Author Topic: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko  (Read 18066 times)

Offline Alarielle

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« on: May 14, 2004, 12:45:55 PM »
(* I split this into its own topic so that we can discuss it a bit better.  :) *)



I'm really excited about the Sarevok remorse thingie :)  I was really disappointed that TOB didn't really deal with his past issues much at all, so it'll make a very interesting addition
« Last Edit: May 16, 2004, 10:16:23 AM by Icelus »
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Offline icelus

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2004, 01:00:38 PM »
I'm really excited about the Sarevok remorse thingie :)  I was really disappointed that TOB didn't really deal with his past issues much at all, so it'll make a very interesting addition

Yeah, I'd almost forgotten about it, actually (which happens *all* the time).  Sovran is working on a Sarevok Relationship mod, so I may try to work in tandem with that project.
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Offline Bookwyrme

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2004, 03:03:07 PM »
Why would Sarevok express any remorse over Yoshimo?
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Offline icelus

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2004, 03:18:16 PM »
Yoshimo's sister is said to be Tamoko, with whom Sarevok had a relationship during BG1.  Yoshimo came to the Sword Coast to investigate the death of his sister (who, ironically, is killed by CHARNAME), where he ran into Irenicus.  He fell under the geas, and, subsequently dies as well.  Therefore, at least indirectly, Sarevok is responsible for both of their deaths.
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Offline jester

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2004, 04:41:58 PM »
I really think that that would be a stretch for Sarevok and a bit OOC. Loosing your love to some rival is bad enough, but having her butchered by an usurper and rival to godhood and after enduring several deaths and times in hell or wherever have to say you are sorry for this. I dunno.
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Offline Fedegar

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2004, 05:39:57 PM »
Wait wait. When was Tamoko killed by the HC? Ist that anywhere writen? I mean bevor the End of Bg 1 you have the option to Tlak with Tamoko and promised her that, if is it possiblibe that you not will kill Sarevok. And if you say this, see let you go to hunt Sarevok without an fight,

Offline mcruz

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2004, 10:47:14 PM »
Wait wait. When was Tamoko killed by the HC? Ist that anywhere writen? I mean bevor the End of Bg 1 you have the option to Tlak with Tamoko and promised her that, if is it possiblibe that you not will kill Sarevok. And if you say this, see let you go to hunt Sarevok without an fight,

That's true, in all the times I played BG I have never killed Tamoko so it would be kinda weird if that was the actual reason why Sarevok feels remorse for Yoshimo.......although Sarevok does make a lot of enemies at the end of BG so just about anyone else could have killed Tamoko to enact revenge on Sarevok (i.e the Iron Throne) or something along this lines....
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Offline icelus

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2004, 12:22:54 AM »
Wait wait. When was Tamoko killed by the HC? Ist that anywhere writen? I mean bevor the End of Bg 1 you have the option to Tlak with Tamoko and promised her that, if is it possiblibe that you not will kill Sarevok. And if you say this, see let you go to hunt Sarevok without an fight,

Is it any different than if you killed Edwin in BG1, only to have him reappear in BG2?  Xzar?  Garrick?  Coran?  I could go on and on.  :)
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Offline Kish

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2004, 01:08:34 AM »
I see a fairly significant difference in assuming the PC didn't kill someone, as opposed to assuming the PC did, yes.  I don't think assuming the PC killed Tamoko is necessary--Sarevok has as much to react to, if not more, if the PC didn't kill Tamoko and Yoshimo still died as a result of trying to avenge her supposed death at the PC's hands.  Moreover, this component seems slated for a PC who is prepared to forgive Sarevok and who actually wants him to feel regret for something, rather than to be a stone-cold killer--exactly the kind of person who is least likely to have killed Tamoko.

For my part, I can say that I wouldn't want to install a mod component that assumes I killed Tamoko in BG1.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2004, 01:12:31 AM by Kish »
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Offline jcompton

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2004, 02:29:20 AM »
If you want to implement this plot (and while I have to say that I've always liked it in concept, as it explains why Yoshimo might agree to something as foolhardy as a geas), you can work it as "Tamoko's Disappearance" rather than "death." Even if she's spared, she might have vanished, fleeing retribution or punishment or what have you.
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Offline jester

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2004, 04:34:24 AM »
Thanks guys for clearing things up. I had a gut feeling that I never killed her, but it has been so many years now, that I could not remember clearly. I killed the other funny bunch, apparently sent after Sarevok by the authorities. :)

Do you have to agree to a geas to work? I thought it is more like a contract with  a curse.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2004, 04:46:10 AM »
You could do the old "chose which action you did via a dialogue option" trick, i.e something like:

Sarevok: If I have one regret, it's for poor Tamoko.  Sometimes I think I almost loved her.  Almost.

1) What do you mean? I spared her back in the undercity, has she since been killed?

2) I'm sorry I had to slay her, Sarevok, but I had little choice in the matter.  It was either her or me.

3) Well *I* certainly don't regret murdering that bitch.  She deserved to die.
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Offline Lord Doomhammer

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2004, 08:34:41 AM »
Hmmm... tamako is defiantely dead. in Saravoks good epilouge it mentions him travelling to Kara-tur to bury her.
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Offline rreinier

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2004, 11:34:09 AM »
Do you have to agree to a geas to work? I thought it is more like a contract with  a curse.
I believe one has to agree, but I'm not sure if the victim needs to know what they're doing...

