Author Topic: Valen romance  (Read 79480 times)

Guest

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2002, 03:51:33 AM »
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My point is you must understand the full scope of RP'ing before you say someone is Rp'ing their role wrong.  A scope that, judging from your writing, you haven't got the foggiest idea about.

As long as I can back up what I'm saying, my Rp'ing is valid.  Your assertion that "Romancancing" (or as i prefer to call it "Seducing") Valen is against Rp'ing is idiotic and narrow-minded.  The PC is evil, he wants someone evil at his side, what better than a vampire under his control?  I don't give a crap about where she gets her blood from, as long as it's not me, and with all the fights the PC gets in Valen would be well-fed.  She wouldn't need to "feed" on me, and should she betray her master she's done for and she knows it.

Being evil is more than killing everyone you meet.  Being evil takes more skill than being good.  Rp'ing is a complex subject matter and one could write volumes explaining it.  Suffice it to say the you can RP on any end of the spectrum you wish.



                   
What you described is not romance as I understand it. You want to control Valen. Make Valen a tool. Is that a romance ? To borrow your phrase, from your writing, you haven't a foggiest idea what a romance is.

I may not understand the full scope of RP'ing as you view it, but that doesn't I can't see what is right or wrong. As you mentioned yourself you need to take things into context when RP. Have you taken into context what kind of character Valen is ? In case you forgot, romance involves two people, both of whom must have the same feeling towards each other. People wants to romance Valen, but does Valen wants to romance the PC ?

I know there is more to RP'ing evil than just killing everything that moves. My post regarding the guarded compound was not about the killing but what triggered the killing. The PC had to wipe out everyone because he was attacked. Fine. But he was attacked because he was trespassing. Infact the PC was given the option to leave the building. So in my limited RP'ing experience, a good aligned PC should not be in the building in the first place. Second the PC should have left the building when asked.

If my RP'ing understanding of that is wrong, then please correct me where I was wrong.

As Quitch said, if people wants to fall in love with a vampire, they can create one. Leave Valen as she is.                    

Auvrin

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2002, 04:19:08 AM »
:blink: I'm not Quitch..?  :blink:                    

Guest

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2002, 04:28:47 AM »

Ooops, sorry.

I though Quitch once said that. Maybe not here though. I could be mistaken.

My apologies.                    

Guest

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2002, 04:49:53 AM »
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My point is you must understand the full scope of RP'ing before you say someone is Rp'ing their role wrong. A scope that, judging from your writing, you haven't got the foggiest idea about.

As long as I can back up what I'm saying, my Rp'ing is valid. Your assertion that "Romancancing" (or as i prefer to call it "Seducing") Valen is against Rp'ing is idiotic and narrow-minded. The PC is evil, he wants someone evil at his side, what better than a vampire under his control? I don't give a crap about where she gets her blood from, as long as it's not me, and with all the fights the PC gets in Valen would be well-fed. She wouldn't need to "feed" on me, and should she betray her master she's done for and she knows it.

As I said, check out the link bellow.   I might, FOR ROLEPLAYING REASONS, make it possible to make My NPC a permanent vamp, NOTE: NOT as powerful as valen, who was unbalancing.  And she is initially a slave... So it would not be as much a change.  Again, Wes would be far better, I am positive, but an idea.  Here I am using my own creation as a "diplomatic peace :)"                    

Dark Phantom

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2002, 04:51:40 AM »
Sorry, that was me.  I keep getting knocked off stuff (GRRR)                    

KaPe

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2002, 09:35:14 AM »
Just my little suggestion - if you decide to make Valen "romanceable"(or sth) then make it optional... After all, some would prefer to simply have a cold-hearted killer by his side, than a "seducing" vampire lady... And yes the "control" part sound fairly nice, after all I don't expect a walking corpse(face it, that's what she is :o  ) to "seduce" me :D                    

Nutter

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2002, 12:45:18 AM »
from what i got from the conversations between valen and roger the fence, and valen and rose bouquet - i suppose somewhere under all that chaotic evil exterior might be someone worth redeeming... maybe her alignment could possibly be changed from CE to CN via a mini-side quest

a valen romance on the other hand is hardly necessary - she's a great character with great depth already

and she's also what the game sorely lacks -  a superb thief                    

Spideyknight

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2002, 02:08:34 AM »
"What you described is not romance as I understand it. You want to control Valen. Make Valen a tool. Is that a romance ? To borrow your phrase, from your writing, you haven't a foggiest idea what a romance is."

