Author Topic: Soulafein Monologues  (Read 13559 times)

Kaylord

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Soulafein Monologues
« on: November 19, 2002, 05:34:19 AM »
Hi all! I have finally had the *pleasure* to take infamous Soulafein into my party. Let me just point out some dialogues and personal impressions of Soulafein, which led me to create the rather provocating topic above...

First of, Soula seems to take lots of dialogue which originally was the PCs task to do, into his own hands. That is so with the Drizzt encounter, but also when freeing Viconia from the Beshaba-Mob.

Second, Soula started a dialogue with Aerie, lecturing her about how she should feel best. He just entered the group and seems so well aquainted with the fears and hopes of her. IMO, that doesn´t seem to fit too well into his "brooding" character.
Well, Aerie is a shy and nice person. But considering that Soula just entered the group, while Aerie has already proven herself in most dark and dangerous circumstances, Soula appears rather self-important and self-righteous, but certainly not "brooding". (I he came up to my pc like that, where was the difference to Anomen?)

Third, he simply walks up and frees Viconia, after asking her whether she was innocent. Having in mind that victims probably very oftenly stress their "innocence", isn´t that rather naive? "Hey criminal, are you innocent?" - "Yes I am!" - "Ok then I ll free you." I noted that you have no chance to ask the Beshaba-guys anymore about the crime Viccy has supposedly committed. You have no chance at all to decide by yourself whether Viccy really is innocent ot should be freed at all.
(Besides that, the mob doesn´t even seem to notice that a second drow just showed up in their city.)

Mighty Soulafein has taken over leadership... ahm... wait.. isn´t my pc is supposed to lead the group (I remember a similar problem with "bitchy" Jaheira in BG1)?

Fourth, a dialogue came up, where he "felt" the pcs "looks" on him, which lead to a lecture about who Eilistrae is. Well, my pc  has seen already better advances by Noober, and knows a lot about the gods of Faerun (sort of a birth right you know...). Perhaps Soula should simply start saying what he wanted to talk about and then talk about when and why he (as an individual) converted, not simply lecturing about some godess?

Fifth, after rescuing Viconia, Soula announced that he would probably not get along with her. Why? Because auf the tales he heard from the pc about the exploits in "Baldurs Gate 1" (that´s a quote). Perhaps Soula should stay a bit more IC? Further, I do not think that a pc, who has had Viccy in the party in BG1, would tell our newly recruted Soulafein necessarily negative things about her, or even so much that he already could allow himself such a judgement. Judging someone because of hearsay doesn´t seem to be a nice character trait. Apart from that, compare how politely he reacted to Drizzt (Drizzt may be famous to the player, but most certainly not to a Drow freshly emerging from a border Drow city?)

In general, there seem to be a lot of "I"s and "me"s in his, can you say  "monologues", which, as I might ask a bit provocatingly, moves his character between infamous boasting Anomen and self-pity whining Aerie...
At least you can tell Anomen to "shut up" when he starts his boasts, and Aerie does not radiate a "Look at me, I really have a hard time, but I am so cool and have everything under control" attitude.

Please feel free to take any criticism for suggestions! I would LOVE to see my current pc to fall in live with "a potent male", but this is starting to be rather difficult...                    

L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2002, 08:28:10 AM »
I don't have the time this morning to go over your post point by point, instead I will simply say that what you are experienceing is the shocking reality that is called free will.  You're not used to it because all the BioWare NPCs follow the PC around like mindless puppies.  Solaufein is not taking over, he is simply thinking for himself.                    

Kaylord

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2002, 09:15:36 AM »
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Solaufein is not taking over, he is simply thinking for himself.
                   *looking forward to discuss character*

The person who does best in thinking for himself is Keldorn; remember when he spoils your illithium trick on Sarles? Great! It is a pity that´s almost all you get from Keldorn...

I do not think it is "free will" of an npc (I won´t point out the paradox since I understand the point behind it; I read your article) when most of the dialogue becomes a monologue of Soulafein. And if it is "free will" that Soula rescues Viconia without further consent of the group (I did not notice the other npcs giving their opinions like they used to) and especially the pc who is supposed to lead that group, it could be equally named "free will" that the pc kicks him out of the group or the pc leaves a group who suddenly seems to follow Soulas whim instead the pcs will. Now, this, we (ahm, the player) don´t want at all!  :)

So perhaps, there could be an option in the dialogues about how the pc/the group thinks about Soula acting without consent or even without asking the others. That sort of conflict would surely enrich the story! (I missed that option already very dearly on Jaheira in BG1...)

