Author Topic: Having sex before wedding  (Read 19988 times)

Offline Ruben

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2004, 04:15:55 PM »
Umm no where in Christianity that says Sex is evil. And their is a heck of alot more to experience life than just getting laid. Jesus didn't came down to earth to "experience" the thrills in life, he came down to suffer. To bleed and die on a cross, for my sins and the sins of the world.

EDIT: Suffering does Not necissaruly equal masocism. He didn't come down to enjoy the pain either. ie. In the Garden before Jesus was crucified he prayed. "Father take this cup from me.... but not my will your be done" (Not an exact quote, but basically hes saying, if their could another way, let me not have to do this)

Marriage is their to protect both parties, and protect the helpless life that can be created because of sex. The experience of sex, is increased when two people come together with full trust in each other and a desire to please each other, as is the design of marriage.


Now that it has been said. This is a gameThe last time I checked their was no Christianity as a choosable religons. In non of the Patheons is their a god with the name of GOD or Jesus. So basically its up to whatever the moral view in the actual world that has been created. To me seeing as their is no "Christianity" persay, then if both parties carried about each other, and your not rushing somone (like sleeping with Arie to early) then I do not believe theirs a problem.

Its a matter of respect in the person who gets to do the choosing.
Weather Virture should touch this or not, is really up to the discresion of its author. It would see acts of Rape as evil. Personally I think this shouldn't be touched as everyone comes at this with their own moral values, and as I said. This is a game, not real life.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 04:33:03 PM by Ruben »

Offline Kish

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2004, 04:19:42 PM »
Jesus didn't came down to earth to "experience" the thrills in life, he came down to suffer.
Kinky.
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Offline Ruben

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2004, 04:27:03 PM »
Jesus didn't came down to earth to "experience" the thrills in life, he came down to suffer.
Kinky.

Well  :) View my statments like you wish, I've finish my religous rant for now and have said my peice.

Offline Alarielle

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2004, 04:28:20 PM »
Jesus didn't came down to earth to "experience" the thrills in life, he came down to suffer.
Kinky.

I just had a very scary mental picture.  Jesus, disciples, water to wine and a whip...
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Offline mcruz

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2004, 05:13:31 PM »
I guess one way that might affect virtue would be your intent (having sex as an act of love vs having sex as an act of lust), but then this just complicates things :-\
Why would either of those be considered evil?

I don't think that sex in itself is evil nor a crime, I only wanted to point out that the motive behind your actions does play a significant role in terms of whether it becomes a less virtuos act. For example, planning to kill someone and suceeding is usually considered much more evil when compared to killing someone is self-defense, and the same notions apply to having sex in general. Thus forcing your intentions on someone else just for your own gain would not be the same as both people being in love and having sex (and of course there is a lot of other scenarios in between).

However, adding this whole issue to Virtue would in my opinion be fairly difficult as there is no clearcut way to approach this.
Jesus didn't came down to earth to "experience" the thrills in life, he came down to suffer.
Kinky.

I just had a very scary mental picture. Jesus, disciples, water to wine and a whip...

not the kind of mental picture I wanted just before lunch..... :)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 05:15:29 PM by mcruz »
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Offline neriana

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2004, 05:23:45 PM »
"Forcing your attentions on someone else" is called rape. That is evil. Consensual sex is not. They're in entirely different categories. Deciding that one kind of consensual sex is more or less virtuous than another is something that religions oh-so-love to do, and it doesn't belong in the game.

There is more to life than sex, but I'm sorry, it's a HUGE part of human experience. Like it or not, I find the idea of another being deciding to experience life as a human and avoiding sex ludicrous. About as ludicrous as I find the whole "sex before marriage is wrong" idea. But, well, I find a whole lot about Christian theology pretty darn silly, so I'll stop before I really start to offend someone.
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Offline Echon

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2004, 05:29:54 PM »
You could possibly make the case that sex without love is a form of instinct--a basic, primitive need.

Similar to the need to eat, sleep, etc - all activities that should be condemned.

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Offline Ruben

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2004, 05:40:11 PM »
Its a part, but its only a part. I've seen marriages break up cause they guy complain that they need sex.  I've seen men and women go on and on about how they have to have sex. Their is no need. Its not like food, were if you don't get it you will die.

Yes it is an important part of life, but go ask any older couple who have been happily married for 30-40 years. And most of them will probally tell you, that its the company of the other person that has made life and their marriage enjoy able, not the actual physical act of sex.

Anyway, you won't ever really offend me. I'm just a debating type person. But eitherway I will shutup now so I do not incure the wrath of the moderators as this thread has kinda got off topic.

Offline mcruz

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2004, 06:06:27 PM »
"Forcing your attentions on someone else" is called rape. That is evil. Consensual sex is not. They're in entirely different categories. Deciding that one kind of consensual sex is more or less virtuous than another is something that religions oh-so-love to do, and it doesn't belong in the game.

There is more to life than sex, but I'm sorry, it's a HUGE part of human experience. Like it or not, I find the idea of another being deciding to experience life as a human and avoiding sex ludicrous. About as ludicrous as I find the whole "sex before marriage is wrong" idea. But, well, I find a whole lot about Christian theology pretty darn silly, so I'll stop before I really start to offend someone.

