Author Topic: Having sex before wedding  (Read 21482 times)

Offline Jerry

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Having sex before wedding
« on: April 29, 2004, 08:23:31 AM »
 It goes without saying about that in Viconia romance. About Aerie romance, She and PC will "do" it in TOB. Will this kind of thing disobey virtue? I had heard that having sex before wedding is a crime for paladins.

 Another question, will virtue decrease because of letting Viconia join the party?

 Have moderator think about that if we combine Virtue and Imoen Romance we will lose virtue for romancing Imoen? (I hope not.)

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2004, 10:04:11 AM »
It goes without saying about that in Viconia romance. About Aerie romance, She and PC will "do" it in TOB. Will this kind of thing disobey virtue? I had heard that having sex before wedding is a crime for paladins.
Whether or not it's against the code to which paladins adhere, I don't perceive sex before marriage as evil. However, this raises an interesting question: evil or not, if there are rules against it, they should presumably fall, no?

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Another question, will virtue decrease because of letting Viconia join the party?
No.

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Have moderator think about that if we combine Virtue and Imoen Romance we will lose virtue for romancing Imoen? (I hope not.)
No. I don't see consensual incest as being an evil act, either. On the other hand, there are options to rape Imoen in the mod, which presumably would be evil. I don't handle them specifically in Virtue at the moment, however.

Offline Kish

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2004, 11:37:22 AM »
Whether or not it's against the code to which paladins adhere, I don't perceive sex before marriage as evil. However, this raises an interesting question: evil or not, if there are rules against it, they should presumably fall, no?
If.

I don't know if there are any Realms deities who forbid sex outside of marriage--we're not talking Christianity here.  I do know that there are Realms deities who accept paladins and don't frown on sex outside of marriage at all...so if you start imposing Falling for a paladin who romances Aerie or Viconia, you're likely to hear, "But my paladin worships Sune!  What is this?  You suck, Ding0!" and justifiably, too.



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No. I don't see consensual incest as being an evil act, either. On the other hand, there are options to rape Imoen in the mod, which presumably would be evil.
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2004, 12:03:31 PM »
I don't know if there are any Realms deities who forbid sex outside of marriage--we're not talking Christianity here.  I do know that there are Realms deities who accept paladins and don't frown on sex outside of marriage at all...so if you start imposing Falling for a paladin who romances Aerie or Viconia, you're likely to hear, "But my paladin worships Sune!  What is this?  You suck, Ding0!" and justifiably, too.
Right, fair enough.

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Don't they get you killed?
I don't know. I couldn't bring myself to play that far, for some unimaginable reason...

Offline jester

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2004, 02:22:31 PM »
Sim, thank you so much for the responses (especially) in the first post. :) Nightmare would know about the rule, but I think they should live in celibacy althogether. :P

@ Viconia: I don't know if that is from a western movie or a kung-fu flic, but once you saved somebody's life you are responsible for them. :) (Lesson: Too much Tarantino obviously hurts your referencing. :( )
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Offline Zandilar

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2004, 07:12:17 AM »
Sim, thank you so much for the responses (especially) in the first post. :) Nightmare would know about the rule, but I think they should live in celibacy althogether. :P

@ Viconia: I don't know if that is from a western movie or a kung-fu flic, but once you saved somebody's life you are responsible for them. :) (Lesson: Too much Tarantino obviously hurts your referencing. :( )

*sigh* I seem to keep saying this.

The Realms are not Earth. Do NOT make the mistake of assuming that the Realms share the same social mores as Earth, when it's clear just by the deity list that the Realms would have developed along totally different lines.

Some of you might be rather familiar with these links by now...

Ed Greenwood on homosexuality and sexuality in the Realms in General. (scroll down a little, it's the section of the post addressing me specifically.)
Ed Greenwood on Marriage and Church Sanctioned One Night Stands. (It's the second one down, a post by The Hooded One.)

Offline jester

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2004, 11:26:17 AM »
What's your point in quoting me above ?? None of what is said in these links is disputed in my post.  :o

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*sigh* I seem to keep saying this.
...until you learn to read my posts right. :P The links might be useful here regardless.
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2004, 07:16:48 AM »
It may have been in relation to the use of the word "celibacy" without basis. ;)

Kish said it more literally: "I don't know if there are any Realms deities who forbid sex outside of marriage--we're not talking Christianity here."
Stupid is as stupid does.

Offline Jerry

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2004, 10:00:22 AM »
 I don't believe in Christ. It just hard to be accepted in my character point. By the way, had Christ said you should not have sex before wedding?

Offline icelus

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2004, 11:41:26 AM »
I don't believe in Christ. It just hard to be accepted in my character point. By the way, had Christ said you should not have sex before wedding?
What Christ may or may not have said is irrelevant.  This thread and forum is about Virtue in Baldur's Gate.  DO NOT turn this into a religious debate.
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2004, 11:53:24 AM »
What Christ may or may not have said is irrelevant. This thread and forum is about Virtue in Baldur's Gate. DO NOT turn this into a religious debate.

