Author Topic: Ilyich  (Read 5943 times)

Offline weimer

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Ilyich
« on: October 21, 2002, 07:49:16 PM »
By popular demand, the annoying "too many attacks, cheating invisibility, out of character" Rune Assassins have been removed. They have been replaced by hapless wand-using shadow thieves. Hey, no one crosses them and lives, you got it? In addition, the Glab (generally considered to be the weak link in the Ilyich Chain of Terror) can now dimension door ... so that he won't get stuck in doors.

I would appreciate it if the standard Ilyich afficianados (or just people who were annoyed by the Runies) would take a look and tell me if this is any better.

                   

Althernai

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Ilyich
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2002, 08:05:46 PM »
Downloading it now - to be honest, the Rune Assassins rather than the Ilyich gang themselves accounted for the majority of my reloads. Somehow, "nobody crosses the shadow thieves and lives" is not overly reassuring...                    

Althernai

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Ilyich
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2002, 10:09:41 PM »
OK, finished it (not out of the dungeon, but Ilyich &  Co. are dead). Protagonist is a halfling thief - at this stage of the game, utterly useless except for the two traps per day; picked up Immy, Minsc and Jaheira but did not go up to Yoshimo's floor yet.

The Shadow Thieves are definitely nicer than the Rune Assassins. With the Rune Assassins, everything had to go perfectly in order to win in an unbuffed fight (that is, it's easy if the Runi is attacking a Stoneskinned Sorcerer, but if you were to simply attack him unprotected, he'd massacre your entire party). With the Shadow Thieves, it's the other way around - in order for a character (mostly Jaheira) to die, everything has to go wrong for the player. They did get me to reload a couple of times - while resting, two of them show up together with War Dogs and everyone was badly in need of healing so they kill someone. Another time, I got over-confident and he just stunned everyone (except Imoen who seems to be immune to all of their tricks) and killed me. I also appreciate the fact that they don't do more than around 30 damage on a backstab - it's annoying when a fully healthy character instanly dies from a 70+ lucky hit.

The Glabrezu works just fine - I lured him out first, and had Imoen kill him with offensive spells. He did chase her for a long time - all the way into Rielev's room.                    



[!--EDIT|Althernai|Oct 22 2002, 05:09 AM--]

Piker

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Ilyich
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2002, 12:50:32 AM »
I did it too.  

PC was Half-Orc AntiPaladin.

I don't know if I was just unlucky but I found the wand totin' Shadow Thieves pretty darn hard, possibly harder than the Rune Assassins, but as I say I am not sure I wasn't just unlucky, as I only have tried the dungeon once.

A couple of times my whole party was awakened just in time to catch two Cones of Cold, once I fought through and survived with everyone very badly hurt, once they caused a reload due to complete wipeout.

As far as the Neo Glab, he got stuck as before, right at the door to the library, though he dimension door'ed over there, he didn't seem inclined to jump again.

I completed the dungeon, and had several odd things happen.

1)  Ulvaryl couldn't drain any of my characters

2)  The war dogs sometimes passed out and it wasn't immediately apparent why

Tough but doable, just requires patience.  I would suggest making the shadow thieves into thief/mages or your kensai/thieves, but that is just me.

Also, if you want a sickle in there somewhere - why not give ilyich a scimitar?  

                   

serjeLeBlade

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Ilyich
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2002, 04:27:29 AM »
@Weimer: very, very good idea! Thanks! (applauds and jumps up and down)   :D

I was tired to have Jaheira backstabbed to death every now and then (she still can't cast Ironskins)....  :(
Some wand trickery should add variety to the fights.
(Will we get to loot some wands, I wonder?)

For me, the real problem with the Rune assasins was that they didn't drop any good equipment... No bows, no arrows... What am I supposed to do with all these short swords+1 and nobody proficient with them?
(My pc is a ranger/cleric)...  :angry:                    

Offline weimer

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Ilyich
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2002, 11:04:22 AM »
Sounds pretty good so far.

(1) Did Ulvaryl ever level-drain characters? Note that nothing can level-drain Imoen1.

(2) Yes, you can loot the wands. Or the potions of invisibility.

(3) Sounds unlucky. Each assassin has a 1/4 chance of getting the wand of frost. So there was about a 6% chance that two of them would both have them. Try casting Protection From Cold.
                   

Piker

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Ilyich
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2002, 12:34:50 PM »
I think Ulvaryl did or does usually.  She has both the 3d effect and the level drain string playing when she hits, and if that's real smoke, there's probably a fire, though I don't remember for sure.

I didn't know the Magic Immie Belt had protection from level drain as well.  =( I know she hit Immie and I think she hit other characters but I am not sure.

You might want to consider reducing the probability of getting stomped while resting, maybe.

Is there any way to easily set it up so you can pick Immie's known spells at the start of the game?  

The potions of invisibility were very helpful as were the wands.  I even managed to Paralyze Karamazov using one.

