cheese, right? Cause even a dominated warrior still wouldn't willing impale himself on a blade barrier. Sigh....its tough. I can't resist cheesy items like the shield of balduran....but agree that the ai for the beholders should be set to them not doing that....once they get damaged once, they aren't pyschic....but if the scripting doesn't allow that degree of specificity, never using the skill is sufficient...anyway, even if they don't use the talent, the suppressant effect is worth it.....geez, rambling now, its late in this part of the world.
Actually, I appreciate the weidu mods....the item up and tactics and ease of use and the baldurdash stuff....they represent the logical end of the game. The game's basically over for me now I guess, although I do have a bit of curiousity about the way it plays out with modifications, the mods make the point that its no longer really interesting as a game but instead as an intellectual exercise and surely there's something more interesting out there in that respect?
I'm really looking forward to seeing a Dragonlance version of Baldur's Gate though, that would be great......
Thanks for your time....
Bart
Posted by: Assassin
« on: January 08, 2003, 07:53:01 AM »Quote
So how do you normally play to do it ? You put your mind to work like that: I'll face kukoroisan soon, I better create X X and X conditions to make the battle favorable, better have some X number of scrolls with breach or other magic removal means, or better have my party memorize more spell removals that they would normally do, better sleep after elhan, better not get to a place that will take too much travel time or I'll loose my protections, or better have some triggers, and even better be conviced that the guy I'll see is powerful cause if I take him for a regular enemy I'll probably have a guy die just to notice how powerful he is.
Um... I don't need any special buffs to defeat him, with my Spellcaster a Sorcerer. I just need a couple of scrolls (as in spells to memorize with a high priority) which I buy as soon as possible (as in right out of the dungeon) and use them when he appears.
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Just one of the liches casted a lot of horrid wilts (but I think that could have been a bug), but even if he casted just a normal high lvl trigger of wilts, I would again say: Do you cast protection from magic energy before entering every abandoned building ? A normal party would really die there, period.
Then you either a) look at those pretty horrid wiltings and watch your characters die, or b ) realize that you're unequipped to deal with them, and back out of the building.
[!--EDIT|Assassin|Jan 8 2003, 03:54 PM--]
Posted by: foogla
« on: January 08, 2003, 07:32:05 AM »Quote
If you've got Tactics installed, check the Tactics folder on your hard drive for Hints and ReadMe files. It should be one of those. (Don't know what Wes calls the file anymore--when I read it, it was part of the Solaufein mod.)I found the Tactics ReadMe and the Kuro Hints file, no Kuro specific ReadMe. :/
I believe you though when you say he has undroppable items, and retract my statement.
*shakes his fist at Kuroisan, again*
Posted by: Hendryk
« on: January 08, 2003, 06:41:32 AM »I agree with the Angered One to the extent that having random encounters (cheesy or not) that are much harder than most of the official game encounters does tend to spoil the flavor of the game. Beyond that, I think the choice is a matter of taste rather than fact, so the argument can go on forever without resolution.
Cheers all.
Cheers all.
Posted by: AvatarofInsolence
« on: January 08, 2003, 04:27:05 AM »Been awhile, but I'm back. I'm beginning to wonder if you started this thread just for the conflict, angered. You have been quoting the exact same examples throughout, and consistently dismiss everything said to you by way of explaing things. Wes stated that alot of the stupid things that make chesseing a battle so easy is due to the scripting language. Bluntly put, there is no way around it, so deal with it. Powergaming is NOT neccesary to beat ANY of the improved encounters. As a moderately experienced tabletop DM, and a highly experienced tabletop player, I think that the improved encounters are more realistic than the Bioware default. The major limitation in BG2 is the lack of an active DM to prevent exploits. To my way of thinking, soloing BG2 IS powergaming, to an extent. If you have ever played D&D tabletop style, then you know that no sane DM would allow a weapon such as the Staff of Cheese into the hands of a player in his campaign, same goes for Carsomyr, Sanchudokku, Celestial Fury, the Cloak of Cheese, and too many more to name, without some kind of balancing factor, or extenuating circumstances. Yet when you solo BG2, not only can you get them, but you can have them all on one character! Most of Wes's mods simply take into account that you can, and probably will, have these semi-artifacts, and the encounters are scripted accordingly. I have come to define powergaming as a solo 14th level Kensai dualed to mage wearing the Robe of Vecna, Amulet of Power, a Ring of Gaxx, Boots of Speed, Cloak of mirroring,and Dual-wielding Sanchudokku with ANY other katana. Oops, that would be Kuriosan, wouldn't it? My point is, consolidate enough powerful magic into the hands of one character, and you ARE powergaming. The improved mods aren't a trap to make you cheese through battles, the point is to make you THINK when you play, as you would be forced to in any campaign I have ever, or will ever run at home. Any mod that makes you think about what you do is a good one in my book.