                   

Kish

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2002, 09:18:51 AM »
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First of, Soula seems to take lots of dialogue which originally was the PCs task to do, into his own hands. That is so with the Drizzt encounter, but also when freeing Viconia from the Beshaba-Mob.
He's assertive.  Unless you told him to shut up when he asked you what to call you, I'd say the problem is that other characters (notably Pushy Jaheira) aren't assertive enough.
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Second, Soula started a dialogue with Aerie, lecturing her about how she should feel best. He just entered the group and seems so well aquainted with the fears and hopes of her. IMO, that doesn´t seem to fit too well into his "brooding" character.
Well, Aerie is a shy and nice person. But considering that Soula just entered the group, while Aerie has already proven herself in most dark and dangerous circumstances, Soula appears rather self-important and self-righteous, but certainly not "brooding". (I he came up to my pc like that, where was the difference to Anomen?)

Third, he simply walks up and frees Viconia, after asking her whether she was innocent. Having in mind that victims probably very oftenly stress their "innocence", isn´t that rather naive? "Hey criminal, are you innocent?" - "Yes I am!" - "Ok then I ll free you." I noted that you have no chance to ask the Beshaba-guys anymore about the crime Viccy has supposedly committed. You have no chance at all to decide by yourself whether Viccy really is innocent ot should be freed at all.
(Besides that, the mob doesn´t even seem to notice that a second drow just showed up in their city.)
Nothing to add here--I agree that both of these are inappropriate.  (The thing to bear in mind about the Aerie interaction is that, in the eyes of the mod-maker, Aerie is not a "shy and nice person" but an "annoying whiny bitch."  As for Viconia...I can only speculate that Wes has rescued her in so many games that the idea a new player might wonder if she's guilty didn't occur to him.)
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Mighty Soulafein has taken over leadership... ahm... wait.. isn´t my pc is supposed to lead the group (I remember a similar problem with "bitchy" Jaheira in BG1)?
You do lead the group.  You can kick Solaufein out at any time.  Until you do...he'll do whatever he would in character.  And isn't it a shame that other characters don't do that?
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Fifth, after rescuing Viconia, Soula announced that he would probably not get along with her. Why? Because auf the tales he heard from the pc about the exploits in "Baldurs Gate 1" (that´s a quote).
Owowow.  Hopefully, Wes will fix that.                    

L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2002, 10:48:53 AM »
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The person who does best in thinking for himself is Keldorn; remember when he spoils your illithium trick on Sarles?

Um... no.  I must have missed that bit.  :huh:

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I do not think it is "free will" of an npc (I won´t point out the paradox since I understand the point behind it;

Thank you.  Yes, I know it is (to say the least) tricky to talk about the free will of a programmed character.  

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And if it is "free will" that Soula rescues Viconia without further consent of the group (I did not notice the other npcs giving their opinions like they used to) and especially the pc who is supposed to lead that group, it could be equally named "free will" that the pc kicks him out of the group or the pc leaves a group who suddenly seems to follow Soulas whim instead the pcs will. Now, this, we (ahm, the player) don´t want at all!

His rescuing of Viconia doesn't bother me at all.  In fact, I'd find it strange if he just stood by and did nothing.  Think of it this way, if you/your character, a human, were in a party of Underdark Drow  (unlikely, I know, but go with me here) and you saw another human about to be burned at the stake and proclaiming her innocence, wouldn't you be likely to impulsively rush to the rescue?  I mean, they're about to burn her at the stake!  Is this time for a sober discussion in committee?

For my own part I usually rush to the rescue; innocent until proven guilty and all that.  Besides, as a player, I know that trying to reason with the crowd and/or guards does nothing but get Viconia killed, so there's nothing left to do but rescue her or walk away.

Or maybe it's just me.  I do usually play a Paladin after all.  B)                    

Offline jcompton

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2002, 10:51:01 AM »
It's true enough that if you don't like Solaufein's exercise of his free will, you can exercise yours and dump him. In large part because Wes has decided that Solaufein will act impulsively to do what he feels is right, (and probably in some small part because INTERJECT does not support REPLYs :) ) you just have to either accept or reject Solaufein as "the guy who acts on a snap judgement without consultation where even a do-gooder might have asked for more information." Part of the territory.