I felt compelled to name my PC AP Raskolnikov, by the way.  =)

I wish that the Shadow Thieves still dropped healing potions.  Those were very helpful in the previous incarnation of this mod, especially considering the sheer bulk of assassins I had to kill and the amount of damage I took while doing it.






                   

Offline weimer

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Ilyich
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2002, 02:01:43 PM »
I will look into Ulvaryl. Do you have the Imoen Rom installed?

I do not know how to change the prob for getting interrupted while resting. It is either "0%" or "X%", where X is what we are seeing now. I don't know how/where to change it. Does anyone?

No good way to pick Immy's spells, sorry.

I'll consider giving the thieves some healing potions.                    

japheth

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Ilyich
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2002, 02:26:02 PM »
Quote
I do not know how to change the prob for getting interrupted while resting. It is either "0%" or "X%", where X is what we are seeing now. I don't know how/where to change it. Does anyone?

This is simply an educated guess, but it's probably in a 2da file somewhere.

I'd search for it myself right now, but I'm at work.                    

Piker

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Ilyich
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2002, 02:26:29 PM »
No Imoen stuff, beyond the Imoen / Kelsey stuff.                    

Offline weimer

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Ilyich
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2002, 06:13:41 PM »
Vaguely massive Ilyich update. Take a look at the README, let me know.

Ulvaryl drains levels here. You were probably just using Imoen.

(1) You can always rest now, you'll just get ambushed when you wake up.
(2) Should be fully compatible with Imoen Rom. [ Davide, would you be so kind as to confirm this with your setup? ]
(3) Otyugh upgrade.
(4) Healing potions for thieves.
(5) Poison weapons for thieves.
(6) Acrons are now magical. You can summon two dryads and a moose. You know you want to.
                   

Piker

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Ilyich
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2002, 06:20:26 PM »
Moose!  Woohoo!

Is Ilyich going to use the dread spell Summon: Moose on my hapless PC now?

Moose bites can be pretty nasti . . .

1)  Ambushed every time?

3)  Cool, that Otyugh was weak as a kitten.

4)  Good, thanks!

5)  Doh.

6)  Yeehaw!                    

Piker

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Ilyich
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2002, 08:27:27 PM »
Downloaded it, installed it, now crashing every time I wake up after sleeping :(.  I can sleep, but then I crash every time.

Bleh.

I am not sure how useful this will be since I have a *lot* of mods that possibly could be causing problems:

TOB + Patch + Baldurdash
then
Sola
Valen
Ritual
Kelsey 1.04
Kelsey TOB
EOU
Item Upgrade
Ascension
Improved Irenicus
Improved Hell Trials
Ilyich
and one small NPC mod of my own;

but the only thing that has changed recently is the Ilyich version.

I am probably going to end up starting with a new install of soa / tob soon anyway.                    

Offline weimer

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Ilyich
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2002, 08:46:40 PM »
If you have some spare time, try these experiments:

Press Ctrl-T six or seven times and observe that it crashes even though you haven't slept.

Try CLUAConsole:CreateCreature("ilythf01") and tell me if it crashes.

Remove override\ilythf01.cre, rest, and tell me if it crashes.

In an incredible surprise move, it doesn't crash for me ... so these are all shots in the dark.                    

Althernai

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Ilyich
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2002, 09:12:02 PM »
Quote
(1) You can always rest now, you'll just get ambushed when you wake up.
                   Wes, I just tried it with a brand new Sorcerer and I don't like this. I don't like it a lot. You get to sleep, yes - but then you are attack by 2-3 Shadow Thieves and 6-9 War Dogs (no, it doesn't crash for me). It always happens - I've tried it 4-5 times and I haven't won once - there is simply no time to use any spells and you always get either paralyzed, panicked or frozen. It is probably possible and not even that difficult to win, but only by wasting a lot of spells which would pretty much defeat the purpose of resting. Furthermore, the Thieves always poison you - even if you save and the protagonist only has so many Slow Poisons (and you can't use them if you want to cast a spell - this would be much easier with a warrior type than with my sorc).                    

Offline weimer

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Ilyich
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2002, 10:37:58 PM »
Fair enough. The rationale is that it really makes little sense to be resting a bit in the Irenicus Dungeon (as Imoen will point out!) but that there is currenlty no downside. What would you recommend? Here are some options, off the top of my head:

(1) have something go after you every two rests instead of every one
(2) make it some random percentage of the time (I personally don't like random losses)
(3) have fewer foes ambush you if you're taking too long
(4) have no one ambush you when you rest, but have extra foes gather in critical locations (e.g., at the portals, or by the exit) every X hours
                   

Dark Phantom

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Ilyich
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2002, 01:03:47 AM »
The only reason I have ever rested in the Chautou Irenicus is if I were a spell caster, or much more the one time I played Illych.    However, it is just that: They should start you with spell/spells memorized.  Actually, this is out of place, but do you think there is a way to do that, wes?  Change some files to have the PC have his spells, to be more in charicter?  Ofter all, Immy and Jeheira have them :).
                   

serjeLeBlade

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Ilyich
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2002, 03:16:12 AM »
Quote
Fair enough. The rationale is that it really makes little sense to be resting a bit in the Irenicus Dungeon
Absolutely true.
The only problem is that if the pc is a spellcaster, he needs to rest at least once (if he wants to actually do something in the game, I mean)  :(

So (1) looks good at first glance.
Too bad that knowing in advance taht you will be ambushed every two rests makes no sense... and encourages outright cheating...  ;)
You all know what I mean.