Look "Guest" I didn't read all of your response mainly because I don't need to, since in one fell swoop I'm going to invalidate everything you said anyway.  

I call it "Seduction" not "romance", it could be a romance if that's the way you want it, but a romance between an evil PC and an evil Valen likely isn't going to go far.  However you "seducing" her, or her "seducing" you could have some merit.  So next time before you go off on a tangent, READ.  Thanks.

Valen maybe a walking corpse, however many vampires are known for their ability to charm humans, male or female.  Remember if a relationship were to work between these two it couldn't be a lovey dovey boy meets girl type thing.  It would have to have some twist, that attracts two evil people to each other.  Be it by their own free will, natural abilities, etc...
                   

Dashael

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2002, 11:41:31 AM »
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I was waiting for some sort of consensus, but it looks like that will never happen.

Was there a consensus on romancing Solaufein? I never thought of him as a romance option until I saw first came across your website. I would suggest perhaps that you keep the idea on the back-burner and if a believable romance scenario comes to mind then proceed. Trust me, if Sola's dialog is an indicator even the nay-sayers will probably enjoy a Valen romance.

Anyhow, since when was this ship a democracy Captain? :)                    

Guest

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2002, 03:31:36 AM »
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"What you described is not romance as I understand it. You want to control Valen. Make Valen a tool. Is that a romance ? To borrow your phrase, from your writing, you haven't a foggiest idea what a romance is."

Look "Guest" I didn't read all of your response mainly because I don't need to, since in one fell swoop I'm going to invalidate everything you said anyway.  

I call it "Seduction" not "romance", it could be a romance if that's the way you want it, but a romance between an evil PC and an evil Valen likely isn't going to go far.  However you "seducing" her, or her "seducing" you could have some merit.  So next time before you go off on a tangent, READ.  Thanks.

Valen maybe a walking corpse, however many vampires are known for their ability to charm humans, male or female.  Remember if a relationship were to work between these two it couldn't be a lovey dovey boy meets girl type thing.  It would have to have some twist, that attracts two evil people to each other.  Be it by their own free will, natural abilities, etc...
                   
Well, you tell me to READ your post, yet you failed to READ mine.

If you bothered to read my post, I was oppose to a romance option for VALEN. I did not oppose a romance mod for a VAMPIRE. I even said that a SEDUCTION is possible for VALEN.

It is pointless talking to you since you don't listen or read what people say or write.                    

raven

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2002, 02:06:29 PM »
Well, I'd vouch for a valen romance... but maybe not in the normal sense... even demonesses and such sometimes do seek consort to plot great evils together  B)                    

Trau

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2002, 08:24:02 PM »
I don't see why all these people are against it. If you don't want the romance, fine, but why should others have to go by your standards of roleplaying? The point is to have as much fun as possible.                    

Kish

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2002, 09:12:13 PM »
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I don't see why all these people are against it.
Likely because they think Valen is a better character without being willing to romance/have sex with/whatever CharName.
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If you don't want the romance, fine, but why should others have to go by your standards of roleplaying?
"If you do want the romance, fine, but why should others have to go by your standards of roleplaying?"

Making Valen willing to romance (or whatever) CharName is a change in her personality.  It naturally appeals to those who think it would be a good change, and unappeals to those who think it would be a bad change.  Your argument seems to hinge on the false premise, "RomanceableValen is everything NonRomanceableValen is plus more."  If Valen becomes willing to romance CharName, then she is no longer the same character as the current Valen.                    

Spideyknight

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2002, 11:10:20 PM »
Guest I did not read your post(at the time) because your first statement was moronic.  As is your response, but we'll not get into that.

"If you bothered to read my post, I was oppose to a romance option for VALEN. I did not oppose a romance mod for a VAMPIRE. I even said that a SEDUCTION is possible for VALEN."

I read your post and no where in it does it say, a seduction is possible for Valen.  But I don't care.  What I replied to was your statement saying what I was describing wasn't a romance.  No duh, I wasn't trying to describe a romance I was trying to describe a way that the PC might have a relationship with Valen, and I termed that Seduction.

No where did I say you opposed a romance for a vampire and I don't care that you oppose one for Valen, if you think a seduction is possible for Valen then fine, why were you trying to debate?  It was quite obvious I wasn't describing a romance, why did you have to bring that up?  We have nothing to debate, I thought a seduction, not a romance, was a good idea and you think it's possible, so we are in agreeance.  End of story.
                   