Offline Kish

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2004, 11:47:01 AM »
Hmmm... tamako is defiantely dead. in Saravoks good epilouge it mentions him travelling to Kara-tur to bury her.
Yes.  So, one way or another, she's dead by the time Sarevok reaches her.  There is all the difference in the world between that and, "The PC killed her, even if you didn't."
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Offline mcruz

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Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2004, 01:50:04 AM »
If anything Sarevok would feel remorse and regret for turning his back on her and how he treated her near the end of BG, especially since she was probably one of the few people who truly cared about him........if she died at the hands of the PC it would just feel sort of wrong....
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Offline icelus

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2004, 10:44:04 AM »
OK, I'm open to any rough ideas as to how this scene can be initiated.  What would trigger Sarevok's admission of remorse?  He doesn't know of Yoshimo, does he?  I suppose it could come up in a banter between Jaheira, Imoen, or Minsc and Sarevok...

Throne of Bhaal content is hazy for me, so any ideas would be appreciated.  :)
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Offline Barren

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2004, 11:57:42 AM »
Maybe Yoshimo or Tamoko could make an appearance in the first Pocket Plane challenge, at the beginning of TOB?
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Offline Winterine

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2004, 10:57:21 PM »
Hmm, why at the beginning of ToB?

Anyway, Sov and I have thought/are thinking about it, and we're organising something (aren't we, icelus ;) :D ) but at the moment, I have a dialogue in the Sarevok mod just after the 2nd challenge (where Tamoko and alternate-reality CHARNAME and flunkies attack CHARNAME) as well as a specfic Tamoko-talk, and another dialogue later on....

Sov and I are also both thinking it is a bit of a stretch for pre-redemption Sarevok to really feel remorse or anything for Yoshimo, so we're thinking any Yoshimo-related talk will be after he's changed alignment.

Thoughts?

Offline Barren

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2004, 12:04:07 AM »
Inversely... Realizing that he's responsible for their deaths might help him redeeming himself. Sarevok was CE, but he still loved Tamoko, after all.
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Offline Winterine

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2004, 10:35:02 PM »
*nodnod*  I'll keep that in mind and pass it on.  Thankies :)

Offline icelus

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2004, 07:47:22 PM »
As an update, Winterine has written up a dialog sequence to address this issue.  We're working on some of the details, but it should be released soon.  If not UB13, then definitely UB14.
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Offline Sovran

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2004, 04:02:21 PM »
Here’s an update: the actual Sarevok-PC dialogue about Tamoko and Yoshimo is now about as done as it will be without constructive criticism. If you want to read it beforehand (and hopefully give feedback! :)), it's here, in case someone doesn’t want to see the actual text until in the game.

To fit this in seamlessly, a few other things need to be added. What do you say to this plan:

When you bring Yoshimo’s heart to Ilmater’s shrine, you find that Yoshimo has left some personal effects there, for safekeeping, or for fear of the consequences, should they be found on him. Among other things, you’ll find his journal (unless that’s too corny), where Yoshimo would mention his connection to Tamoko, his quest to find her, and his agreement to undergo a geas for Irenicus, in order to find out what happened to Tamoko -- and to get revenge?
 
--> I’m a bit unclear on what’s the general stand (if there’s any such thing) on this: was it really Yoshimo’s goal to avenge Tamoko on Charname? Or was he just out to find out what had happened to her, before Irenicus and the geas messed things up?

We might end up adding a bit of dialogue for Yoshimo as well? He might ask, somehow indirectly – make that *very* indirectly -- about Tamoko’s death. If indeed Charname gets his journal in the end, the entries could be affected by Charname’s responses. Whether or not s/he killed Tamoko, and whether or not Yoshimo feels regret at his choices, whether or not he still wants vengeance; if he’s having second thoughts, either because he likes Charname and company, or because he knows confronting Charname will be the death of him, as will failing to kill him/her, or trying to fight the Geas. Etc.

@a quest in their honour: I’ve been racking my brain, but I haven’t been able to think of any kind of proper quest, really, that would make sense in the framework of ToB. Arrange for Tamoko’s burial, as is mentioned in Sarevok’s epilogue? You’d have to go back to Baldur’s Gate, and that’s out. (Gaider’s comment might refer to a phase of development when ToB wasn’t as linear, and as tied to a few select locales, as it became in the end, mightn’t it?) If anyone comes up with an idea, I’m all ears.

On the other hand, she came to this part of the world because of Sarevok, apparently. I suppose you could say that Sarevok’s redemption is something of a quest in her honour. (You may slap me with the lame trout anytime now.)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 01:50:04 PM by Sovran »

Offline Winterine

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2004, 05:38:02 PM »
*offers trouts...and holds up a sign reading, "Don't forget to slap her partner-in-crime, too"*

But seriously, we were a little nervous about putting stuff here for perusal...which is partially why it took a while.  Like Sov said though, constructive criticism would be appreciated :)

Offline Andyr

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Re: Sarevok's Remorse of Yoshimo and Tamoko
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2004, 09:46:19 AM »
Looks fine to me. :) Anyone else got any comments?

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