Posted by: The Angered One
« on: January 07, 2003, 10:16:57 PM »Again, if you sleep very often, I think its cheesy.
I know you were being sarcastic assassin, I tried the same.
And yes I normally defeat all the improved guys, but sometimes they're really hard.
Like when I just exited jonny dungeon, having the improved encounters very quick at me is a somewhat difficult task.
But then after u beat then a couple 2-3 times, it becomes easy. Then I figure these guys should make more sense, cause well, the first time you fight they = hard, the subsequent ones = makes for nice challenges, after a while = they just give you xp, itens and money (what greatly contributes to make the game even more easy what I find not fun and something that should by all means be avoided)
So I would say: cause they to fight you only when they make for a nice challenge and erase the rest, it gets boring along with some other nasty things.
Again that I have no problem with these guys being strong, but I find somewhat very annoying that they're inexplicable just imune to some effects.
Just one of the liches casted a lot of horrid wilts (but I think that could have been a bug), but even if he casted just a normal high lvl trigger of wilts, I would again say: Do you cast protection from magic energy before entering every abandoned building ? A normal party would really die there, period.
kokuroisan (or whatever his name actually his). I did beat him a couple times, but then again there is some times when he is unbeatable (mostly when you go get imoen very quick), I mean, you get to Elhan, then go to say the docks.. traveling time takes place.. get there with whatsoever no protections, its actually quite hard to beat him.
What I use this examples for ? To say the mods are unbalanced here and there making supermans, they're kind of frustrating.
Given the right circunstances, the mods are all quite easy, but then you're supposed to go meta-gaming to create these favorable circunstances:
Say you go to rescue Imoen quick, you get to Elhan well.. at 50% percent off your rope, at this point there must be hundreds of things you want to do in Athkatla, maybe you rest, I wouldnt since I dont think a wilderness encounter will kill my "beggining to be powerful" party, businnes in Athkatla takes precedence, you go there, meet drizzt, "hey! hi! see you later!" get there, no protections cause of traveling time, even if you did sleep, do you have the means to remove a real massive lot of protections and survive a real nice bunch of strong blows ? I bet almost anyone would a have a GREAT NIGHTMARE at this point.
So how do you normally play to do it ? You put your mind to work like that: I'll face kukoroisan soon, I better create X X and X conditions to make the battle favorable, better have some X number of scrolls with breach or other magic removal means, or better have my party memorize more spell removals that they would normally do, better sleep after elhan, better not get to a place that will take too much travel time or I'll loose my protections, or better have some triggers, and even better be conviced that the guy I'll see is powerful cause if I take him for a regular enemy I'll probably have a guy die just to notice how powerful he is.
You put your mind to work in X X X method a real lot of times in the mods, kuko was just an example.
Thats meta gaming and thats a delusional way to be a powergamer.
I normally would mess myself in the nightmare part, then its the the time I get angered and came here to be tortured by all of you lol
I think the mods are at fault when they force to use this kind of thinking toavoid put yourself in serious trouble, trowing all the odds against you and creating a superman that will add a very not-fun part in your game.
If they had some sorts of checks to see if the battles will make for a good challenge or if they'll actually be a supermans, and wait a little while more if hes in the super lvl right now, that would solve the problems.
