Author Topic: More than Seriously  (Read 8046 times)

The Angered One

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More than Seriously
« on: January 06, 2003, 02:52:02 AM »
This post is intended to the makers of some mods (most the ones in the tactics).

And well, that is it, I'm going to be hated really quick so breath ten times before reading :)


Is all that you guys do a monument to powergaming ?

After the Kensay one army man, the you must die random encounters, the mages casting horrid wilting in chains, this list goes on and on... and now I tried that improved Ilyich, again same deception. Sleep in Irenicus dungeon ? With lots of thieves ? Wouldnt they kill your entire group before u could wake up ? I mean really sleep ? And more than one time ? Are u sure ? Dont you think that even HIS monsters have the guts to it ?

I mean what do you do in the game with these mods ? You nerf battles. That's what it is about, nerfing and powergaming, abusing the cpu stupidity and using every non-ethic, imoral and nonsenseful mean in the manual again and again to after that re-do it in a everytime greater scale, oh and with more loads than you can count inbetween.

Sincerily, theres no other way do get around these mods without doing this kind of thing (or worse ones), its all very simple:

- Superman (or groups of superman) attacks you, if its the 1st time you're presented to this singular superman, u'll die, then reload and start "meta-gaming" (what is already a less tasteful kind of gaming) in preparations to meet mr. superman and his fan club. Superman starts doing superman kind of stuff (things you normally cant do or ain't much likely to have a chance to do in the game), then you take advantage of your preparions, deliver massive power if u can (case u cant better start crossing all the fingers you have), see what happens, if massive power failed starts the orgy of cpu deceiving and nerfing and whatever else u can think of. Thats when its not the case of powerful characters  (a 10th lvl char is a very powerful to me atleast) dying in 2 blows as if he was a squirrel or something or the entire game resuming itself to a melee feast with all the superman and their k3w1 scripts and habilities delivering death in epic proportions.

Game resumes to: Endless re-do same parts of the game nerfing and powergaming or waiting for the tides of luck to start running at your side (what happens 1 at each X times), sleeping sleeping sleeping and then sleeping again to be protected from everything and to weave a new way of delivering massive power to the superman next corner.

I dont mean to offend anyone or anything, right in the other hand I mean to give a good laugh or even be laughed at ;)

But is this really indeed the last we can get from BG ?

What about some nice things like enemis wich arent super or mini-supermans but know useful stuff like how to open doors, or a useful script thats causes all nearby enemis to attack you if one of their group is attacked (those 2 would be really useful, eliminates the major cpu faults, would make for nice and beliveable battles).

Whats more.. one that cause they to chase you between areas and regain the spells they just casted if you tried to cheat them.. Or just some smart groups of enemis that know a little of strategy and how to positions themselves without the need to be all beefed up with the world of hps and coming to melee you to pieces. I dont know theres probably dozens of things that my limited mind cant see and could make for a better game without the adition of all the improved tough guys we see these days where the only point is to kill or be killed (or maybe just majorly F****D) in instants.

Another thing - Why would a mage and his group use true seeing and then stand there, yes exactly there right where they where. Cant him and his group start hunting with the true seeing the thing they think they saw ?

Have this post been too damn big ? Are u guys tired? Does anybody wants to deliberate ? Am I still talking to someone ?

Cheers.
                   

Renmauzo

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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2003, 03:03:49 AM »
Its all a test to see who can out cheese who, if you look at the tips for most of these youll see people suggesting exploiting engine weaknesses and whatnot.   Then if you play the mods youll see kensai mages with unlimited prot scrolls and so on.  Personally, I find it tiresome; to each his own though.

An example of this can be found as close as the seriously... thread.

Quote
I haven't tried the Thieves except with a solo sorc, but here are some tricks you may find useful:

1) BG2 enemies can't deal with doors. Go to a room you never want to visit again, close the door and rest there. When they spawn, run out and shut the door behind yourself (this takes some care - feed them a summons if you must). This is cheesy, but so is spawning on rest every time, even in a closed room.

2) Imoen's belt makes her immune to a bunch of things, including level drain, fear, death and I think paralysis as well. If she is Stoneskinned, they can't do very much to her (except Cone of Cold). Don't send your entire party to where you know a thief lies in waiting - send Immy alone and let her take the initial Wand and backstab. Just make sure she has enough HP to survive Cone of Cold.

