Author Topic: Components  (Read 3070 times)

Offline Quitch

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Components
« on: July 23, 2002, 04:54:42 PM »
It seems to me that the components element of WeiDU is being... misused.  Surely its purpose is to allow extra features of a mod to be included, say like AI detectable spells, "lite" AI for better performance, additional fights related to the mod...

Yet, this feature seems to be used as a way to piggy back one mod with another.  Where is the logic in this?  Why should I have to download Ascension to get a dialogue fix?  What logic is there in providing harder battles with a new NPC?  What has the one to do with the other?

Presumably the next mod released by someone will also have a component which changes the colour of Imoen's skirt and a fix for a game ending bug, which is only avaliable if you download their mod.

It simply makes for a great way to get these self-contained mods overlooked.  What would make more sense is something like an "Improved fights" mod, where each fight was an individual component.  The current system is plain silly.

We may as well make a single download with every mod as a component the way things are going.                    
Past: Ascension
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Offline weimer

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Components
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2002, 05:36:07 PM »
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Why should I have to download Ascension to get a dialogue fix?

You don't have to, we just didn't know where else to put it. People downloading Ascension have an incentive to have Imoen and Sarevok around, so they will probably benefit from getting Immy's dialogue. I also put it in the Ease-of-Use mod. I could just put it up as a D file as well. I'm not trying to restrict it, I'm trying to get it out there.

In addition, it's not actually a "component" of Ascension, it is automatically installed with the main bit.

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What logic is there in providing harder battles with a new NPC?

In my mind, there was a big benefit in gathering all of these mods that were otherwise being overlooked (because they were hidden away in Yahoo group filespaces) into one place. They may not have the conceptual coherence of "these are all Solaufein battles" but they do have the conceptual coherence of "these are all things Weimer found interesting".

The real benefit was that you didn't have to download Setup-Foo.exe each time. Most of the improved battle bits are 20K or so. Lashing them to a 180K EXE didn't make sense. Putting them all together ameliorates the cost and makes it easier for people to find them.

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It simply makes for a great way to get these self-contained mods overlooked.

In my experience, it's exactly the opposite. I've heard many more people comment on Smarter Beholders and whatnot as they appear in the Sola mod than Smarter Beholders as they appear by grabbing the BCS files yourself. Many people who are up to clicking on an EXE are not up to downloading the BCS files and putting them in the override folder. I know, mysterious.

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What would make more sense is something like an "Improved fights" mod, where each fight was an individual component.

You are right.

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We may as well make a single download with every mod as a component the way things are going.

That wouldn't actually be a bad idea if we wanted to burn a CD for use in a magazine demo.                    

Offline jcompton

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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2002, 05:52:54 PM »
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Why should I have to download Ascension to get a dialogue fix?

You don't have to, we just didn't know where else to put it.
                   I could, and still can, and still very well may make it a separate distro. But since I'm on the cusp of wrapping up code on Kelsey-TOB, and I didn't feel like bundling it up, putting it on 3DD, asking Wolfmoon to link it in somewhere on the FW site. Instead, I told Wes "Here, catch, put this in Ease of Use or something" and off it went.

I also sent it to Japh for his Baldurdash Remix, so it will be in what you would probably consider a more "appropriate forum."

The problem, as I see it, and as Wes alluded to, is that unless you bundle in a Setup-blah.exe WeiDU, something real simple like the Imoen fixer won't get much use, because most people can't or won't follow the command-line instructions to compile it into their game. My Korgan/Viconia fix confused people to no end, so we quietly threw it in Kelsey and Solaufein and there you go.

I could have written a .tp2 and zipped it up and maybe put an installer on it, but that would have taken more time. So I said "Well, Ease of Use .zip is barely larger than mine would be, and Wes will probably put out a new version if I send it out, and he's already got it", so there you go.

Of course, the packaging process would have taken about as much time as I just spent explaining this, but that's life.

(Note that one not-unreasonable application for some sort of simple WeiDU GUI would be an IEES-style "drop a random .d file here and I'll compile it in for you" tool, which might make it more popular and accessible to distribute little .d bugfixes.)                    
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

Offline jcompton

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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2002, 05:56:33 PM »
Oh, and as for why Wes puts so much stuff into Solaufein, that's easy enough to figure out: it's marketing. Solaufein is the hot product, so it's what exposes the other stuff.                    
Cespenar says, "Kelsey and friends be at the Pocket Plane? Ohhh yesssss!" http://www.pocketplane.net

japheth

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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2002, 08:58:05 PM »
Well Quitch, as jc said, I'm working on converting all the Baldurdash Fixes and Cheats into proper WeiDU format and then on top of that, packing them all up into an NSIS installer where the user can pick and choose which components they want to install.  

However, I didn't make it so the user could pick individual bugfixes, because well, that doesn't make much sense.

The uninstaller for the NSIS pack is also "intelligent."  Meaning, it will know which components the end user has installed and then will prompt them at uninstall to choose whether to uninstall all the installed components, or they can pick and choose which components to uninstall.

At the present moment I'm finished the TOB Cheats and Bug Fixes and I'm now moving on to the SOA cheats.  Expect it ready for some small beta testing in a week or so.                    

Offline weimer

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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2002, 09:27:20 PM »
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The uninstaller for the NSIS pack is also "intelligent." Meaning, it will know which components the end user has installed and then will prompt them at uninstall to choose whether to uninstall all the installed components, or they can pick and choose which components to uninstall.

Do you need extra WeiDU support for that?

I was thinking of adding switches like "--uninstall-component-number X" and "--install-component-number X", but I wasn't sure if anyone could use them.
                   

japheth

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Components
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2002, 08:54:39 AM »
Well at present time no.  Although it was a pain in the proverbial butt setting up the NSIS script.  I had to do a whole bunch of IfFileExists statements within the uninstall section because you can't use a menu in the Uninstaller section with NSIS.

I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to put it in there though.                    

 

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