Wes: I see your points concerning the engine not alowing this and that, but u are aware i know nothing about ie engine (best have kept my mouth shut ? :x )
If theres something I dont think is that you guys are in need of more creative minds, its very easy to notice how good you guys are since the dialogs are always very interesting. (But I do believe you guys tend to get some nasty ways to do things sometimes )
About not installing it, well you're around 85 percent correctly
No I'm not good about chess, but u better believe I'm damn good in BG
Since you say so.. could you make a movie with a newly created group of yours that actually try to kill Ily groups without cheesing or powergaming ?
I bet I would laugh myself to death watching it (hey dont mind I'm just kidding
)
That script of his group, well actually the part of the script that makes all of them come to you at the same time (except for the neofit) even if you try to lure just one, was something I really admired.
Hmm I dont think I'm being hated all that much.. can be wrong at that too..
Cheers.
I know you were being sarcastic assassin, I tried the same.
And yes I normally defeat all the improved guys, but sometimes they're really hard.
Like when I just exited jonny dungeon, having the improved encounters very quick at me is a somewhat difficult task.
But then after u beat then a couple 2-3 times, it becomes easy. Then I figure these guys should make more sense, cause well, the first time you fight they = hard, the subsequent ones = makes for nice challenges, after a while = they just give you xp, itens and money (what greatly contributes to make the game even more easy what I find not fun and something that should by all means be avoided)
So I would say: cause they to fight you only when they make for a nice challenge and erase the rest, it gets boring along with some other nasty things.
Again that I have no problem with these guys being strong, but I find somewhat very annoying that they're inexplicable just imune to some effects.
Just one of the liches casted a lot of horrid wilts (but I think that could have been a bug), but even if he casted just a normal high lvl trigger of wilts, I would again say: Do you cast protection from magic energy before entering every abandoned building ? A normal party would really die there, period.
kokuroisan (or whatever his name actually his). I did beat him a couple times, but then again there is some times when he is unbeatable (mostly when you go get imoen very quick), I mean, you get to Elhan, then go to say the docks.. traveling time takes place.. get there with whatsoever no protections, its actually quite hard to beat him.
What I use this examples for ? To say the mods are unbalanced here and there making supermans, they're kind of frustrating.
Given the right circunstances, the mods are all quite easy, but then you're supposed to go meta-gaming to create these favorable circunstances:
Say you go to rescue Imoen quick, you get to Elhan well.. at 50% percent off your rope, at this point there must be hundreds of things you want to do in Athkatla, maybe you rest, I wouldnt since I dont think a wilderness encounter will kill my "beggining to be powerful" party, businnes in Athkatla takes precedence, you go there, meet drizzt, "hey! hi! see you later!" get there, no protections cause of traveling time, even if you did sleep, do you have the means to remove a real massive lot of protections and survive a real nice bunch of strong blows ? I bet almost anyone would a have a GREAT NIGHTMARE at this point.
So how do you normally play to do it ? You put your mind to work like that: I'll face kukoroisan soon, I better create X X and X conditions to make the battle favorable, better have some X number of scrolls with breach or other magic removal means, or better have my party memorize more spell removals that they would normally do, better sleep after elhan, better not get to a place that will take too much travel time or I'll loose my protections, or better have some triggers, and even better be conviced that the guy I'll see is powerful cause if I take him for a regular enemy I'll probably have a guy die just to notice how powerful he is.
You put your mind to work in X X X method a real lot of times in the mods, kuko was just an example.
Thats meta gaming and thats a delusional way to be a powergamer.
I normally would mess myself in the nightmare part, then its the the time I get angered and came here to be tortured by all of you lol
I think the mods are at fault when they force to use this kind of thinking toavoid put yourself in serious trouble, trowing all the odds against you and creating a superman that will add a very not-fun part in your game.
If they had some sorts of checks to see if the battles will make for a good challenge or if they'll actually be a supermans, and wait a little while more if hes in the super lvl right now, that would solve the problems.