Another Guest

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2002, 12:53:35 AM »
It seems a lot of people on this board think of valen as a mindless murderer robot with a program not a brain (yeah I could have said "too much instinct" but it would not make her any brainless, at least in the way I think some of you see her.. as an animal, could even have been the "valen figurine" instead of the valen NPC)

When I first saw the valen mod I donwloaded right away, thought "great, now this seems to have all the potential to be a wonderful evil NPC"

I was wrong back then, shes just a new "weapon" you gain from body, and not much more than that. I'm not here to stalk you weimer or anything, some of her speechs are intriguing, and maybe what do I know ? Maybe shes exactly like you wanted her to be, but I became so sad to see all of valen potential as a character waste away for her oh so completely empitness of self (and neither am I saying somebody should agree with me, I play mostly CN anyway, this is my point, my tastes, my vision, my bullshit).

I side with some that turning her into somebody wich requires from you (as an RPG player) some more feeling, thought and emotion (and mainly interaction) rather than some tactical tool you just send away in endeless backstab campaings at everyone in your way could only be a change for the better. I dont care if its valen romance, redemption, seduction, gangbang, or 300 new more lines of banter with jansen about his turnip hater, garnic farmer cousing, whatever gets the job done. Right now I wont force myself to think anybody that doesnt want interaction is part of the RPG hating mafia, after all BG is a computer game and if somebody want her to shup up and follow the commands its alright, or if some think she is too brainless or addictive to blood to harvest a feeling its alright.

So if you decide to do some add-ons sometime wes I know that at least you wont in the slightest chance be missing contributions and gratitude. And if you decide for that can you at least make her less godlike ? There are times that valens presence make the game as an RPG and tactical game not fun (or rather not challenging before I step on somebody that finds fun to kill everybody easily), at least I can improve my fun factor by removing her claws.

Just those 3 cents.

Changing the subject a little, has anybody watched queen of the damned as of late ? What do you ppl think ? Does it have a place alongside with the classic Interview ?

Best regards for all.

--------------------------

A kiss to make her numb, but al the love in the world.. cant save her from herself.
                   

Trau

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2002, 07:37:03 PM »
I fail to see how it would be a change in her personality. Her nature, to me, seems very weak and submissive. Once body has given her up or died, she would be inclined to take orders from another, possibly a lover. Either way, there are other changes in the game. Sarevok fights by your side, Viconia can change her alignment if you work her right. Who woulda thunk that anyone would change Viconia?                    

Khelia

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2002, 08:41:41 AM »
Having played Valen now, I would like to throw in my two cents, and yes I would like to see her romanceable. She has some good dialogue with a lot of folks, BUT the PC, so some added talk with the PC which can include off-romance/use the vampire would be a plus I believe.

When would be the idea time? After the death of Bodhi when sheís lost her mistress, that would be a good time for an evil PC to step in and take over as her master/mistress. Should Valen change from evil to neutral/good, NO! Why? If youíre working for Bodhi and have Valen in your party, most likely your PC is evil, why would they change her? Evil people need/want love too. Is this really a romance type of mod Iím looking at, Iíll say no, not in your classic romance, its an evil PC working on binding a powerful fighter/thief to themselves. That can have some interesting dialogue I believe, since you have to make sure that you appear more powerful and deserving than Valen, plus with Valen being evil and a vampire, can you really be good (Not that youíll want to) without losing Valen?

I would like to see something like this just to have more interaction between Valen and the PC, thatís my two cents.
                   

Auvrin

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2002, 12:13:27 PM »
I just played Valen through again, and I have a few suggestions that go against my first time reaction to a romance.   First off, I think Valen needs to be alittle more banter heavy.. It would add a bit more flavor and show the people just how evil she is. (Or even show she has potential to be trusted)

I still stand strongly with the idea of turning either Imoen or the PC into her new Master/Mistress.  It would be a bit more realistic to have her stay with the party for a new reason rather then the command of a dead Mistress that stabbed her in the back twice.  Besides, she wouldn't have any of the ties to her once she's dead.