 Alright! Just think about what Keldorn and Anomen had said when Aerie borning her baby.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2004, 11:55:02 AM »
I'm fairly sure the Bible states that sex before marriage is a sin. On the other hand, I don't really care. It's probably arguable that what is defined as evil in the real world should also be ingame, but I don't buy the notion that something is evil just because the Bible says so.

I'm willing to tolerate religious debates on the forum if they're relevant to the mod, but as soon as everyone gets offended, it stops.

Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2004, 01:33:20 AM »
Alright! Just think about what Keldorn and Anomen had said when Aerie borning her baby.
that the child would be a bastard, being born to Aerie out of wedlock; says nothing to/about the act of sex, itself.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Offline Alarielle

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2004, 02:02:25 AM »
well, you'd think that if a child born out of wedlock is seen as a bad thing then the process that produced said child would also be considered to be bad.
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Offline mcruz

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2004, 02:07:41 AM »
It's difficult to say as there is too many gods and different customs in terms of race, culture and religion in Faerun, so we can't really assume that sex before marriage is taboo. There's probably some gods that might be sensitive to this issue (presumably good-aliigned deities or gods who are big on celibacy or unions), but like Kish mentioned if you worship Sune for instance then it's not an issue at all. I guess one way that might affect virtue would be your intent (having sex as an act of love vs having sex as an act of lust), but then this just complicates things :-\
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Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2004, 02:33:19 AM »
Alright! Just think about what Keldorn and Anomen had said when Aerie borning her baby.
that the child would be a bastard, being born to Aerie out of wedlock; says nothing to/about the act of sex, itself.

Actually I think the PC and Aerie perform a commoner's marriage ritual for the Avariel.  I know there is a love talk where the two of you exchange vows and I'm pretty sure that Aerie says that is the common form of the marriage ritual other than the huge elaborate weddings.  If that is the case, then it becomes more a debate about the validity of other group's customs.  If Keldorn and Anomen make comments about a child out of wedlock, then they either do not know about the exchange of vows, or they don't consider them to be marriage and are projecting their own set of beliefs onto others; something that isn't completely out of character for either NPC.
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2004, 10:40:29 AM »
I guess one way that might affect virtue would be your intent (having sex as an act of love vs having sex as an act of lust), but then this just complicates things :-\
Why would either of those be considered evil?

Offline Alarielle

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2004, 01:14:11 PM »
well, it depends what the other person's intent is.  If they think it's loving sex when it's just lustful, that would be bad.  If you're both in love then I don't see anything wrong with it.
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Offline Kish

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2004, 01:16:12 PM »
And what if they're both interested in sex, and neither thinks love is involved?
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Offline icelus

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2004, 01:31:36 PM »
And what if they're both interested in sex, and neither thinks love is involved?
Horniness != evil.  Else, we will all be struck by lightning.
You could possibly make the case that sex without love is a form of instinct--a basic, primitive need.
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Offline Alarielle

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2004, 02:28:30 PM »
we are designed for reproduction, so I don't think if two people just want to have sex it's a sin.  It's only when one is deceived in some way that it becomes a bad thing.  However, sex is always better when you care about the other person, so I don't see the point in doing it for the sake of doing it.  (sorry, I'm a hopeless romantic!)
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Offline jester

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2004, 02:44:42 PM »
And what if they're both interested in sex, and neither thinks love is involved?
Horniness != evil.  Else, we will all be struck by lightning.
You could possibly make the case that sex without love is a form of instinct--a basic, primitive need.

You are kidding, ice, right? Moshe Feldenkrais, who invented the technique of the same name, said that, if the process of walking had as many moral limitations to obey as the process of sex, we would not be able to take a single step. (He was referring to the complex use of different muscle groups for walking, I can only offer the German quote verbatim). Sex like religion is private territory, off limits to the Twisted Rune, the moral majority or everybody else who feels like imposing moral standards on his fellow citizen.

I understand that FR is not about Christianity, Jesus or religion in real life, but I cannot help to feel that Jesus would have other things that would bother him much more in our christian societies than kids born out of wedlock.
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Offline icelus

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2004, 02:59:55 PM »
I'm not sure where you're heading with this, jester, but I agree with you.  Perhaps I should have said "horniness does not equal evil" instead of obscure symbols.  ;)
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Offline jester

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2004, 03:05:37 PM »
Sorry, I knew what you meant. I just wanted to say that sex=ok.  ::) ;) ;D :-*
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Offline neriana

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2004, 03:19:51 PM »
"This whole Christian theology thing is that God came down to experience life through His son. Well, how's He experiencing life if He doesn't get laid? Give me a break. And why would He not get laid, as He created the apparatus in the first place?"
-- Tori Amos

I happen to concur.

There is nothing, NOTHING, wrong with sex. There is also nothing wrong with sex without traditional romantic love. Sex without respect is highly icky. Anyway, I don't think Virtue should touch this.
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