Wes: I see your points concerning the engine not alowing this and that, but u are aware i know nothing about ie engine (best have kept my mouth shut ? :x )
If theres something I dont think is that you guys are in need of more creative minds, its very easy to notice how good you guys are since the dialogs are always very interesting. (But I do believe you guys tend to get some nasty ways to do things sometimes
)About not installing it, well you're around 85 percent correctly
No I'm not good about chess, but u better believe I'm damn good in BG
Since you say so.. could you make a movie with a newly created group of yours that actually try to kill Ily groups without cheesing or powergaming ?
I bet I would laugh myself to death watching it (hey dont mind I'm just kidding
)That script of his group, well actually the part of the script that makes all of them come to you at the same time (except for the neofit) even if you try to lure just one, was something I really admired.
Hmm I dont think I'm being hated all that much.. can be wrong at that too..
Cheers.
Posted by: Kish
« on: January 07, 2003, 10:03:04 PM »If you've got Tactics installed, check the Tactics folder on your hard drive for Hints and ReadMe files. It should be one of those. (Don't know what Wes calls the file anymore--when I read it, it was part of the Solaufein mod.)
Posted by: foogla
« on: January 07, 2003, 06:46:09 PM »Quote
Where do I get that?QuoteKuro actually drops anything he uses....
I'm afraid you're wrong. Check the ReadMe. (Not the main Tactics ReadMe, the Kuroisan ReadMe.)
Posted by: Assassin
« on: January 07, 2003, 04:25:37 PM »Quote
did write that for assassin since he seemed to take me for a newb so I took him for that kind of guy that only memorizes the most apealing spells all the time and dont even know what a wizard eye for. (except for making the demilich loose a lot of time trying to unsussccefuly affect the eye with his abilities)
Cloudkill is normaly ok, what happened to the sumonings ? Anyway you just need to have a good notion of the area it wil affect and put your group at the edge forcing the enemy to stay inside, and its not cheesy too, just making the better use.
I was being sarcastic about the Breach thing... -_-;; I know what a Wizard Eye is for. Cloudkill is fine, you just have to watch the hit dice your summoned creatures have. It's not Death Fog.
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You never used chaosYou dont know what you're missing, everytime you find another group, just chaos is half the battle won.
Who doesnt heal ? But if u can do that with a mage you're beyond my ken
So you never run out of rod ahn ?
Meh... My playing style. You play differently than I do. Well, I don't always solo Mage... And I do keep a Druid or Cleric around. Potions are always useful too.
I never thought that people would think that rest is cheesy...
About the Otuygh regenerating... it says something like: "Regeneration: Otyugh" in the text below.
Quote
Well there are also another lot of variables in styles, say that if you sleep to get your spells and charge itens, and after that you just starting casting spells and using the charges like if theres no tomorrow, you're probably going to get to the end of the rope sooner. But theres no point in try to find balance this way. I try to keep my spells and itens til the moment they appear to be most needed (and I believe you must do the same), not go using it all right away to then sleep again and make the game a free party.
Okay. Some people also like to buff to the brim. I don't. So what? I horde potions, scrolls, and other limited charge stuff. Some people don't.
Posted by: Kish
« on: January 07, 2003, 02:50:20 PM »Quote
Kuro actually drops anything he uses....
I'm afraid you're wrong. Check the ReadMe. (Not the main Tactics ReadMe, the Kuroisan ReadMe.)
Posted by: Sim
« on: January 07, 2003, 10:49:52 AM »Quote
For example, you cannot even reliably instruct your characters to "walk out of a cloudkill"I actually started a discussion on this here...
Posted by: weimer
« on: January 07, 2003, 10:12:28 AM »Quote
Is all that you guys do a monument to powergaming ?The tactics mod is, not surprisingly, a paean to tactics. You do not need min-maxed characteres who forsake roleplaying and abuse OOC knowledge in order to defeat it. You can, in fact, defeat everything with normal characters who make half-decent tactical and strategic decisions.
However, it tends to be *easier* for new players to defeat the tactics mod components with min-maxed "powergaming" characters. Thus many people think that the only way to defeat these challenges is to forsake roleplaying. This is not the case. However, it may be true for any particular person. For example, I'm sure that my mother would only be able to defeat the tactics challenges with divine intervention or rampant cheating.
