Author Topic: The Eclipse party  (Read 9854 times)

Littiz

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2002, 06:14:46 AM »
@Aubrey, it's your fault!!!
I wanted that on core!!
Oh, all right,  my supergood char won't allow Vorpal Blades in the
party this time..... B)                    

Aubrey

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2002, 01:32:24 AM »
Quote
@Aubrey, it's your fault!!!
I wanted that on core!!

No, it's not my fault. Weimer is the one to decide what is to be done and what not.

And so far, Death Ward is on Core!!

                   

KaPe

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2002, 12:54:33 PM »
Ok, I tried new Eclipse... it wasn't *so* tough(i didn't use vorpals anyway), and actually I think that spellcaster should be somewhat smarter - one of them tried to kill mordy(finally, after about 3x eclipses he casts death fog, what about death spell?) second was throwing energy blades at simulacrum, and third one was casting sanctuary, and healing my own simulacrum :blink:  I think the healing part happened somewhere else too, but i'm not certain( those "slightly better mages" propably) Once again sorry for my english :unsure:                    

Userunfriendly

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2002, 01:34:42 PM »
AHA!!! so targetting is off, eh???

a few multiple misleads triggered by spell sequenced spells should protect the mages...looks like they arent scripted to do a lot of true sights, either...

so have your very vulnerable mages cast milseads. the party should go for them as higher priority than the npcs...eclipse is set to ignore summons...but simmys and mislead clones occupy a higher targetting priority for all enemy ai's...

also here is a trick...

you know the belt of con from unseeing eye???

have your weaker people use it, like aerie and gain 40% increase in hp, then stick into bag of holding, recharges, and move on to next member...sola for example needs it badly...aerie and tashia too...                    

alson

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2002, 02:01:56 PM »
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Now that's what I call a well-bred friend. :D  

Thank you, gentlemen. Hopefully this time I won't have to reconsider. :)
LOL!  :D
You welcome...                    

alson

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2002, 02:07:17 PM »
Quote
Ok, I tried new Eclipse... it wasn't *so* tough(i didn't use vorpals anyway), and actually I think that spellcaster should be somewhat smarter - one of them tried to kill mordy(finally, after about 3x eclipses he casts death fog, what about death spell?) second was throwing energy blades at simulacrum, and third one was casting sanctuary, and healing my own simulacrum :blink:  I think the healing part happened somewhere else too, but i'm not certain( those "slightly better mages" propably) Once again sorry for my english :unsure:
                   On what level are you playing, KaPe?
It's important, because Weimer was kind enough to make an 'difficulty-dependent' AI, Ascension-like.                    

Aubrey

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2002, 02:48:55 PM »
Quote
"... for those who never try, they are SURE to fail!!"


Ah, I'm so glad Littiz decided to bring up his old signature. Bravo, Littiz! :)


                   

Littiz

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2002, 02:55:40 PM »
Quote
"... for those who never try, they are SURE to fail!!"

 
Ah, I'm so glad Littiz decided to bring up his old signature. Bravo, Littiz!

Oh, you know, my signatures rotate, come and go... all but one :rolleyes:                    

Aubrey

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2002, 03:31:56 PM »
Quote
Oh, you know, my signatures rotate, come and go... all but one


Mmmm...Ever forward, my darling wind...?? :)                    

Littiz

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2002, 11:04:53 AM »
Indeed, @Aubrey, that one!
anyway....
....
WoW!!!!!!!!
I've done it!!! The Eclipse party is defeated!
FIVE attempts needed....
But without cheese absolutely, and, WITHOUT CASUALTIES!!!
Only Immie a bit wounded, just a bit...:D
Surely I've been lucky with timings and such...

Being warned by Sola that they would come at night outdoors,
I allowed myself some buffing with long-duration spells:
Stoneskins, Prot. from Evil 10 radius, Prot. from fear...
Also I changed Tashia Chain Contigency with 2 Abi + Prot Magical Weap.
on enemy sight (I don't like such "preparations", but it was needed...)
I knew what to expect from what I had already read, still,
the first attempts ended in two seconds with my party slaughtered
and Eclipse at FULL strenght!
Really scaring... all chunked like insects...
Then I understood that, for instance, Jaheira could only retreat.
No way for her Ironskins to protect her... better to flee.
Also kept together the party suffered too much from the initial Dragon's Breath.

So: battle starts, Jaheira retreats. Tashia is a bit aside, her Chain
kills some shadows, plus she gets Prot.from Magical weapons..
She starts Imp. Alacrity.
My char (cleric/thief) is "in charge" to make some steps forward and
attract the Dragon's Breath, while the others try to stay clear... I have
some nice fire-resistance gear, and couldn't do much more, anyway.
I have also a stoneskin thanks to the Gargoyle Boots, but it won't last long..
Immie plainly casts Teleport Field, by Alson's suggestion! ;),
then goes invisible again with the Staff.
Sola casts something and engages an enemy.
Luckily they head towards Tashia... she's protected..I don't know if the Remove Magic
hit her, maybe she was out of range, or maybe she won the check... she's high in
level... Alacrity comes, so she casts Spell Immunity:Abjuration, and 4 Remove Magic
on the enemies, "crossing" somehow the areas.
ONLY THEN she casts Greater Malison and a couple of Slow
and Glitterdusts, otherwise these would have been dispelled by her own Remove
Magic!!!