Quote
As for the Wand of Para, Wes is using the Tanari Death Gaze paralysation spell. It's nasty.
                   



[!--EDIT|Renmauzo|Jan 6 2003, 11:05 AM--]

The Angered One

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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2003, 03:11:05 AM »
Thats exactly what I mean :)

To each his own very true indeed ;)

I did write that only hoping to inspire a modder out of the cheese circle of gaming, wich seems to be the only one there is these days.. sad.

Very tiresome and often a headdache to play IMO.
                   

Sim

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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2003, 03:24:36 AM »
Unfortunately, it's awkward to have enemies deal with doors effectively in the IE. It can be done, but in a very limited way; I'm not going to post a load of blocks to illustrate, but in general you have to tailor each encounter specifically to the area it's in to have doors used effectively.

I agree with you in part, and when I write AI, I always try to keep it realistic and fair (it's becoming increasingly popular to have enemies force-cast spells instead of just using the normal casting system). I also agree that it's far better to have good AI than immensely powerful and cheesy creatures. However, while this would have been OK in BG1, it is awkward in BG2 and ToB because the player becomes so powerful; in the end, the game seems almost designed for powergaming... however, I think almost all TCs in progress now are intended to start from level 1, which will hopefully set things right.                    

The Angered One

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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2003, 03:40:46 AM »
I personally like the Improved guys from ToB (Gromnir, Illasera, etc..), they're hard but hardly supermans (they could even bee a very wee litle bit easier IMO, then they would be perfect, specially demogorgon wich almost screams like "u must be cheese to kill me")

But I also understand in part what u say, just have in mind I'm completely newbie to script concepts (did already notice huh :) ? )

Cant u instead cause a door that was opened to not close ? Or not close if X creature has noticed any of your party ? More than half the creatures in the game wouldnt bother open a door anyway they would just break tru it.

I believe it was in Epic Endeavours that all doors just were always open, but that was a completely different style of game tou.                    

Renmauzo

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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2003, 03:45:45 AM »
Quote
I personally like the Improved guys from ToB (Gromnir, Illasera, etc..), they're hard but hardly supermans (they could even bee a very wee litle bit easier IMO, then they would be perfect, specially demogorgon wich almost screams like "u must be cheese to kill me")

But I also understand in part what u say, just have in mind I'm completely newbie to script concepts (did already notice huh :) ? )

Cant u instead cause a door that was opened to not close ? Or not close if X creature has noticed any of your party ? More than half the creatures in the game wouldnt bother open a door anyway they would just break tru it.

I believe it was in Epic Endeavours that all doors just were always open, but that was a completely different style of game tou.
                   ..Or not even worry about it--if a player wants to 'sploit doors to make a battle easy--theyre only cheating themselves.  I too, wish more mods were focused on dialogue and less on the never ending circle of one-upsmanship.  Luckily, there are quite a few coming up--most notably the Imoen relationship :)                    

The Angered One

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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2003, 03:48:38 AM »
I mean, I like the ToB improved guys from the original Ascension, havent played the weidu version yet (have it installed this time but I'm far away from ToB)

Has weimer made the bunch even more tough ?
                   

Renmauzo

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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2003, 03:51:48 AM »
Quote
I mean, I like the ToB improved guys from the original Ascension, havent played the weidu version yet (have it installed this time but I'm far away from ToB)

Has weimer made the bunch even more tough ?
                   Im pretty sure its identical to the original version.                      

The Angered One

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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2003, 04:01:55 AM »
Nice to Know :D

It would be a pain to remove it.

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number
~TASHIA.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-SOLAUFEIN.TP2~ #0 #0
~KELSEY.TP2~ #0 #0
~KELSEY.TP2~ #0 #1
~KELSEY.TP2~ #0 #2
~SETUP-KELSEYTOB.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-KELSEYTOB.TP2~ #0 #1
~SETUP-KELSEYTOB.TP2~ #0 #5
~SETUP-VALEN.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-GOO.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-DUNGEONBEGONE.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #12
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #13
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #18
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #20
~IMOEN.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #3
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #4
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #5
~SETUP-GBTHFKP.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-HELL.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-ITEMUPGRADE.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-ITEMUPGRADE.TP2~ #0 #1
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #1
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #8
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #9
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #11
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #12
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #14
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #15
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #19
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #20
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #22
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #24
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #25
~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ #0 #0
~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ #0 #1
~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ #0 #2
~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ #0 #3
~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ #0 #4
~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ #0 #5
~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ #0 #6
~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ #0 #7

Its way there in the half part.