Let's make an analogy with chess. Imagine that you have spent most of your life playing chess in coffeehouses and that you're half decent against such opponents. The tactics mod is like playing against a smarter opponent (often) or a stupid one that starts with an extra bishop (more rare). In both cases you could win easily by starting with an extra queen (= powergaming, min-maxing). And for a time, that may be the only way you can figure out that works for you. However, it is quite possible to win the chess games just using the default starting pieces (= no powergaming) ... but that requires that you know a bit about chess, strategy and tactics.
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Sincerily, theres no other way do get around these mods without doing this kind of thing (or worse ones),
Since it only takes one example to prove an existential claim, I'll posit myself. I can, in fact, defeat all of the tactics mod challenges in SoA without powergaming and without reloading. I have done it exactly once. :-)
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then you take advantage of your preparions,
You may not have heard my "seatbelt" theory of the universe, but I don't consider preparations to be powergaming. If I were a mage in an AD&D world, I would walk around with stoneskin on *all the time*. Don't leave home without it! Pro-Fire, Pro-Cold, Strength, Pro-Fear -- these are like the seatbelt in your car. If you don't take a few seconds to put it on, don't be surprised.
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Game resumes to: Endless re-do same parts of the game nerfing and powergaming or waiting for the tides of luck to start running at your side (what happens 1 at each X times), sleeping sleeping sleeping and then sleeping again to be protected from everything and to weave a new way of delivering massive power to the superman next corner.
If that's what the tactics mod forces your game to be like ... uninstall it. It does not force me to endlessly re-do the same parts of the game. It does not force me to sleep all the time (moreso with mages than with melee chars, as always). Heck, I even avoid tactics that only win one time in X (e.g., I almost always avoid finger of death and whatnot).
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What about some nice things like enemis wich arent super or mini-supermans but know useful stuff like how to open doors,
Wouldn't that be great? Essentially, it can't be done in BG2. For bonus points, name 6 people not in your party who open a door in classic BG2. Even the game designers didn't do it.
One thing you may not be aware of is that the scripting language used in IE games (and this is my reasoned opinion as a programming languages researcher) is inadequate for non-trivial tasks. Mod-makers run into this wall all the time. The language is just not expressive enough.
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Whats more.. one that cause they to chase you between areas and regain the spells they just casted if you tried to cheat them..
Lovely ideas. Both of these basically cannot be done. Scripting language is too weak.
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Whats more.. one that cause they to chase you between areas and regain the spells they just casted if you tried to cheat them..
Lovely ideas. Both of these basically cannot be done. Scripting language is too weak. For example, you cannot even reliably instruct your characters to "walk out of a cloudkill" or "circle around and surround person X" or "walk forward in a defensive formation that keeps the mage in the center".
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probably dozens of things that my limited mind cant see and could make for a better game without the adition of
And they are all more or less impossible to do in the Infinity Engine Scripting Language. Trust me. I have grappled with this issue many times.
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right where they where. Cant him and his group start hunting with the true seeing the thing they think they saw ?
Not in the Infinity Engine scripting language. Basically, the only movement command given is "walk toward this enemy". You can't even say "walk halfway" or "walk 20 feet" or "explore the local area". Sorry. The language is just not expressive enough.
I like the tactics mod. In another world, however, it would be *so much better*. I agree with you -- most of the improvements are similar. It's not that we lack imagination. We can see the flaws as starkly as you can. It's that our hands are tied. We cannot release a mod where enemies intelligently search around for you or walk to the edge of a cloud or avoid throwing a fireball if it will heat someone on their team or open any door they come to or split their multiple-attacks-per-round up intelligently or ...
... because the language is too weak. We just can't do it.
So what you see is the best that we can do with the materials that we are given.
I don't want to spend all of my time making excuses here. Ultimately, if you don't enjoy it you can uninstall it. I wish we could make the sort of mod that you're asking for. I do not believe that we can.
Posted by: foogla
« on: January 07, 2003, 08:16:03 AM »The Angered One: I think you should add "Run away from battles" to your list of cheesy things to (not) do, since you can actually change your tactics if you know what's coming. And you can also rest, how cheesy! :x
Also yes Kuro has Spell Turning and a Spell Trap (read from a scroll I assume) active.
