Author Topic: Shield Spell in TuTu  (Read 7776 times)

Offline Rathwellin the Bard

  • Owl Sage
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 90
  • Gender: Male
Shield Spell in TuTu
« on: April 23, 2004, 07:25:09 PM »
I'm playing a Sorcerer in a TuTu game right now.  Ran into something interesting at the Friendly Arm Inn.  One of the *two* spells my Sorcerer knows is Shield.  I was reasonably certain that this spell protected one completely against magic missiles.  However when I used it before facing the assassin waiting outside the Inn it didn't seem to stop his MM attack at all.

Looking at the spell description in my TuTu game it says nothing about MM.  However in a BGII game it does.

What gives?
Faith is a candle to reason's sun.
No one needs a candle until the darkness falls....

Offline SimDing0™

  • Back In Black
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3496
  • Gender: Male
  • Word Enhancer
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2004, 07:40:38 PM »
In BG1, Shield never protected against Magic Missile. I think this was due to engine limitations, and I don't remember if the spell description indicated that it should. I can implement it in Tutu if it's justifiable, though.

Offline Rathwellin the Bard

  • Owl Sage
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 90
  • Gender: Male
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2004, 09:41:43 PM »
I'm pretty sure that the P&P version did.  It's always hard to tell with TuTu whether it's being faithful to BGI or delivering on 'Playing BGI in the BGII engine.'

It might make a nice optional component.
Faith is a candle to reason's sun.
No one needs a candle until the darkness falls....

Offline Caedwyr

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2004, 02:31:10 PM »
Its pretty easy to make Shield grant immunity to magic missles.  You just need to add the opcode Protection from Spell [can't remember right now], and then use the resource of the magic missle spell.  Since there are commonly several versions of the spell, it is important to make sure you have gotten all the relevant ones.  For example, from memory, in BG II magic missle includes SPWI112, SPWI003, BALTH06, and one other.  To grant immunity, you just add these resources to the protection from spell.  Shadowkeeper's spell browser, or near infinity are good ways to look for references to Magic Missle, or any other spell to see if you have gotten them all.
"Knowledge is Power.  Power Corrupts.  Study Hard.  Be Evil."  - Mikka

PnP Celestials
Geomantic Sorcerer Kit

Offline SimDing0™

  • Back In Black
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3496
  • Gender: Male
  • Word Enhancer
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2004, 03:06:43 PM »
Yeh, I know (incidentally, that's not possible in the BG1 engine). I'm asking if it's justifiable to do so in a faithful port.

Offline Caedwyr

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2004, 03:45:44 PM »
Ah, yes.  I should really read more than the thread above before posting.  :-[
"Knowledge is Power.  Power Corrupts.  Study Hard.  Be Evil."  - Mikka

PnP Celestials
Geomantic Sorcerer Kit

Offline Galactygon

  • Modding since 2002
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 378
  • Gender: Male
  • Creator of spells
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2004, 05:03:50 PM »
I believe I once did it with Vanilla BG1; by using the "protection from projectile" opcode and referencing the IDS value of the MM projectile.

I might upload a fix like this soon to TeamBG.

-Galactygon

Offline Cybersquirt

  • Socialist Evil-Doer
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
  • Gender: Female
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2004, 11:23:18 PM »
In BG1, Shield never protected against Magic Missile. I think this was due to engine limitations, and I don't remember if the spell description indicated that it should. I can implement it in Tutu if it's justifiable, though.
The spell description mentions nothing of magic missles, or enchanted missles for that matter, just that your armor gets a bonus of 2 against missle weapons.. which, to me, indicates non-magical.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Gherald

  • Guest
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2004, 02:08:17 AM »
I believe it is justifiable; every other AD&D game I've played has a shield spell that protects against magic missile.

Offline Kish

  • HEROISM OK
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 790
    • Oversight mod.
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2004, 02:37:39 AM »
I don't think making changes to the spells is justifiable; Shield should function just as it did in BG1.  The conversion is meant to be an engine port, not a rebalance.
Beauty standing amidst fiery destruction.

Offline Cybersquirt

  • Socialist Evil-Doer
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
  • Gender: Female
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2004, 02:41:14 AM »
From the 2E Players Handbook - "this shield totally negates magic missle attacks."  I think it would be a bit unbalancing, but it's your call Sim.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Offline SimDing0™

  • Back In Black
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3496
  • Gender: Male
  • Word Enhancer
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2004, 03:41:53 AM »
I'm not making changes based on PnP rules. Echon can deal with that stuff. I just had a sneaking suspicion it mentioned Magic Missile in the BG1 spell description. I'm not sure why I didn't check instead of asking everyone, but meh.