I've all that installed with a lor of non-weidu on top of TDD ;)

Hey if you like a dialogue intensive kind of thing try Tortured Souls, its very good in that, after the initial headache its gives for being a somewhat big module and having some conflicts with other smaller mods its really worth playing.

I'll try that Big Picture from Horred that Plague as son as I can download SoS.. have u heard of BP ?
                   

Sim

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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2003, 04:21:27 AM »
I did a bit of work with Horred on enhancing the enemy AI for the BP, and I think I can safely say that while it's very good, it's also not too cheesy. The only thing you might consider bad (which I don't) is that some new creature abilities, such as drow innate abilities, have been included.                    

Renmauzo

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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2003, 04:23:59 AM »
Whats BP                    

The Angered One

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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2003, 04:32:32 AM »
BP is a mod in the making that will allow you to play SoA, ToB, Tortured Sould, Shadows over Soubar and The Darkest Day along with (probably in the near future, all the other majority of weidu and non-weidu mods)

Looks cool huh ? I hope they finish this monster.

Sim, innate ? No problem bring it on lol :)

As long as they're not anything equal or beyond the improved from ToB I can face the nastys how many time needed with a Wide smile.

Hey good work there, wish you all the luck !

                   

Renmauzo

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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2003, 04:42:04 AM »
Quote
BP is a mod in the making that will allow you to play SoA, ToB, Tortured Sould, Shadows over Soubar and The Darkest Day along with (probably in the near future, all the other majority of weidu and non-weidu mods)

Looks cool huh ? I hope they finish this monster.

Sim, innate ? No problem bring it on lol :)

As long as they're not anything equal or beyond the improved from ToB I can face the nastys how many time needed with a Wide smile.

Hey good work there, wish you all the luck !
                   Hmm, when will BP come out?  Ive been reluctant to get those mods because of compatibility issues.                    

hlidskialf

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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2003, 05:03:10 AM »
Horred's got a public beta out for testing right now. The final release is to be ready any time. (About a week ago he was saying 2 or so weeks.) BP stands for "Big Picture". One of the things we talked horred into creating was various random attack "styles" in the enemy AI. So that you're low AC mage isn't always the priority target and such. There's several threads in the Tortured Souls Forum at TeamBG discussing what it's all about. Since the site's down right now I can't post a link, but check it out later if you're interested. ;)

Edit: BTW, the reasons doors are such a headache is that EVERY door has to be individually identified in scripts. You can't just check for a door status and have the cre unlock it, you have to specify which door by name. Since each one's different this is a royal pain. There was someone a while ago, King Dutka I believe (sp?) who actually scripted this for his "summon thief" spell in order to have the thief be able to unlock doors, chests, etc... (And I can't post a link to that either at the moment.) He found it to be a frustrating enterprise.                    



[!--EDIT|hlidskialf|Jan 6 2003, 03:06 AM--]

mstaley007

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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2003, 10:28:24 AM »
I can see The Angered One's points on this, but I think alot of Weimar's AI's and encounters actually aren't all that cheesy. He uses really good AI scripting and proper use of spell protections so the enemies tend to be smarter than the player in this area. They're not cheap exploits. Other things like smarter mages actually having spell protections already equipped or Dragon's a bit smarter I don't think are his, but none the less useful.

Personally I didn't even find the Illyich encounter terribly difficult, though getting there was not that fun. I agree with Weimar that the people in charge of protecting the dungeon in general and an artifact level item in specific should be powerful...though summoning that Celestial Being was a bit much. Just magic missile or an arrow against the Priest any time he starts casting, use the quarter staff +1 and Shillegah against the Jailkeeper Golem, other magic against the demon and the rest die normally. It's a very close thing - you barely have enough magic and scrolls to handle it which is good. Good summoning strategy is important and the Woodland Beings are always key to my strategy at least.

My point is many of these encounters can be beat without cheese. Many are certainly incredibly difficult, but most of us have played the game through so many times...that is what keeps us coming back. A challenge. If enemies are casting a chain of horrid wilting on sight out of a chain contingency, more power to them. You can cast a couple things yourself for protection.