As for his dialogues/monologues, you are not alone in feeling that Solaufein is perhaps not so far from the Bioware tree as intended. But the billions and billions of satisfied Solaufein customers are, uh, satisfied.                    



[!--EDIT|jcompton|Nov 19 2002, 12:52 PM--]
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L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2002, 10:53:15 AM »
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I'd say the problem is that other characters (notably Pushy Jaheira) aren't assertive enough.


I agree.  (And for those that are wondering now about my stated opinions of Anomen I say: Abusive and assertive are not the same thing.)

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You do lead the group. You can kick Solaufein out at any time. Until you do...he'll do whatever he would in character. And isn't it a shame that other characters don't do that?


Woo!  Say it again!                      

Kaylord

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2002, 12:16:29 PM »
Uhm... "assertive".. I had to look this one up in a dictionary. In Germany this is a negative term. So in english?

Anyhow.. I am a bit surprised that my point seems not too far away from the opinions here, although perhaps well from the consequences. I say "annoyance almost as Anomen".

"T´would easen my conscience and enhance thou pleasure the same if something be done, my fair Weimer!"
 B)

(BTW and a bit OT:) If I could, my pc would fall in love with Yoshimo; always cheery (remember Yoshi vs Korgan), always a fancy remark ("tourists love that stuff") and caring/daring at the same time (remember Jahreira snapping angrily at him because he, ahm, *tries* to look after her). AND: A tragic end!! Best recipe for shiny story, yes!?

But perhaps weimer could fix some of the minor, say, inconsistencies?

Perhaps like  this, a
*** suggestion for Viconia***
[Beshaba] "Look ye all upon this foul drow (...)"
[Viccy] "Wait, I recognize you (...)"
(interjections of party members)
(normally it is your time now to question and/or cut Viccy loose)
instead: Having gained the attention of the crowd by Viconia pointing at [charname], the eyes of the leader of the Followers of Beshaba widen:
"What is this! My friends, look upon them! Another drow trying to hide amongst us! Seize him, bring them ALL to JUSTICE!!! Beshaba aid ye!!!"
(some party interjection:)
[Keldorn] "I serve justice, Beshabian runt, even if that forces me to defend drow right now. (murmurs) one of the darkest hours of my service... I would save them all, if I could. "
[Soula] "Shars´il nath ogoth! I don´t need your protection, Paladin, though any idea would be welcome to stop an unnecessary bloodshed."
[Jan] My, my... Soula, maybe I should advice you next time to use some of "Jansens super effective cosmetics", guaranteed no wrinkles before 50..."
[Soula, drawing weapons in defence] "Jan, I AM over 400... shass´dar.. now I already take a jester serious..."
[Korgan] "Never thought that a drowling would lead me to tearing down commoners.... some good at ye may be a´tr all..."
[Soula] "Korgan, maybe you should have stayd down in the underdark where you really belong."
(...)
(continue mainscript)
[Soula; quick glance around at the prospect of having to kill, or, eventually, run from, a mob of commoners] "COME OUT OF THE DARK CORNERS MY SOLDIERS! DROP YOUR FALSE DISGUISES MY FRIENDS!! LETS KILL THE SURFACERS AND EXTRACT REVENGE!!!"
[Commoners] "EEEK" "Run for it" (...)
(Combat ensures as after cutting Viccy loose)
(Dialogue afterwards whether to cut Viccy loose or not; Soula could as well be cautious, since he knows few "good" drows - as he should BTW and IMO also with Drizzt. [charname] could convince him; discussion, whether Soulas trick was good or not)

**** just an idea, would be needed to expand a bit***                    

Kaylord

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2002, 12:19:59 PM »
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(and probably in some small part because INTERJECT does not support REPLYs :) )
                   Ah, I did not know this. This makes things more difficult especially for someone as "assertive" as Soulafein...                    

Kaylord

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2002, 12:24:42 PM »
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you just have to either accept or reject Solaufein as "the guy who acts on a snap judgement without consultation where even a do-gooder might have asked for more information." Part of the territory.
                   Yep, I only would love a possibility between the extremes of
- letting him do whatever he wants, effectively burying the pcs (by taking away dialogue options in the end also the players´) authority
and
- throwing him out after this happens without beeing able to discuss the problem IC with him.