I think you're taking what I wrote too literally......I only want to say that when it comes to sex there is no black and white just like in life, and I think the whole issue really should not be centered so much around religion but about human nature and what we generally consider "evil" in terms of ethics.  The fact that there might be a rule is besides the point, people are still responsible for their own actions and must face the consequences should any arise (the idea of "sex before marriage is wrong" I also find ludicrous but it has nothing to do with what I'm trying to say).  Is sex important in life? Of course and I don't think anyone in here is trying to deny that.... :)
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Offline Andyr

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2004, 07:59:40 PM »
Umm no where in Christianity that says Sex is evil.

I think most denominations consider sex out of wedlock to be a sin. I'm not entirely sure, could look it up if you like.

But I don't think Virtue should touch this. :)
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Offline discharger12

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2004, 08:20:47 PM »
I think almost all sex is okay, except rape. Rape=bad, bad=sin.

And I agree with Alarielle, sex is always better if you love the person your doing it with.


Offline Quitch

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2004, 06:33:25 PM »
Sorry, I knew what you meant. I just wanted to say that sex=ok.  ::) ;) ;D :-*

OK?  I don't think you're doing it right.
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2004, 06:55:55 PM »
Marriage is their to protect both parties, and protect the helpless life that can be created because of sex.
Bear in mind that not only do the Realms supposedly have 100% effective contraception (I think), but also that marriage is only a ceremony; a loving couple can quite happily protect the life of a child without the paperwork.

Quote
Thus forcing your intentions on someone else just for your own gain would not be the same as both people being in love and having sex (and of course there is a lot of other scenarios in between).
Lust doesn't necessarily imply that one party is non-consenting. If two people want sex but don't love each other, I don't see a problem.

Quote
Its a part, but its only a part. I've seen marriages break up cause they guy complain that they need sex.  I've seen men and women go on and on about how they have to have sex. Their is no need. Its not like food, were if you don't get it you will die.
If anything, reproduction is actually a greater drive in living creatures than self-preservation. But yes, considering sex is a status symbol and act of pleasure, I agree with what you're saying.

Quote
Anyway, you won't ever really offend me. I'm just a debating type person. But eitherway I will shutup now so I do not incure the wrath of the moderators as this thread has kinda got off topic.
No moderator wrath here, since I'm usually having as much fun as everyone else. On the other hand, this doesn't seem to be going very far at the moment, since everyone's arguing on the same side... :)

Quote
But I don't think Virtue should touch this.
I don't think it's going to, no.

...on the other hand, is sleeping with Phaere when you're romancing someone else evil?

Offline icelus

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2004, 06:58:58 PM »
...on the other hand, is sleeping with Phaere when you're romancing someone else evil?

No, because she is HAWT and you cannot begrudge that from anyone.  Scientific fact, actually.
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2004, 07:09:04 PM »
...on the other hand, is sleeping with Phaere when you're romancing someone else evil?

No, because she is HAWT and you cannot begrudge that from anyone. Scientific fact, actually.
In a f*ck me or die kind'a way  ::)
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Offline icelus

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2004, 07:28:04 PM »
Yes.  S&M negates any virtue drop.
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2004, 07:31:34 PM »
Heh-heh-heh..  :-X

Virtue shouldn't touch sex, lest we next be looking for stained knickers.  8)
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Offline Quitch

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2004, 08:30:41 PM »

...on the other hand, is sleeping with Phaere when you're romancing someone else evil?

Considering the path all the romances lead down, one of platitudes and trust, I would say that would have to be less than virtuous to do this.  Not sure I can see it as "evil" as such, though.  I don't see this as an "evil" act however, and certainly it doesn't fit in with other virtue chances.  I think the romances already handle this situation just fine.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2004, 11:48:36 PM »
Then again, would a paladin fall for betraying such a trust?  I think so, so it ought to at least incur a virtue drop of 1.
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2004, 12:48:19 AM »
paladins.. I hate paladins so I will voice no opinion.  ;)
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Offline jester

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2004, 08:31:14 AM »
paladins.. I hate paladins so I will voice no opinion.  ;)
:D
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Offline discharger12

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2004, 09:40:48 AM »
Then again, would a paladin fall for betraying such a trust? I think so, so it ought to at least incur a virtue drop of 1.

I agree, but I would think that paladin's wouldn't even have the option to do it with Phaere.

Offline rreinier

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2004, 12:06:32 PM »
Why not? It's not actually impossible for a Paladin to have sex with a Drow. Along the same lines, I think that good persons should also get all the "evil-only" options, just to give them the option of proving that they're good...

I do agree, though, that a 1 point Virtue drop would be in order here...

Offline jester

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2004, 01:43:26 PM »
I think the only thing that drops should be the pants. :P A night of lust and forgetfullness. How wonderful. Is the actual drop the sex part itself or the fact that you lie to your GF afterwards?
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Offline Alarielle

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Re: Having sex before wedding
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2004, 01:50:27 PM »
The lying definately.  I don't think there should be a virtue drop for that though.  It doesn't make you evil, it just makes you a git
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