Mike                    

Sim

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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2003, 10:31:02 AM »
Quote
One of the things we talked horred into creating was various random attack "styles" in the enemy AI.
Hehe... one of the things you talked him into, you mean :P

Actually, I didn't find naming doors that much of a problem; for a start, names tend to be reused. You just need a huge OR block with all the door names in.
I had a discussion with KR on the matter, though, and it appears the problem comes in two places: firstly, if the creature cannot reach a door (if the door's badly positioned, for example), or secondly, in deciding which doors are appropriate to open. Sadly, you can't take advantage of IE game pathfinding in scripts to determine which doors to open to reach the player.                    

Offline jcompton

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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2003, 11:14:00 AM »
Quote
I can see The Angered One's points on this, but I think alot of Weimar's AI's and encounters actually aren't all that cheesy. He uses really good AI scripting and proper use of spell protections so the enemies tend to be smarter than the player in this area. They're not cheap exploits. Other things like smarter mages actually having spell protections already equipped or Dragon's a bit smarter I don't think are his, but none the less useful.

                   For starters, Tactics is literally a mixed bag as several different people with different notions of how monsters should fight contributed encounters to it.

That said, I don't think there's a lot of force-casting or anything like that going on--except for what would be pre-encounter buffing if the game actually allowed for that, which it doesn't. Weimer's baddies walk around with the same protections he puts on his PCs, and by extension, expects that YOU have put on YOUR PCs.

Quote
Personally I didn't even find the Illyich encounter terribly difficult, though getting there was not that fun. I agree with Weimar that the people in charge of protecting the dungeon in general and an artifact level item in specific should be powerful...though summoning that Celestial Being was a bit much.

...and once again you guys forgot to read the README and note that Improved Ilyich is, ultimately, a joke. :)
                   
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mstaley007

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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2003, 01:16:13 PM »
What was the joke again?                    

Kiki

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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2003, 02:48:33 PM »
The joke started when Jason wrote a fake interchange between a disgruntled user of an imaginary Improved Ilyich mod and the mod's purported creator, Les Reimer. (I think the whole little dialogue is in the readme.) It poked fun at the difficulty of Weimer's other mods. In retaliation, Weimer actually implemented it. Hence the appearance of the deva.                    

Althernai

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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2003, 03:37:38 PM »
Quote
Is all that you guys do a monument to powergaming ?

No. There is also poetry. See the Sola fan club on the other forum for details. :)

Quote
I mean what do you do in the game with these mods ? You nerf battles. That's what it is about, nerfing and powergaming, abusing the cpu stupidity and using every non-ethic, imoral and nonsenseful mean in the manual again and again to after that re-do it in a everytime greater scale, oh and with more loads than you can count inbetween.

Sincerily, theres no other way do get around these mods without doing this kind of thing (or worse ones), its all very simple:

This isn't true in most cases. You do not have to abuse engine limitations unless you are doing something that was not intended by the makers of the game. BG2 was meant to be played with a party - when you solo, you need to use some cheese (hence the abuse of doors, illusions, Planetars, etc.). If you have a well balanced party, most mods can be done without cheese altogether and the rest only require knowledge of what is ahead (note that this is true of the original BG2 as well - I have never met anyone who got through all of BG2 without ever reloading or restarting from the beginning).


Quote
Superman starts doing superman kind of stuff (things you normally cant do or ain't much likely to have a chance to do in the game), then you take advantage of your preparions, deliver massive power if u can (case u cant better start crossing all the fingers you have), see what happens, if massive power failed starts the orgy of cpu deceiving and nerfing and whatever else u can think of.

There are very few enemies of this kind in any mods. You can do what most enemies do - you just hadn't thought of doing it. There are notable exceptions (Improved Bodhi and Irenicus, the Eclipse, Uber-Telefield Liches, etc.) but most of the time the AI is legitimate.

Quote
What about some nice things like enemis wich arent super or mini-supermans but know useful stuff like how to open doors, or a useful script thats causes all nearby enemis to attack you if one of their group is attacked (those 2 would be really useful, eliminates the major cpu faults, would make for nice and beliveable battles).

Whats more.. one that cause they to chase you between areas and regain the spells they just casted if you tried to cheat them.. Or just some smart groups of enemis that know a little of strategy and how to positions themselves without the need to be all beefed up with the world of hps and coming to melee you to pieces.

So is that what brought this on? My comment about doors? :lol:

Two interesting points:

1) If enemies were not powerful, nobody would care if they could deal with doors or chase you across areas or whatnot. You would kill them without ever knowing what they can do. Furthermore, like I said above, cheese is usually not necessary unless you are doing something peculiar.