The random chance is the most realistic option... I'm sorry you don't like it!

I think I'll be sticking to v6 for now...
(unless I find trouble with Imoen Romance... what kind of problems should I expect from it? Looks like it's working for me till now...)                    



[!--EDIT|serjeLeBlade|Oct 23 2002, 10:25 AM--]

Althernai

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Ilyich
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2002, 08:58:28 AM »
Indeed, without at least one rest a spellcaster is pretty much useless. Could we get one rest for free (or start out with spells memorized - I don't think it is possible though as you have no way of knowing what spells the player wants his cleric or mage to memorize) and thereafter randomly? Or, maybe if you could just reduce the number of thieves and dogs that show up - have it sometimes 1 thief and 3 dogs and sometimes 2 and 6 rather than what you have now (3 thieves are highly lethal).                    

Piker

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Ilyich
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2002, 10:29:48 AM »
Quote
If you have some spare time, try these experiments:

Press Ctrl-T six or seven times and observe that it crashes even though you haven't slept.

Crash.

Quote
Try CLUAConsole:CreateCreature("ilythf01") and tell me if it crashes.

Crash.

Quote
Remove override\ilythf01.cre, rest, and tell me if it crashes.

No crash until PC goes into hallway past Aataqah (sp?).
                   

Offline weimer

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Ilyich
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2002, 11:14:07 AM »
OK, so your game doesn't like ilythf01.cre and ilyth.cre ... and I have no idea why. They are perfectly valid CRE files that load up here (and on other computers).

Do you have the latest official bioware patch involved? Did you remove temp, tempsave and cache?

If you are feeling *really generous*, would you be willing to test that "fresh SoA install + fresh ToB install + ToB patch + Baldurdash + Ilyich" crashes your computer?                    

Offline weimer

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Ilyich
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2002, 11:16:27 AM »
In the next release of Ilyich, you will not be ambushed in the first nine hours. So you get "one freebie" to set up everyone's spells.                    

Piker

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Ilyich
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2002, 11:24:58 AM »
I install the tob patch on the disc install and the baldurdash.

I have screwed up my game in other ways while making items, so yeah, I will probably reinstall in the next couple days.

Quote
OK, so your game doesn't like ilythf01.cre and ilyth.cre ... and I have no idea why. They are perfectly valid CRE files that load up here (and on other computers).


seemed odd to me too.                    



[!--EDIT|Piker|Oct 23 2002, 06:29 PM--]

Rassadihn

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Ilyich
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2002, 05:07:28 AM »
Quote
Quote
Fair enough. The rationale is that it really makes little sense to be resting a bit in the Irenicus Dungeon
Absolutely true.
The only problem is that if the pc is a spellcaster, he needs to rest at least once (if he wants to actually do something in the game, I mean)  :(
Not true. There are two ways I know of to circumvent this:

- Import a BG I char. You'll at least have the *cleric* spells you had memorized by the end of BG I; not your arcane spells due to the reselection of your repertoire. (OK, so this is obscure and not very useful - but it *does work*. :-)
- Play the tutorial. What? Yes, the tutorial. Amazingly enough, if you start the game by playing through the tutorial you get to keep any spells you memorized in there.

Since anybody can play the tutorial and nobody wants to, could the game be changed to allow a single rest at the start, before you leave your cage at all? I'm thinking about modifying the cutscene, delaying Imoen's miraculous escape for oh, I don't know, eight hours while keeping you locked up, and some deus ex machina source of explanation for it.

Of course, this would interfere with the "Shorter Cutscenes" component from Ease of Use, but I think it's worth it. This is Improved Ilyich we're talking about; why should everyone but the protagonist be able to pull their weight? If there ever was a time for wondering why all those nice people want to be in a party with a schmuck like you for a leader, this has to be it.

Comments?                    



[!--EDIT|Rassadihn|Oct 24 2002, 12:12 PM--]

Offline weimer

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« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2002, 06:29:18 PM »
The game could in fact be easily modified to have Player1 recover all spells right at the beginning.

I should have thought of it earlier. Sigh!

It's a simple matter of adding ~ActionOverride(Player1,Rest())~ somewhere. Say, right after Imoen's "wake up you, wake up" comment. Or as an EXTEND_TOP to AR0602.BCS. The rest action recharges spells/items/powers but does not take any time.

My laptop exploded on me so I won't be able to get to it this evening, but I'm sure I can fit it in at some point.                    



[!--EDIT|weimer|Oct 24 2002, 05:29 PM--]

 

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