At first, I said that she shouldn't be romancable.  After playing it again, I see why I answered it the way I did.  She needs more character to her.  I believe someone said the same thought that came to mind when I was going through again "She's more an animal then a NPC".  I think this is just simply due to the fact the PC doesn't have much interaction with her aside from telling her not to go berzerk.  If you added a bit more character to her, I could honestly see her being romancable, but I also think it should be an OPTION..  Her romance wouldn't be anything near the same as the other NPC's, due to the fact she is a vampire.  However, she is without her Mistress at that point, she's more then likely lost at what to do next.  No one said it has to be a happy ending for the romance, and to be honest I would be disapointed if it were.  I would suggest, to have Valen turn to the PC for guidence, and try to learn how to live on her own.. The PC being evil of course could abuse this and just outright turn her into a personal tool or actualy try to help her.  It would of course be a constant struggle for her to not drain the PC of their blood.. Which in the end she could be killed for or even leave the party because she can't handle the temptation.  Just some ideas.                    

chevalier des Trois-Tours

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2002, 06:09:15 PM »
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And what GOOD charicter would take Valen?  Or side with Bhodi, for that matter?
                   Hehe, Lucas the Cavallier would. Normally an ethos violation, but he *does* see some chance for her redemption :D. His having 20 charisma and 22 wisdom, this *does* make any sense.

Although no siding with body. Hope it's possible to get Valen w/o Bodhi. For example if we kill Bodhi she's no longer Valen's mistress.

Anyway redemption does not necessarily mean removing vampirism. Although this could still be possible in Aumantor's temple as a part of abduction by Bodhi quest just like I did with Aerie. Suggestions only, of course, Westley Weimer's in charge.                    

chevalier des Trois-Tours

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2002, 06:13:01 PM »
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You think it would be trashing it. Maybe other people would actually enjoy a well written Vampire romance? Rather then just "getting into a Vampire's pants."
I fully support you. Some guys give the impression that they need a full-time whore NPC rather than a romanceable one.

Also people generally tend to believe she's a walking corpse with no personality. How narrowminded. Have you any idea of reasons behind becoming a vampire or even of there being anything more than just waking up the day after your death?  The full scope of vampire's inner life is beyond standard human experience. Unless it's a far degraded vampire form, but Valen apparently isn't (those don't even speak). Does she really have to justify her actions? Before whom? You maybe? Or to care about any rationale? Sacrifice her personality, emotions and feelings for the sake of someone's ideas of her being unable to have any? Allow me please to leave those as rhetorical questions.

In case you haven't noticed, stranger things happen in real life.                    



[!--EDIT|chevalier des Trois-Tours|Dec 6 2002, 01:42 AM--]

thecursed

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2002, 06:22:07 PM »
how about a romance that would end up her turning back to human? first alignment change then you convince her the only way to carry on your growing love is to abandon undead power. quest to get the ingredientd to a certain temple,.... of course this would mean the end of the super vampire, but it would be an intersting choice for the player                    

Kish

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2002, 11:44:17 AM »
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Although no siding with body. Hope it's possible to get Valen w/o Bodhi.
                   No.  You have to side with Bodhi, or Valen will never join you.

And if she does join you, she'll kill a lot of innocent people, starting with the little boy from the Umar Hills, going on to the entire population of the Temple of Lathander and Order of the Radiant Heart, and concluding (at least in SoA...) with four vampire hunters.  Valen is evil and vicious--a monster in every sense.  If you want to roleplay Good, taking her along is out of the question.                    

Hendryk

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2002, 12:36:07 PM »
How about an Evil option in which Solaufein remains Undead and takes over Valen?  After all, he claimed he'd have been Bodhi's master in a few more days; what problem would Valen be to him?  Save the PC the trouble of negotiating that cold, clammy, level-draining skin...                    



[!--EDIT|Hendryk|Dec 6 2002, 08:37 PM--]

Kiki

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2002, 01:16:09 PM »
This has to be the best Valen Romance idea I've ever seen. Then they can leave the party together and Wes will no longer have to listen to people whining about not-enough-Sola-content (guilty as charged) OR why-can't-I-get-lucky-with-Valen.                    

chevalier des Trois-Tours

  • Guest
Valen romance
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2002, 06:16:58 PM »
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This has to be the best Valen Romance idea I've ever seen. Then they can leave the party together and Wes will no longer have to listen to people whining about not-enough-Sola-content (guilty as charged) OR why-can't-I-get-lucky-with-Valen.
With your permission, I advise you to read posts before replying to them.                    



[!--EDIT|chevalier des Trois-Tours|Dec 7 2002, 01:17 AM--]

 

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