Is that too difficult to implement?

Anyway, I really want to experience something new and keep you updated about further impressions of mine, so I CAN´t throw him out....  :rolleyes:                    

L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2002, 01:09:21 PM »
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Uhm... "assertive".. I had to look this one up in a dictionary. In Germany this is a negative term. So in english?

No, it's not a bad word in English.  I think the word you might be thinking of is argumentative.

Solaufein is assertive, he does thing boldly and with confidence.

Anomen is argumentative, he likes to have things his own way.

English can be a very confusing language.   ^_^                    

Offline jcompton

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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2002, 01:27:52 PM »
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Solaufein is assertive, he does thing boldly and with confidence.

Anomen is argumentative, he likes to have things his own way.
Tsk, tsk, Ms. Jonté. One should not use a language lesson as a way to forward one's own opinions. :)

I think it's pretty clear Solaufein likes having things his own way. He makes "bold, confident" decisions even though he is not the employer. He muscles in on (CHARNAME) even if someone else is draped all over him/her. (yes, takes two to tango here, but clearly he is not dissuaded.)

Kaylord: It would certainly be possible for Wes to implement "yelling at Solaufein for making party decisions" but I'm not sure what you'd get out of it. I doubt very much he will have Solaufein apologize and I believe he's on record saying he won't disable Solaufein's interventions... so you just have to take what you like with what you don't.

                   



[!--EDIT|jcompton|Nov 19 2002, 03:29 PM--]
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2002, 02:28:07 PM »
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Tsk, tsk, Ms. Jonté. One should not use a language lesson as a way to forward one's own opinions.

Damn!  Rumbled!  :P


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He muscles in on (CHARNAME) even if someone else is draped all over him/her. (yes, takes two to tango here, but clearly he is not dissuaded.)


Oh yeah!  I'd forgotten about that particualr quirk.  I've never seen it in gametime because up till this latest game my PC has only ever had Sola to choose from.  (Anomen is never an option.)  Right now in my party is Solaufein, Kelsey and Anomen.  I'm looking forward to some serious infighting.   B)                    

Offline jcompton

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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2002, 02:42:03 PM »
I'll be interested to hear if you think Kelsey makes a compelling case.

Interested, but not holding my breath as to an affirmative result. :)                    



[!--EDIT|jcompton|Nov 19 2002, 04:42 PM--]
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2002, 03:42:03 PM »
I'll give him a fair hearing.   B)                    

Doewen

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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2002, 03:42:53 PM »
I just finished my first game where Sola has an ending monologue, and  I absolutely love it.  Better than anything that I had envisioned.  Great writing.    :D                    

Sphira

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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2002, 03:58:17 PM »
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Hi all! I have finally had the *pleasure* to take infamous Soulafein into my party. Let me just point out some dialogues and personal impressions of Soulafein, which led me to create the rather provocating topic above...
Wheee! A debate! :D First of all, please don't take anything I say personally, I spout my opinions often.

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First of, Soula seems to take lots of dialogue which originally was the PCs task to do, into his own hands. That is so with the Drizzt encounter, but also when freeing Viconia from the Beshaba-Mob.
As said earlier by Jonté-sama, Solaufien is a drow. Drizzt and Viconia are drow. It's a race thing and it's not really -that- different from real life. Besides, this is a *GOOOD!* thing when you got Drizzt's armor n' stuff... *shamed look*


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Second, Soula started a dialogue with Aerie, lecturing her about how she should feel best. He just entered the group and seems so well aquainted with the fears and hopes of her. IMO, that doesn´t seem to fit too well into his "brooding" character.

You really can't blame the character for this, you blame the programming that doesn't allow a character to know when it's right to talk about something.

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Well, Aerie is a shy and nice person. But considering that Soula just entered the group, while Aerie has already proven herself in most dark and dangerous circumstances, Soula appears rather self-important and self-righteous, but certainly not "brooding". (I he came up to my pc like that, where was the difference to Anomen?)

Aerie is navie and while nice, she's whiny and perferes to think about her past. While she's not that annoying when you're not being romanced, she's somewhat wishy-washy. Unless if she's fighting with Jaheria over you, then she gets a backbone. It's scary how both characters get so nasty to each other. As a girl, I'm offened by this. -_- I never let no guy get between me and a friend... or at the very least never get so evil one another.... [Babbles on about this].