2) If enemies were to use a little strategy, the game would not be interesting because you would always lose. In almost all cases, you win battles by fighting a few creatures at a time - and only 1 big bad boss at a time. If you were actually mobbed, you would lose.

For example, look at the Mind Flayer dungeon. Mind Flayers communicate telepathically (they would know what happened) and they are supposed to be very intelligent. So, once they realize they are being slaughtered, what do they do? Right, stand in neat little groups in separate rooms and not come to each other's aid when attacked.

If instead they were to stick together, pick one room and ambush you, you would almost certainly lose (even with Chaotic Commands and the other protections).                    

Offline jcompton

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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2003, 04:06:39 PM »
Quote
In retaliation, Weimer actually implemented it.
                   Retaliation? I expected nothing less than for him to implement it. :)                    
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

Assassin

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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2003, 04:43:46 PM »
What do you think weimer's mods are all about?  Creating mini-supercreatures?  No... They mainly focus on improving the gameplay in Baldur's Gate 2.  Oh no, you actually have to use Breach now...

The mods actually are quite fun to play.  Now, instead of Improved Hasting all of your melee characters, turning on the 'Agressive' AI, and just wading in there while you read a book while your characters just destroy everything, you actually have to pay attention, and use your Mages...                    



[!--EDIT|Assassin|Jan 7 2003, 12:44 AM--]

Kiki

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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2003, 05:25:13 PM »
Quote
Retaliation? I expected nothing less than for him to implement it.
:)

BTW, the dialogue isn't in the readme after all; do you have a copy of that hanging around somewhere still, Jason? Perhaps it should be immortalized on this board.

As a non-powergamer, I don't think that the Tactics elements (Improved Ilyich, Random City & Wilderness Encounters, some others) that I've tried require cheese. I sort of look at them as lessons in how to play the game more effectively.

Although the incessantly spawning thieves in Chateau Irenicus are extremely annoying. But Weimer has already said that he can't get the game engine to decrease the number of random spawns, so I solve that my own way with Ctrl-Y.                    

foogla

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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2003, 05:29:06 PM »
Also don't forget the Item Upgrade mod, how can you be mad at wes wheny you got new toys to play with as some kind of reward (the "oooh shiny!" effect). :)

The Angered One

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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2003, 05:30:47 PM »
"No. There is also poetry. See the Sola fan club on the other forum for details. "


lol sure I havent missed it, its actually the best part of it all, along with the funny dialogs :)

"This isn't true in most cases. You do not have to abuse engine limitations unless you are doing something that was not intended by the makers of the game. BG2 was meant to be played with a party - when you solo, you need to use some cheese (hence the abuse of doors, illusions, Planetars, etc.). If you have a well balanced party, most mods can be done without cheese altogether and the rest only require knowledge of what is ahead (note that this is true of the original BG2 as well - I have never met anyone who got through all of BG2 without ever reloading or restarting from the beginning)."

Isnt it ? I play BG2 quite well, I'm even in a restrictive 5% (but can be very wrong in that) type of gamer, I normaly dont go walking and stop at X point cause I know theres a battle in there and start doing all the protections I'll need cause I well.. just know by some greater force of divination that I'll need it, I actually walk inside the X point and when the battle begin I start doing what I think will fit for that battle.

Yes I die a lot at some battles, sleep only when not in very dangerous places what some times causes me to die even more, maybe you'll laugh but it took me 2 hours to win the improved gromnir the first time I got there, got there in the end of my rope, very few spells, charges in itens and so on.

It gives much more satisfaction to win a battle as you're supposed to, I dont walk around wich much more protection than a party normally would (be it what ? Prot. evil in most dungeons , stoneskins, mass inv., some mirror images, make a lot of wizard eyes, etc etc..)

Now maybe you think I dont play as the game is supposed to be played, be giving load everytime and sleeping everytime, I find it easier (really) to play solo, cause then you're the superman and the enemy better start running.

"There are very few enemies of this kind in any mods. You can do what most enemies do - you just hadn't thought of doing it. There are notable exceptions (Improved Bodhi and Irenicus, the Eclipse, Uber-Telefield Liches, etc.) but most of the time the AI is legitimate."

Oh yes maybe I can be like that shadow thieves that uses the demons  paralizing gaze, or the whole ilych bunch that are imune to web and sleeping cloud and what else (at least they were in my game, you dont even get to see their saving trows, they're just imune), or like the liches and high lvl mages that seem to have 30 slots for every high lvl spell and can cast it in a second, or kensays that are always by improved haste, cloack of mirror and etc but when you kill him you only get his powergamer sword, I would very much like to be his race or class cause his innate abilities are the thing.

Oh well what else.. the random encounters.. you get to cast confusion and charm but do you think the guys stop hiting you ? hell no, they dont stop no matter what.. bah this list can go on if I'm going to list every abuse, but theres no need for that its obvious for everyone that wants to see it.


"So is that what brought this on? My comment about doors?  

Two interesting points:

1) If enemies were not powerful, nobody would care if they could deal with doors or chase you across areas or whatnot. You would kill them without ever knowing what they can do. Furthermore, like I said above, cheese is usually not necessary unless you are doing something peculiar."

Well I care :), dont mind if its a rat ot the avatar of destruction, but you did get too general in this dont you think ?

"2) If enemies were to use a little strategy, the game would not be interesting because you would always lose. In almost all cases, you win battles by fighting a few creatures at a time - and only 1 big bad boss at a time. If you were actually mobbed, you would lose."

Again you got to general but maybe I was too, I'm talking about some battles, not making every group of enemis an unstopable machine (*with seems to be what we get by these mods)

Latest example: To beat improved Ily group you must first call his lesser demon away and beat him alone.

Ilych : Wheres the demon going ?
razputin: Probably going to take a pee.
Ilych: U sure ? I'm hearing sounds of battle..
razputin: Shhh dont mind that, we're supposed to be only ubber and stay here, not to be smart.

Wouldnt it make for a much better battle if instead of all the power they were just smart enough to go all over you at the same time while casting some haste to get you before the library ? Just put the guy that will cast haste way in the back so you'll have problems to magic missil him.

After u kill this lesser demon u probably will have to sleep, have jaheira call woodland, have it cast confusion at their group and it better work, then what, streng of one ? Charm hardly work, haste your guys, have jaheira call insects.. nothing that will really give you some advantage against this group of supermans. Then lastly what, engage incombat ? If your main char in an ubber god maybe you can succed in doing that every 1 at each 20 times, but most likely in this battle u'll have to run til the library and stay behind the door with just one of them at each time.

That Kensay guy is another one, last time I've gone to rescue Imoen quick cause I wanted her in the group, had the malakar and my group couldn stand to face him by any means, I had to uninstall him or drop the sword.

The time I was playing solo, it was easy to beat him, but we killed half the population of the docks district when fighthing (what was actually the most cool thing about that fight anyway)

Bah this also can go on and on but enough of my rants or maybe weimer will make you face a god real soon (hey I didnt know it was part of a joke, should not take you guys seriously hã ?)

Just to clarify I've nothing against powerful enemis, as long as they do things in a AD&D D&D hibrid fashion, and have the rules to back them up, I get really pissed when an otyugh cast a magic poison that always hit you and will eat up your entire life while you unsuccessfuly try to kill him that now regenerates and when u finally do it u cant cast the damn scrolls he left in the ground and was guarded god knows where cause you're inside an insect plague.

If my lvl 1 char is walking in a cemetery and a vamp comes and say that I'll die for being in his territory, I've no problem in dying by that, its completely clear, as long as he dont use a gold dragon breath to finish me.

I also think Ily deserves some power for be inerinus trusted and everything, but cant you then give more conditions for the battle, like say when you coming close to him a band of thieves also attacks his group, then if one of these thiefs survives at the end of combat he turns to you.

"For example, look at the Mind Flayer dungeon. Mind Flayers communicate telepathically (they would know what happened) and they are supposed to be very intelligent. So, once they realize they are being slaughtered, what do they do? Right, stand in neat little groups in separate rooms and not come to each other's aid when attacked.

If instead they were to stick together, pick one room and ambush you, you would almost certainly lose (even with Chaotic Commands and the other protections). "

Well I think you just got your degree in extremism, but if you think your example is indeed what I suggested theres no much point in arguing further with you is there ? Maybe you're one of these modders that have "players must die imprinted at your forehead", can you just think of ways to overwhelm players or can you actually think about the gith using their powers to maintain certain doorst shut not alowing the mind flayers to gather all in one room ?

Or is that something very wrong that cant happen just like everything that happens in these mods ?

Cheers.
                   

 

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