[!--EDIT|foogla|Jan 7 2003, 04:17 PM--]
Also yes Kuro has Spell Turning and a Spell Trap (read from a scroll I assume) active.
[!--EDIT|foogla|Jan 7 2003, 04:17 PM--]
Posted by: Assassin
« on: January 07, 2003, 07:55:49 AM »[/quote] Are u sure ? Try making a wizard eye, then look the area a bit with it.. after a while it will dissapear, then you can make another, its as simple as that
I dont know WHY you did assume that I was saying make 10 wizard eyes at the same time.. puzzles me. But then I dont think you're the kind of guy that uses it much anyway. Do you just assume your guys know everything that is in the area ? Or you get a cloaked char to go scouting ? In case you do that, correct me if I'm wrong but I bet you only do that when its convenient for you. (like not in places where creatures can see as per the demon plane in the planar sphere) [/quote]
Actually, I either use Farsight or an Invisible character to do the scouting ever since I got the patch for the worst encounters. It actually forces me to scout.
I've fought them; what are you talking about? There are two Liches in there, however, and both of them using a Chain Contingency would allow 6 Horrid Wilting.
That's why you have the ability to reload, or to check inside the building, and dash outside. Both of those are very possible to do, and neither is really that imbalancing.
Or maybe he just has the Boots of Speed? Maybe he has a Spell Turning on?
Um... higher levels means toughers tactical encounters. You just have to grit your teeth and bash through.
I'll reply more in-depth later, but now, I got to go to school.
I dont know WHY you did assume that I was saying make 10 wizard eyes at the same time.. puzzles me. But then I dont think you're the kind of guy that uses it much anyway. Do you just assume your guys know everything that is in the area ? Or you get a cloaked char to go scouting ? In case you do that, correct me if I'm wrong but I bet you only do that when its convenient for you. (like not in places where creatures can see as per the demon plane in the planar sphere) [/quote]
Actually, I either use Farsight or an Invisible character to do the scouting ever since I got the patch for the worst encounters. It actually forces me to scout.
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I've seen some with a really high amount of spells, there was one of the kangaxx guardians that did cast a trigger with had around a dozen horrid whiltings at me. Then even if I had protection from magic energy must also had some 60 hps or I would get killed before the protection could take effect (dont know why..), and again, its cheesy to have a guy cast a chain like that, forcing you to have a protection from magic energy before enter the building.. What I mean by it: Do you always cast protection from magic energy before entering an abandoned building ? Of course no, a real party would die there time and again.
I've fought them; what are you talking about? There are two Liches in there, however, and both of them using a Chain Contingency would allow 6 Horrid Wilting.
That's why you have the ability to reload, or to check inside the building, and dash outside. Both of those are very possible to do, and neither is really that imbalancing.
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Maybe theres a new version for him then, The one I played (around what.. 4 months ago I guess), his imp haste would never wear off (that batlle in the docks took around an hour, I'm not kidding), he had much more protections to recast than I could remove (unless I based my entire spell repertory from abjuration, but again why would a normal party do it, not that would help much anyway, he can kill the mage just with the acid damage that comes back from him).
If he has a cloack of mirroring, off course I want it. Alas.. my cloack of mirroring is the ToB one (and I thank god for the changes they made to the cloak in ToB, the regular SoA cloak makes the spellcasters look like children whats not nice at all), but then I do believe his cloak is the SoA cloak, not the ToB one.
Or maybe he just has the Boots of Speed? Maybe he has a Spell Turning on?
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I'm not saying they're impossible, and thanks but I think that after some time playing this I know how to win very well and quick when its needed to (heck I knew that by the second time I played), the thing is that half of the times in the random encounters (speally in the first and second time you meet them, they have more lvls than you, can give more damage, have better itens, and even greater healing potions, at least mine did) YOU'VE TO BE CHEESE with them unless you're obviously in a lvl much higher than they're. I dislike being forced to win by imoral means IE powergaming.
Um... higher levels means toughers tactical encounters. You just have to grit your teeth and bash through.
I'll reply more in-depth later, but now, I got to go to school.