Offline Rathwellin the Bard

  • Owl Sage
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 90
  • Gender: Male
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2004, 07:49:56 AM »
The BGII description *does* mention it.

I figured with TuTu that I would be using the BGII version of spells not the BGI version.
Faith is a candle to reason's sun.
No one needs a candle until the darkness falls....

Offline Caedwyr

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2004, 12:25:26 PM »
To expand on that question, which version of charm and confusion type spells are used?  The BGI or BGII versions?
"Knowledge is Power.  Power Corrupts.  Study Hard.  Be Evil."  - Mikka

PnP Celestials
Geomantic Sorcerer Kit

Offline SimDing0™

  • Back In Black
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3496
  • Gender: Male
  • Word Enhancer
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2004, 01:35:13 PM »
The spells are not converted, which means everything you get is the BG2 version.

Offline Caedwyr

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2004, 02:01:43 PM »
So, following that logic, it would make sense to use a fixed version of the BGII shield...
"Knowledge is Power.  Power Corrupts.  Study Hard.  Be Evil."  - Mikka

PnP Celestials
Geomantic Sorcerer Kit

Offline SimDing0™

  • Back In Black
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3496
  • Gender: Male
  • Word Enhancer
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2004, 02:03:35 PM »
Yeh. Um, you can probably install Baldurdash on your BG2 install before Tutu, which might be a better idea than me duplicating all the fixes.

Offline Rathwellin the Bard

  • Owl Sage
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 90
  • Gender: Male
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2004, 03:51:47 PM »
Actually I *did* install Baldurdash first.

:)
Faith is a candle to reason's sun.
No one needs a candle until the darkness falls....

Offline Kish

  • HEROISM OK
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 790
    • Oversight mod.
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2004, 11:24:01 PM »
Yes, if all the spells are the BG2 spells, it should have the BG2 Shield.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2004, 11:33:33 PM by Kish »
Beauty standing amidst fiery destruction.

Offline SimDing0™

  • Back In Black
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3496
  • Gender: Male
  • Word Enhancer
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2004, 12:31:25 PM »
This problem runs far deeper than I realised. Japh's converted all of the BG1 spells he can. This means not only do you get BG1 shield, but also that some stuff doesn't work properly. I'm going to change ALL the pickable spells back to their BG2 versions for the next release, but I'll probably also make Dimension Door selectable. Any objections?

Offline Rathwellin the Bard

  • Owl Sage
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 90
  • Gender: Male
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2004, 01:23:39 PM »
Not from me.  DD shouldn't be nearly able to break nearly as much stuff in BG as it can in SoA.

However if a TuTu character is carried over into SoA then it might be an issue....
Faith is a candle to reason's sun.
No one needs a candle until the darkness falls....

Offline SimDing0™

  • Back In Black
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3496
  • Gender: Male
  • Word Enhancer
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2004, 02:00:23 PM »
Do you normally lose Dimension Door when you carry a BG1 mage over to SoA?

Offline Rathwellin the Bard

  • Owl Sage
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 90
  • Gender: Male
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2004, 02:09:00 PM »
My memory is that mages & bards loose *all* their BGI spells when imported ... though they do get to pick some new ones as though they were a new PC.

I haven't imported from a TuTu game yet.
Faith is a candle to reason's sun.
No one needs a candle until the darkness falls....

Offline Caswallon

  • Telvanni Archmagister
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 324
  • Gender: Male
    • BG Forum
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2004, 03:24:11 PM »
Rathwellin's right - you have to pick your spells again, and DD isn't available.
And just for the record - DD scrolls in your inventory turn into scrolls of Stoneskin when importing (same item code, iirc).

Don't know about importing Tutu characters, though.
Man's Mystery
Man is mortal, and doomed to death and failure and loss.
This lies beyond our comprehension - why do you not despair?
--Spirit of the Daedra--

Offline SimDing0™

  • Back In Black
  • Global Moderator
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 3496
  • Gender: Male
  • Word Enhancer
Re: Shield Spell in TuTu
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2004, 08:04:26 AM »
Scrolls aren't gonna be a problem since Tutu items are destroyed on import to BG2 without exception. I suspect you probably will be able to keep Dimension Door in your spellbook, however. There's not much I can do about this, because even if it were technically possible to remove it, it wouldn't be appropriate to remove one of a sorcerer's spells, for example.

Proposed solution: Play nice if you pick Dimension Door. :)

 

With Quick-Reply you can write a post when viewing a topic without loading a new page. You can still use bulletin board code and smileys as you would in a normal post.

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Name: Email:
Verification:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image
Type the letters shown in the picture:
What color is grass?:
What is the seventh word in this sentence?:
What is five minus two (use the full word)?: