Author Topic: Beating weimer on insane!  (Read 5653 times)

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« on: August 11, 2002, 12:59:51 PM »
For my next game, i intend to take a challenge - beating all weimer's challenges on insane - EVERYTHING, including Improved Ilyich (ouch!), Improved Bodhi (big ouch!), improved Irenicus (very big ouch!), and, of course, the almighty Eclipse party (biggest ouch :D)... Oh, and the Ascension battles also.
Call me masochist...  :P  :D

So, what party would you suggest?
From what i've seen, weimer's challenges require a balanced party - you need a good mage, you need some clerical support, and you need A LOT of melee power.
So, i'm planning to play with this party:
Me, the female Ranger/Cleric
Chloe, the lesbian Kensai
Rowan, my Assassin/Fighter friend
Kelsey, the Sorcerer who will (hopefully, depending on Jcompton) romance -Imoen, the Blade
And... Last but not least - the best drow in the game that we all love - Sola!

Do you guys think that this party can beat Weimer's challenges on insane, or will i get slaughtered? I'm really interested to test my playing abilities and tactics against Weimer's wonderful AI.  
 :)                    

reiella

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2002, 02:10:10 PM »
I suggest a temp party member until you can get Solaufein.

The Improved Sahaugin City is more than slightly harsh, although you could 'skip' it, but then you aren't doing all the challenges now are you? :)                    

Aubrey

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2002, 02:33:36 PM »
Quote
For my next game, i intend to take a challenge - beating all weimer's challenges on insane - EVERYTHING, including Improved Ilyich (ouch!), Improved Bodhi (big ouch!), improved Irenicus (very big ouch!), and, of course, the almighty Eclipse party (biggest ouch )... Oh, and the Ascension battles also.
Call me masochist...  


Alson,

You are a masochist! ;) :rolleyes:   :P                      

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2002, 02:58:08 PM »
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I suggest a temp party member until you can get Solaufein.

There's no need for that - i already have a Sorcerer for Sola's arcane side, and warriors for Sola's melee side.
On the other hand, if i'll play with five members, i'll be in a higher level when i'll get Sola - which means he'll be on a higher level, too.


Quote
Alson,

You are a masochist!     ;)  :rolleyes:  :P

:)
Yes, i probably am, but i want a challenge...
I'm sure i picked the right one!  :D
BTW, do you think this is a suitable party for the challenge?

PS
Anybody soloed with weimer mods installed? Including the Ritual?
Now, that IS a real challenge...                    

Offline weimer

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2002, 03:12:53 PM »
If you're blatantly power-gaming it to try and cope with Weimer's challenges, you might want to swap Rowan and take Valen. Unless Rowan has something really really special going on, she's likely to be decidedly less powerful than the Vamp Princess.

IRRC, Chloe is some sort of demigod, so you've got some power there. The K-Man will be the weak link until you start geting ToB HLAs. Solo Sorcs are powerful precisely because they start casting high-powered spells way too early and you don't have to find scrolls to use them. A level 15 Kelsey is nice enough power-wise, but three mordies and four imp hastes may not be sufficient. However, when he starts being able to do timestop/alacrity hideousness, he'll shine.

Ranger/Cleric, eh? Strong, but only at high levels. Hope you like buffing. You and Sola will both need it. Will you be using Ages yourself?

Imp Ilyich will probably give you fits early on. TorGal (a normal early game bastion) will also be tricky. I recommend putting off the Sola Vamping as long as possible -- Imp Bodhi + Undead Sola is a well-established source of PC death. :-)

You can also hold off on the Ritual until you have ToB-abilities, but it does offer huge amounts of money in the early game (easily 100,000 if you sell all the stuff) which can be quite the siren's call if you have your eye on some item upgrade.  

What hints can I offer? Hmm. If you're feeling brave, you could try to run through the Sola romance *real fast*, just to get to the reward. I'm not sure whether you'd want the blade or the moonray for this game. The blade is more useful early on (especially if you're using Ages for the PC), but in the end-game Alacrity + 3x Moonray can be broken (that is, you expect it to kill all enemies on screen) and the utility of lunar spell memorization scales with his level.

Another good hint is to raid the first level of the Watcher's Keep early. Firetooth (not useful for your party, maybe for blade-immy) and Usuno (probably not useful) are good, as is the Crimson Dart (give it to Kelsey).

Does Chloe use katanas? Hold off on the Imp GC until you have a mage or two that can cast Pro-Magic-Energy on all party members.

The Shield of Reflection is lovely against the Ritual and the Imp Sahu City (note that it won't reflect the bolts back onto the Sahu, but it will protect your point-person until they get too close).

Keep scrolls of Stoneskin and Pro-Magic-Weapons so that any thieves who get UAI can eventually cast them.

"Watch out for Shadows -- they move when you're not looking."                    

Aubrey

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2002, 03:13:54 PM »
@ Alson --

I believe your party is good, pretty good actually. Personally I always take dear Keldy along. I can barely imagine a party without him.


[*Aubrey pointing at Alson*]

He cannot be caged.
He cannot be controlled.
He probably cannot be contained either.
Understand this as you die,
ever pathetic, ever fools.
:P  :D                    

Offline weimer

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2002, 03:15:01 PM »
I have solo'd with all of the Weimer mods installed. Including the Ritual.

Actually, the game is typically easier soloing because you can put all of your protection on one person: cloak of cheese, intertial belt, kangaxx, +2 ring, preserving boots, etc.

Early game key: pick a gnome, dwarf of halfling for the +5 saves.

Late game key: Not required, 'cause you'll have way too much XP by the midgame. Just don't make any mistakes.

The Ritual is very scary, but if you're way too strong (say, you have 4M XP) you won't have problems.                    

Aubrey

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2002, 03:28:34 PM »
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I have solo'd with all of the Weimer mods installed. Including the Ritual.


Weimer,

You're scaring me, do you know that?                      

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2002, 03:44:45 PM »
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If you're blatantly power-gaming it to try and cope with Weimer's challenges, you might want to swap Rowan and take Valen. Unless Rowan has something really really special going on, she's likely to be decidedly less powerful than the Vamp Princess.

No, i don't like blatantly power-gaming - i want this to be a good aligment party. I'm sure that Valen will be more powerful than Rowan - but Rowan will fit to this party, and she's a Assassin/Fighter - not a bad class at all, i would say.

Quote
IRRC, Chloe is some sort of demigod, so you've got some power there. The K-Man will be the weak link until you start geting ToB HLAs. Solo Sorcs are powerful precisely because they start casting high-powered spells way too early and you don't have to find scrolls to use them. A level 15 Kelsey is nice enough power-wise, but three mordies and four imp hastes may not be sufficient. However, when he starts being able to do timestop/alacrity hideousness, he'll shine.

Yes, Chloe is indeed a demigod. I don't think she'll be weak - she wont tank at all, me and sola will tank, while she will slaughter everybody :).
About Kelsey - IMHO, Sorcerers gain true power at level 16, when they get 8th level spells - which, for me, means ADHW, and at this level, i already have PI and Mordies... Pretty powerful setup.

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Ranger/Cleric, eh? Strong, but only at high levels. Hope you like buffing. You and Sola will both need it. Will you be using Ages yourself?

Yes, my thoughts exactly. I don't like buffing, but i know i'll need it. The R/C got TONS of good buffing - DUHM, IRONSKINS, Shield of the Archons, Free Action, Chaotic Command, and so on.
I still havn't decided - if i'm the main tank, a shield will help. On the other hand, i have Ironskins, so maybe i'll dual-wield. Freedom's Reign and Reign of Virtue (which i have installed) do offer some nifty shields.... But i think i'll dual-wield FoA + Crom...

Quote
Imp Ilyich will probably give you fits early on. TorGal (a normal early game bastion) will also be tricky. I recommend putting off the Sola Vamping as long as possible -- Imp Bodhi + Undead Sola is a well-established source of PC death. :-)

Yes, improved Ilyich will be a nightmare, mainly because i dont have Ironskins at that level. About Tor'Gal - with Ironskins and alot of buffing, he's doable. About Bodhi and Co. - at that level i'll already have Timestop and Improved Alacrity - which almost ends the battle (it worked at my current game).

Quote
You can also hold off on the Ritual until you have ToB-abilities, but it does offer huge amounts of money in the early game (easily 100,000 if you sell all the stuff) which can be quite the siren's call if you have your eye on some item upgrade.

The Ritual isn't THAT tough - i can beat it with a level ~16 party, or even with a level 16 Kelsey, like i said above.

Quote
What hints can I offer? Hmm. If you're feeling brave, you could try to run through the Sola romance *real fast*, just to get to the reward. I'm not sure whether you'd want the blade or the moonray for this game. The blade is more useful early on (especially if you're using Ages for the PC), but in the end-game Alacrity + 3x Moonray can be broken (that is, you expect it to kill all enemies on screen) and the utility of lunar spell memorization scales with his level.

OK, i'll remember that. Thanks.

Quote
Another good hint is to raid the first level of the Watcher's Keep early. Firetooth (not useful for your party, maybe for blade-immy) and Usuno (probably not useful) are good, as is the Crimson Dart (give it to Kelsey).

Of course - i'll do the first two floors pre-UD, and the other floors post-UD.
Too many good weapons, there :). Too bad Cromwell can't upgrade them :(

Quote
Does Chloe use katanas? Hold off on the Imp GC until you have a mage or two that can cast Pro-Magic-Energy on all party members.

Chloe uses, AFAIK, Scimitars and Short Swords. She has great personal weapons. But i'll give Sola some points in Scimitars.

Quote
The Shield of Reflection is lovely against the Ritual and the Imp Sahu City (note that it won't reflect the bolts back onto the Sahu, but it will protect your point-person until they get too close).

Keep scrolls of Stoneskin and Pro-Magic-Weapons so that any thieves who get UAI can eventually cast them.

Damn!! The Shield of Reflection!! Why didn't i thought about it when i was fighting the Ritual? Oh well, next time :)


Thanks for the help - you are, once again, a great source of inforamtion.
Any seggustions for an other party to get through the challenge?
I do want Chloe, Kelsey, Sola and Rowan - the other two spots are open.                    

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2002, 03:51:04 PM »
Quote
@ Alson --

I believe your party is good, pretty good actually. Personally I always take dear Keldy along. I can barely imagine a party without him.


[*Aubrey pointing at Alson*]

He cannot be caged.
He cannot be controlled.
He probably cannot be contained either.
Understand this as you die,
ever pathetic, ever fools.
:P :D

LOL!  :D
I added the sig, now.
Look at the bottom of it ;) :)                    

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2002, 04:29:24 PM »
Quote
I have solo'd with all of the Weimer mods installed. Including the Ritual.

With what class?
Probably a Sorcerer, right?                    

Offline jcompton

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2002, 04:42:11 PM »
(Jason puts his money on Beastmaster.)                    
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2002, 04:54:05 PM »
Quote
(Jason puts his money on Beastmaster.)

LOL!  :D

Jason, i know it's off-topic, but may i ask how is the Kelsey-Imoen romance going?
Will it implemented in the Kelsey-ToB release?
I'm really interested in it...
                   

Offline jcompton

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2002, 04:59:40 PM »
K/I romance has been written for some time now, it's quite nice, I like it. :) Kelsey-TOB is in beta testing, and it's in there. As Wes is one of my beta testers I'll thank you all to stop bothering him and let him test. :)                    



[!--EDIT|jcompton|Aug 11 2002, 05:59 PM--]
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2002, 05:10:00 PM »
Quote
K/I romance has been written for some time now, it's quite nice, I like it. :) Kelsey-TOB is in beta testing, and it's in there. As Wes is one of my beta testers I'll thank you all to stop bothering him and let him test. :)

Thank you so much for that info, Jason!  :)
I've read somewhere that the K/I romance is on hold for a while, and it really upset me, because i based my entire party on it! Damn disinformation...
We'll all be a one, big, happy familiy - 2 Bhallspawns, 1 demigod, and a Sorcerer... What more can we ask for?   :D

And, if the K/I romance dialogue is half as good as the K/PC romance dialogue, i love it already!  :)                    

Aubrey

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2002, 06:21:32 AM »
Quote
LOL!  
I added the sig, now.
Look at the bottom of it  

--------------------
I cannot be caged.
I cannot be controlled.
Understand this as you die,
ever pathetic, ever fools.

And thnx for reminding me, Aubrey!

Alson,

Firstly, you forgot that "I probably cannot be contained either" bit out.  :P  :D

And, secondly, please take my name out of your signature. It makes me feel like being the King's jester.  :D


                   

Userunfriendly

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2002, 10:56:45 PM »
alson, how about bun bun???

version 4 should be out this week, as i start my creative phase tonite, but i am also studying...

i hate token ring lan switching!!!

bun bun version 4 will still be a sorc kensai, but i plan to give her inquisitor immunites,  testing stuff out tonite...

and enrage...

should make her killer, eh???

she will be explicitly built to enjoy chloe, and i'm thinking the wes items mod and kelcy with imoen romance                    

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2002, 09:58:46 AM »
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Alson,

Firstly, you forgot that "I probably cannot be contained either" bit out.  :P  :D

And, secondly, please take my name out of your signature. It makes me feel like being the King's jester.  :D
Fixed!
though for some reason, the smilies don't look like smilies in the sig!                    

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2002, 10:01:49 AM »
Quote
alson, how about bun bun???

version 4 should be out this week, as i start my creative phase tonite, but i am also studying...

i hate token ring lan switching!!!

bun bun version 4 will still be a sorc kensai, but i plan to give her inquisitor immunites,  testing stuff out tonite...

and enrage...

should make her killer, eh???

she will be explicitly built to enjoy chloe, and i'm thinking the wes items mod and kelcy with imoen romance
                   LOL... No, i think i'll save bun bun for the next time i'll play evil...
bun bun and valen...  :huh:  :o  :D  :lol:

Anyway, anymore suggestions for a party?
                   

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2002, 02:21:28 PM »
Quote
If you're blatantly power-gaming it to try and cope with Weimer's challenges, you might want to swap Rowan and take Valen. Unless Rowan has something really really special going on, she's likely to be decidedly less powerful than the Vamp Princess.
Oh...
I've just visited Chloe's forum, and saw something interesting...
Chloe is not Natural Good as i thought. She is True Natural..
That means that maybe i can allow myself to allow valen in...
And it will also allow me to start the game earlier, because i think Rowan is still pretty far...
Then, i'll have a party of 3 good char (kelsey, imoen, sola), 1 natural (chloe), and 1 evil (valen)...
But still, the druid/clerical role with tanking abilities is up to me...
And as such, i think that the multi Ranger/Cleric is the best.
Any thoughts?                    

Aubrey

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2002, 02:43:27 PM »
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She is True Natural..

You mean True Neutral?  :)

Quote
And as such, i think that the multi Ranger/Cleric is the best.

Why not trying a Berseker/ Cleric? VonDondu had created a nice Berseker/ Cleric for my ToB game for me. I am not aware of a Ranger/Cleric virtues, but that Berseker/ Cleric was really good. First time I used this class though, and only after VonDondu's suggestion (I wanted to take Sarevok with me, and Anomen was the only one to say "Ladies and Gentlemen, goodnight!")

                   

reiella

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2002, 03:07:37 PM »
Ranger/Cleric gets access to all Druid and all Cleric spells.  Not sure on their access to HLAs however.                    

Aubrey

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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2002, 03:14:51 PM »
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Ranger/Cleric gets access to all Druid and all Cleric spells.

Oh, okay then. It sounds pretty good. I don't think Alson will have problems... plus he seems quite the experience battle guy, so...

                   

alson

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2002, 03:57:08 AM »
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You mean True Neutral?  :)

Oops... :)
I'm not an english native speaker, so i'm allowed to make spelling mistakes, right?? :P

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Oh, okay then. It sounds pretty good. I don't think Alson will have problems... plus he seems quite the experience battle guy, so...

Thank you, Aubrey!  :)
I'm flattered!

Oh, an yes, reiella is right - a ranger/cleric has access to all cleric AND druid spell - so, unlike the Berserker/Cleric (still an amazing class!), he can also cast ironskins, insect plague, summon fire elementals, cast nature's beauty, and so on... Plus, he's a multi - and i prefer multis over duals in ToB.                    

Aubrey

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Beating weimer on insane!
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2002, 09:44:38 AM »
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Oops...
I'm not an english native speaker, so i'm allowed to make spelling mistakes, right??

Neither do I. And you know I said it in friendly way, right? Right! :)


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Thank you, Aubrey!  
I'm flattered!


No flattery at all! I've read many battle comments of you, and that's what I believe. Hey, I haven't killed Impr. Irenicus yet... :rolleyes:  :angry:


Cheers                    

 

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