Then she continues with Dragon's Breaths, and Planetar, leaving ONE 9th level spell,
I want another alacrity...
Just in time I remember Total Eclipse is coming! So she casts another
Prot. From Magic Weapons.
Perfect timing (fewhh..), they strike at her and waste attacks, sparing
my PC!!! Sola casts Prot. From Magic Weapons too, when time flows again
finally Tashia's spells trigger!
At least one of them dies, the Druid IIRC (what a chaos...), they're cursed,
maybe slowed, who knows, I know only that I manage to survive, thanx to Teleport Field
too!
For sure I see the Sorcerer who tries to kill the Planetar I directed to her!
This until Tashia casts Alacrity again... this time I "Improved Haste"
all my party!!!! Then go for Abi's...
Also she unloads her Spell Trigger, which already had, triple Chain Lightning...
I survive another Total Eclipse, my PC has conveniently used a Mislead Scroll
(this I consider a fine use of UAI, without duplicating items...)
Jaheira enters the fight now from afar, with BloodBane and Whirlwinds..
the Planetar dies by Energy Blades or something, so Immie casts hers!
They all die by my fury, the Sorceress tries to kill the second Planetar but
now I can focus on her with the entire party, dispel and kill!
In the same moment her protections are taken down the Planetar scores a vorpal,
thus sparing her 2 or 3 seconds of suffering!! :D                    

Littiz

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2002, 11:07:50 AM »
:rolleyes:
Luck surely made the challenge way shorter than it could be, still
I had a lot of fun!
The dialog was terrific! :D                    

KaPe

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2002, 11:41:20 AM »
I tried the Eclipse on Core ( the one i described) and Hard... - there was NO Total Eclipse during that one... bug, or what? I didn't notice great increase in AI... no offense of course...                    

Userunfriendly

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2002, 11:45:09 AM »
well...my current party is going to be called....

"armor is for whimps!!!!!"

bun bun...
tashia
sola
kelcy
immie
aerie...

talk about fragile...

talk about the spell power!!!!!
no one uses armor, everyone uses stoneskins.

 :P                    

Userunfriendly

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2002, 11:49:03 AM »
oopse..

my point is i am absolutely going to have to cheese eclipse...

two fighters and all spell casters....ick...

kape...you managed to kill the sorc, i think who has the spell...

see..alson,  spell immunity is the key...littiz, you should have loaded up jahirea with regen spells...might have made all the difference...protected immie better, and tashia...

had to drop jahiera....getting kelcy for immie...                    

KaPe

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2002, 11:54:57 AM »
"(...)you managed to kill the sorc, i think who has the spell... "
The sorc was last to die, as well as other spellcaster - anti-paladin =] barb =] ken =] druid =] cler =] sorc...
One more question... which fight is easier? Normal eclipse party, or console created (haven't tried the first one yet
 :rolleyes:   , assuming that i don't buff myself too much, only some basics spells, like imp. haste, armor of faith, stoneskin,and hardiness in 1st round, without contingency and sequencers?)                    

alson

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2002, 01:10:16 PM »
Quote
Indeed, @Aubrey, that one!
anyway....
....
WoW!!!!!!!!
I've done it!!! The Eclipse party is defeated!
FIVE attempts needed....
But without cheese absolutely, and, WITHOUT CASUALTIES!!!
Only Immie a bit wounded, just a bit...:D
Surely I've been lucky with timings and such...
Congrats, Littiz!
Welcome to the club!  :D

Quote
Immie plainly casts Teleport Field, by Alson's suggestion! ;)
Glad to help!  :)

Quote
ONLY THEN she casts Greater Malison and a couple of Slow
and Glitterdusts, otherwise these would have been dispelled by her own Remove
Magic!!!
I don't think that Remove Magic dispels hostile spell effect like Slow or Malsion... Are you sure on this?

                   

Kish

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2002, 05:21:15 PM »
Remove Magic has a chance of dispelling all spell effects, friendly or hostile, but only on enemies of the caster.                    

Offline weimer

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The Eclipse party
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2002, 05:41:43 PM »
Excellent work, Littiz. I'm glad to hear that you were able to defeat them so swiftly. Nice strategy.

KaPe, if you're not seeing the Total Eclipse within 3 or 4 rounds, it's some sort of bug and you should reinstall.

If you are finding the Eclipse Fight "too easy", you have reached the current pinnacle of BG2 tactics (presuming you also find the Ascension final battle easy, which is likely if the first bit is true). Nothing harder is currently available. :-(                    

Aubrey

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2002, 05:43:40 PM »
Quote
WoW!!!!!!!!
I've done it!!! The Eclipse party is defeated!
FIVE attempts needed....
But without cheese absolutely, and, WITHOUT CASUALTIES!!!

Well done, Littiz!

Next I suppose it's my turn. :rolleyes: Okay, I hope I'll do it.

As usual, I haven't read tacticts and things like that; I haven't even read Alson's suggestions and advice here...  No offense, Alson, but I like fighting battles without having read about them, and without knowing what other people did in their games. That's me.  :)


P.S. What do you think about the Sneaks mini-battle? (Yiaks! I hate them! Yes, I know: I hate the majority of BG's monster population...)


                   

Littiz

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2002, 04:48:21 AM »
Swiftly?! Alson made them swiftly! :P

To improve the challenge there's still a lot to do, player's side...
I'd want to avoid a specific setting of Chain, for instance.
Or face them without resting beforehand, caught a little
by surprise...
Who knows if you have enough left to handle them!
I'm sure Wes could do the IA even smarter, the point is,
is there need to???
Or improve their buffing... imagine all the Eclipse party
with Kuroisan-like buffing... OUCH!!!!!!
:blink:
About the IA, I find it very smart and realistic.
Let me explain:
Just imagine to be there, you're one of the party.
You see all happening fast, surely you don't know what
your companions are about to do, and surely you can't recognize
all the spells that the enemy has active...
Probably you'd just try your most powerful spell, or go with
whirlwind and hope.
They do the same.
I mean, we can win this battles only thanx to the PAUSE feature
(which of course is the ULTIMATE piece of cheese...),
try without it and you won't think anymore that the enemy is
dumb......
Two seconds and you see only dead party members
                   

Kish

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2002, 05:00:33 AM »
Quote
and surely you can't recognize
all the spells that the enemy has active...
I speculated a while ago, on the BG newsgroup, that the reason CharName is described as the most powerful Bhaalspawn, with the most of Bhaal's essence, is not because of the half-dozen low-level priest spells or the wimpy Slayer form, or the eventual pocket plane, or any number of advantages the player has from the fact that it is a computer game.  Rather, CharName has, right from Candlekeep, the Bhaalspawn power of always knowing what spells are being used against him or her.                    

alson

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2002, 07:26:44 AM »
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Swiftly?! Alson made them swiftly! :P


try without it and you won't think anymore that the enemy is
dumb......
Two seconds and you see only dead party members
                   Thank you, Littiz!
Still, I was in a pretty high level, and playing with a party of six...
It would have been much harder with a party of three, like Wes did it.

Quote
Or improve their buffing... imagine all the Eclipse party
with Kuroisan-like buffing... OUCH!!!!!!
:blink:
IMHO, it's not K's buffing that makes him so hard - it's his equipment. His buffing is important, but if he wouldn't wear the Robe and Cloak of Cheese, he would have been much more easy.

Quote
About the IA, I find it very smart and realistic.
Let me explain:
Just imagine to be there, you're one of the party.
You see all happening fast, surely you don't know what
your companions are about to do, and surely you can't recognize
all the spells that the enemy has active...
Probably you'd just try your most powerful spell, or go with
whirlwind and hope.
They do the same.
I agree. The AI is superb.

Quote
I mean, we can win this battles only thanx to the PAUSE feature
(which of course is the ULTIMATE piece of cheese...)
Sooooo true!! I'm so used to pause, so for me, a pause-less game is harder the soloing a plain thief, no reloads, on insane. Worse then Total Eclipse! :D  :P                    

El Diablo

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2002, 09:05:49 AM »
indeed if we would try without pause then we would get killed
but without the pause option the enemy would be cheatin aswell since it has the power to give different commands to different enemies simutaniously (am i spellin this right) which is a power the player has not (unless you have god like reflexes)                    

Feyd-Rautha

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2002, 05:31:46 PM »
Well done to all and thanks to you westley. It's an awesome fight and a fabulously funny dialogue. I just killed the eclipse myself and Kelsey did all the killing. I have TDD installed and had equipped the robe of Vecna, the Amulet of Power and a dagger from the shadow dragon (-5 spellcasting time, either from tdd or from freedom's reign). As a result Kelsey would cast nearly any spell instantaniously. So the combo was: Imp Alacrity, 4 Remove Magics, Greater Malison and last but not least, 7 Abi-Dalzims. It killed all but the Sorcerer who was a sitting duck for my heavy fighter party.


I personally find the instant spells pretty cheesy and I try to avoid it but sometimes it is fun to look powerful (Kelsey also had the Jan Spectroscopes way :P ; BTW do those do anything?). Kelsey alone could kill anything that isn't immune to all spells or that casts instant time stops.                    

Littiz

  • Guest
The Eclipse party
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2002, 05:52:34 AM »
Quote
indeed if we would try without pause then we would get killed
but without the pause option the enemy would be cheatin aswell since it has the power to give different commands to different enemies simutaniously (am i spellin this right) which is a power the player has not (unless you have god like reflexes)

You're right, yet the player has an enormous advantage, he can coordinate his party as a whole, as each party member knew what the others are about to do, so pausing unbalances the odds towards him!
I still think the IA is very realistic, yet we could want it even more deadlier, who knows.

@Alson: forgot...
I knew about Remove Magic 'cause I happened to dispel with it my own CHARM from an enemy!!!! :angry: :P                    



[!--EDIT|Littiz|Sep 1 2002, 12:55 PM--]

 

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