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Third, he simply walks up and frees Viconia, after asking her whether she was innocent. Having in mind that victims probably very oftenly stress their "innocence", isn´t that rather naive? "Hey criminal, are you innocent?" - "Yes I am!" - "Ok then I ll free you." I noted that you have no chance to ask the Beshaba-guys anymore about the crime Viccy has supposedly committed. You have no chance at all to decide by yourself whether Viccy really is innocent ot should be freed at all.
(Besides that, the mob doesn´t even seem to notice that a second drow just showed up in their city.)


Well, this is a moral thing (also brought up by people)... If you're good (I'm assuming you're good) you don't let people who might have helped you in the past get hurt. While *I* hate Viccy (not because she's evil, it's because of something that happens in ToB that I think is VERY undrow like), my character won't let anyone be killed until she knows the truth. Besides, you're the one in the end who can say if Viccy 'joins' the group or not.
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Mighty Soulafein has taken over leadership... ahm... wait.. isn´t my pc is supposed to lead the group (I remember a similar problem with "bitchy" Jaheira in BG1)?


Bitchy Jaheira ruled!

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Fourth, a dialogue came up, where he "felt" the pcs "looks" on him, which lead to a lecture about who Eilistrae is. Well, my pc  has seen already better advances by Noober, and knows a lot about the gods of Faerun (sort of a birth right you know...). Perhaps Soula should simply start saying what he wanted to talk about and then talk about when and why he (as an individual) converted, not simply lecturing about some godess?


Ah, but the thing is that Eilistrae is a *drow* goddess and thus surface types aren't quite as knowledgeable about drow goddesses. Knowing about gods and goddesses varies between personal character concepts. If you're a cleric or such, then the validation of knowing more about gods than the average person. But even then just because you're a cleric doesn't mean you care about gods of other races or know about them. If you're not a cleric you proably only care about one god, if that at all. Also, just because you're Bhaalspawn (who did not find out about on their own) doesn't mean you get knowledge of the gods.

However, hearing more about what attracted Sola to the worship of Eilistae would be nifty.

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Fifth, after rescuing Viconia, Soula announced that he would probably not get along with her. Why? Because auf the tales he heard from the pc about the exploits in "Baldurs Gate 1" (that´s a quote). Perhaps Soula should stay a bit more IC? Further, I do not think that a pc, who has had Viccy in the party in BG1, would tell our newly recruted Soulafein necessarily negative things about her, or even so much that he already could allow himself such a judgement. Judging someone because of hearsay doesn´t seem to be a nice character trait. Apart from that, compare how politely he reacted to Drizzt (Drizzt may be famous to the player, but most certainly not to a Drow freshly emerging from a border Drow city?)

You are somewhat right on the whole Sola judgement thing. But personally I think he's letting her know he's not the typical male drow as well. As for Drizzt, yes, he would know about him. Drow (i think) are supposed to be on the look out for exiles and such to kill them so being in a town so close to the surface one would think they'd be the first to know.
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In general, there seem to be a lot of "I"s and "me"s in his, can you say  "monologues", which, as I might ask a bit provocatingly, moves his character between infamous boasting Anomen and self-pity whining Aerie...
All the bioware chars don't seem to care about how the PC is feeling. Jeez, you must feel like hell. It would be nice for a Bio NPC to say "Would you like a hug/shoulder to cry on?"
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At least you can tell Anomen to "shut up" when he starts his boasts, and Aerie does not radiate a "Look at me, I really have a hard time, but I am so cool and have everything under control" attitude.
I see her as 'pity me! my life sucks!' when you romance her.

On the note of Aerie's past, I realized that the time between Baldur's gate was a couple of months. Aerie's attachment to Quayle seems like he's been helping her for years. Quayle was a snot in BGI! I could never see him taking time to rasie an elf in a couple of months.                    

Offline weimer

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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2002, 06:02:18 PM »
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Let me just point out some dialogues and personal impressions of Soulafein,

Thanks for taking the time to share your opinions. Although I am by no means surrounded by sycophants and yes-men,  the occasional almost-bitter rejoinder from Jason is about as close as we get to Sola-negativity around here, so your comments make for a pleasant change.

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First of, Soula seems to take lots of dialogue which originally was the PCs task to do, into his own hands.

Yes. I'm almost tempted to publish an essay on the subject since it comes up so often. Suffice it to say that I long for the tabletop gaming of yore when all of the party members actually contributed. I believe that Bioware was lax in making all of their NPCs merely reactive.

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Second, Soula started a dialogue with Aerie, lecturing her about how she should feel best. He just entered the group and seems so well aquainted with the fears and hopes of her. IMO, that doesn´t seem to fit too well into his "brooding" character.

The big problem here is that there is no easy way to tell how long people have been in the group. It can happen with other NPCs,  not just Sola -- for example, depending on how you swing things, Jan and Anomen can come to insulets much faster than seems reasonable, and Valygar can start Driving Miss Mazzy all too soon.

However, you bring up a good point.

Imagine that I changed Solaufein so that he would only banter with party members after he had been with the group for, say, two days of game time or two hours of real-time, whichever came first? Would this seem more realistic to people?

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Third, he simply walks up and frees Viconia, after asking her whether she was innocent. Having in mind that victims probably very oftenly stress their "innocence", isn´t that rather naive?

Sure, it's also idealistic. Solaufein knows well what it is like to be an oucast and acts out of imagined solidarity.

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isn´t my pc is supposed to lead the group

Is it? I don't recall it ever being decided as an autocratic dictatorship *in character* -- that's just the way things play out because a single human nominally controls all of the party members and because the Bioware NPCs are generally spineless in this regard. Granted, BG2 is not Fallout, and we all know how annoying it is to lack control over your party in a tactical situation. However, I personally believe that a hybrid model would be best: you control them in fights, they have their own minds when roleplaying. BG2 already adopts this model to some degree with their interjections and choices (for example, Mazzy won't join with Bodhi, Jaheira gets mad if you strongarm the svirfneblin) -- I think they should have done more.

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Fourth, a dialogue came up, where he "felt" the pcs "looks" on him, which lead to a lecture about who Eilistrae is. Well, my pc  has seen already better advances by Noober, and knows a lot about the gods of Faerun (sort

I'm sure you have seen some better advances -- it wasn't meant to be an advance. I actually got a number of complaints from players who had no idea who Eilistraee was, and I was asked to add an expository dialogue. You may have already known about her, but you are in the minority. However, your point is a good one -- I will add an "I already know about Eilistraee" option to that dialogue.

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the tales he heard from the pc about the exploits in "Baldurs Gate 1" (that´s a quote). Perhaps Soula should

It may be a quote, but it's a quote out of context. Here's the whole phrase:

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While I could not stand to see you unjustly executed, Viconia, based on what CHARNAME has told me about you from Baldur's Gate I am not at all sure that we will get along.

To make things clearer, I have added a comma. This brings to mind one of my favorite PERL jokes:

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Q. What does "/\" mean in this code:  "my($a,$B)=split(/\|/,$c);" ?
A. What does "nua" mean in this sentence: "Read the manual." ?

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has had Viccy in the party in BG1, would tell our newly recruted Soulafein necessarily negative things about her,

Even if the PC just said "She is a priestess of Shar", that would probably be enough to dissuade Solaufein. Remember that he is trying to escape all that evil and this is long before any possible ToB-Vic-Goodness.

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Drizzt may be famous to the player, but most certainly not to a Drow freshly emerging from a border Drow city?

The general consesus among FR people seems to be that Sola would in fact have heard of Drizzt, in some part because he was on a border city.

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provocatingly, moves his character between infamous boasting Anomen and self-pity whining Aerie...

Well, Darcyfein does have his share of pride (sorry, little joke with another thread), but I would be interested to know where you found him to be a self-pitying whiner. There is a difference between not being sure made the right decision (common for Solaufein) and asking that others pity you because something bad has befallen you (in my memory, non-existant for Solaufein).

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Please feel free to take any criticism for suggestions!

Don't worry, we shall.

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I would LOVE to see my current pc to fall in live with "a potent male", but this is starting to be rather difficult...

If you dislike Solaufein, you may find Kelsey perfect for your tastes. I cannot say enough good things about him.                    

L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2002, 06:15:47 PM »
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Although I am by no means surrounded by sycophants and yes-men...

What?  You must have missed the memo.  A gross of sycophants and yes-men are scheduled for delivery next Thursday.   Set a few more places at the table.  :D

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Suffice it to say that I long for the tabletop gaming of yore when all of the party members actually contributed.

*sigh*  You're not the only one.                    

Kish

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2002, 06:16:28 PM »
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While I could not stand to see you unjustly executed, Viconia, based on what CHARNAME has told me about you from Baldur's Gate I am not at all sure that we will get along.

Thank heavens.

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provocatingly, moves his character between infamous boasting Anomen and self-pity whining Aerie...

Well, Darcyfein does have his share of pride (sorry, little joke with another thread), but I would be interested to know where you found him to be a self-pitying whiner.
                   The line, "Why did I let him/her go?" comes to mind.  Yes, it's just one line few people will ever see...but when I saw that, considering he didn't utter a single syllable to prevent me from leaving, I suddenly had a newfound insight into how you see Aerie.                    

L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2002, 06:23:56 PM »
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The line, "Why did I let him/her go?" comes to mind.

*choke*  That line just killed me.                    

Offline jcompton

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2002, 06:52:35 PM »
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the occasional almost-bitter rejoinder from Jason is about as close as we get to Sola-negativity around here, so your comments make for a pleasant change.

Now, wait a sec.

I admit to my faults but in this case I was defending the Solaufein's right to be the Solaufein. I pointed out to Lisa, as I have in the past to others, where I think the overlap between Solaufein and (say) Anomen is bigger than others see it, but I assure you that there was no bitterness intended.

(scanning the post for what might seem to be the most almost-bitter portion.)

"Billions and billions" is, depending on your personal preference, a McDonalds or a Sagan reference, and my repeat of "satisfied" was not one of disbelief or some other bitter construction, but was simply brought to you by the Department for Redundant Sentence Construction Department, since plenty of people ARE in fact quite satisfied with his construction, most of all (I presume) you. (85 versions later, I hope so. :) )

I'll even clarify that I think Solaufein makes plenty of snap decisions that my basically Good PCs would make anyway. There.

Telling Lisa she's naughty was just necessary. :)

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I believe that Bioware was lax in making all of their NPCs merely reactive.

It would be an interesting marketing experiment to see if a game with a bunch of NPCs with Solaufein's level of proactivity would go over well.

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Sure, it's also idealistic. Solaufein knows well what it is like to be an oucast and acts out of imagined solidarity.

One thing to consider, given how Solaufein and Viconia don't get along (a fact which existed BEFORE the Solaufein-saves-Viconia plot element was introduced) is some indication that Solaufein might have second thoughts about his decision or muse upon the indignity given the cirumstances or something. Or does he take the irony of it all as part of life's rich pageant?

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Is it? I don't recall it ever being decided as an autocratic dictatorship *in character* -- that's just the way things play out because a single human nominally controls all of the party members and because the Bioware NPCs are generally spineless in this regard.

Presumably, if Aerie or Korgan had the authority to kick the other out, they would have done so. For better or for worse the NPCs all make it clear to me that they follow the PC's lead, reputation (with the exception of the Drow Penalty) is tied to the PC's name, etc. There is some non-zero number of quest-assigning characters who will not speak to anybody but Player1.

You may say that those are broken game elements but sooner or later I think there's a pattern.                    



[!--EDIT|jcompton|Nov 19 2002, 08:54 PM--]
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

L_Jonté

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Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2002, 07:02:41 PM »
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Telling Lisa she's naughty was just necessary.

*hand flutters dramatically to forehead*  I am so misunderstood!   :P                    

Caswallon

  • Guest
Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2002, 07:20:59 PM »
I'd support, in principle, Kaylord's suggestion of making the Beshaba clerics and the mob to react on the appearance of another drow in Athkatla (if that's technically possible, that is). It would give a lot more credibility to the scene and maybe even provide some additional reason for Solaufein to intervene, not just drow solidarity.

Most probably, however, it simply doesn't pay to bother - how many people actually avoid the government district prior to going to Spellhold? So I guess only few users of Solaufein ever live to see that particular dialogue.:) (That's just guessing, however, and not based on representative surveys, so you're welcome to argue.):)                    

Kish

  • Guest
Soulafein Monologues
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2002, 07:27:33 PM »
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For my own part I usually rush to the rescue; innocent until proven guilty and all that. Besides, as a player, I know that trying to reason with the crowd and/or guards does nothing but get Viconia killed, so there's nothing left to do but rescue her or walk away.
This is...interesting, because what I know as a player is that pausing to speak to the fanatics before rescuing her can confirm that she has committed no crime except simply to be a Drow.                    

 

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