Author Topic: Suna Seni component - discussion about design  (Read 500 times)

Offline jastey

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Suna Seni component - discussion about design
« on: March 25, 2018, 12:02:31 PM »
The Suna Seni / Valygar component uses surprisingly little of the existent lines, in contradiction to the UB philosophy of using as much as possible. I do understand that the "Geas" scenario was supposed to be what the developpers wanted to integrate in their first ideas, although I couldn't find any info on that other than Barren stating it here. Yet, seeing that there are hidden traces for a planned Valygar-PC romance, too, I would think that making the Suna Seni encounter a current love story for Valygar and calling it UB is kind of contradictory to the Valygar Romance UB traces?
It seems Bibbi thought so, too, stating that "as is in the UB version, valygar and suna sound like they're still lovers, which isn't really the case." (Link)
Bibbi also wanted to tweak the UB component to make it use as much of the existent Valygar / Suna Seni lines as possible - it never seemed to have happened, though. (Link).

Is there any chance this undertaking could be realized as of now?

I am asking out of four motives:

1. The current component is incompatible with a potential Valygar - PC romance.
2. The current component uses melodramatic phrasings that are out-of-character for Valygar
3. The UB material regarding Valygar and Suna Seni plus UB traces for a Valygar romance leads to the conclusion that Suna Seni was, if at all, a past love.
4. The component uses almost no existent material from what is in the game. All we have is Barren's post about the UB team "restoring" what the developpers changed it to. (?)

The first two are highly personal and might not be relevant to other players.
The last two are quite relevant from UB's perspective, I think.

I might add here that I am currently working on reviving Domi's Corthala Romantique mod. I would be thrilled if the Suna Seni/Valygar component could be made compatible with a Valygar romance mod by removing the "this is an active love relationship" phrases from it - at least.

In the end, I could make it work if the following three lines were changed:
(ubdialog.tra):

Quote
@170  = ~Suna Seni!  Oh, how I have longed to see your beautiful face once again!  I have missed you so much since I fled the city.  I am sorry I had to leave you so suddenly and without explanation.  It pained my soul to know that I might have hurt you.~
This line is very melodramatic and thus so Un-Valygar-like. I am unsure to what it should be changed, though.
Quote
@172  = ~Yes, my love, I am fine.  <CHARNAME> paid me a visit in my cabin and has offered to aid me in my quest to stop Lavok.~
Easy: change it to "Yes, Suna, I am fine.  <CHARNAME> paid me a visit in my cabin and has offered to aid me in my quest to stop Lavok."
Quote
@188  = ~I'm so sorry for leaving you, my love.  If I had only known, I would have hunted down the wizard myself.  It seems my family's curse runs deeper than I'd feared.~
Easiest change would again be to remove the "my love" part, although his remark about his family curse still seems to be out of place.

Suna's lines could stay, I am not interested in her feelings, might very well be she still loves him.

Thoughts?

These are the original lines still in the game:
Suna (RESUNA.dlg)
Code: [Select]
// creator  : weidu (version 24300)
// argument : RESUNA.DLG
// game     : .
// source   : ./DATA/DIALOG.BIF
// dialog   : .\dialog.tlk
// dialogF  : (none)

BEGIN ~RESUNA~

IF ~Global("RandomEncounters","GLOBAL",2)
~ THEN BEGIN 0 // from:
  SAY #51197 /* ~Hold! You will go no further! You have wandered free long enough!~ */
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY #51316 /* ~Who are you and why should I submit to you?~ */ DO ~SetGlobal("MetSuna","GLOBAL",1)~ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY #51319 /* ~Ruffians! Never shall I surrender!~ */ DO ~SetGlobal("MetSuna","GLOBAL",1)~ GOTO 2
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY #51320 /* ~I do not wish to fight. I will surrender and we can talk about this.~ */ DO ~SetGlobal("MetSuna","GLOBAL",1)~ GOTO 11
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 1 // from:
  SAY #51321 /* ~A wise decision, <CHARNAME>. Clea! Take <PRO_HIMHER> if you would..~ */
  IF ~~ THEN EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 2 // from: 3.0 0.1
  SAY #51329 /* ~You force my hand, <CHARNAME>! I have no answers other than this! Attack!~ */
  IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobalTimer("Encounter2End","GLOBAL",90)
ActionOverride("reeldar",Enemy())
ActionOverride("refigh01",Enemy())
ActionOverride("remage01",Enemy())
ActionOverride("recler01",Enemy())
ActionOverride("rethie01",Enemy())
Enemy()
~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 3 // from: 0.0
  SAY #51344 /* ~You are a wanted <PRO_MANWOMAN>, <CHARNAME>. I am merely a woman who seeks bounties. Again I say that you have wandered freely long enough!~ */
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY #51346 /* ~I shall not surrender to a bounty hunter! What's this all about?~ */ GOTO 2
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY #51347 /* ~I do not wish to fight. Tell me what this is about and I might surrender.~ */ GOTO 11
END

IF ~Global("RandomEncounters","GLOBAL",4)
!IsValidForPartyDialog("Valygar")~ THEN BEGIN 4 // from:
  SAY #51457 /* ~I allowed you to escape the first time, but I shall not make the same mistake twice. Attack!~ */
  IF ~~ THEN GOTO 5
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 5 // from: 4.0
  SAY #51477 /* ~Take <CHARNAME>, my companions and kill all others. They are nothing. <CHARNAME> must be taken alive! To it!~ */
  IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobalTimer("Encounter4End","GLOBAL",90)
Enemy()
~ EXIT
END

IF ~Global("RandomEncounters","GLOBAL",4)
IsValidForPartyDialog("Valygar")~ THEN BEGIN 6 // from:
  SAY #52274 /* ~I allowed you to escape the first time, but I shall not... not... Valygar?~ */
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~VALYGARJ~ 70
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 7 // from:
  SAY #52276 /* ~I am hunting the Bhaal-spawn, Valygar.  You... you should not be with <PRO_HIMHER>.  Go, leave, before I am forced to deal with you the same as the rest of <PRO_HISHER> companions!~ */
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~VALYGARJ~ 71
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 8 // from:
  SAY #52278 /* ~I... have little choice.  Please, Valygar... if our past means anything to you, leave now.  I don't want to have to hurt you.~ */
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~VALYGARJ~ 72
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 9 // from:
  SAY #52280 /* ~Valygar, I... you cannot help me.  Men... take <CHARNAME> and... kill the rest.~ */
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~VALYGARJ~ 73
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 10 // from:
  SAY #52282 /* ~I'm sorry, my old love.  I truly am.~ */
  IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("SunaTalkedToValygar","GLOBAL",1)
SetGlobalTimer("Encounter4End","GLOBAL",90)
Enemy()~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 11 // from: 3.1 0.2
  SAY #53029 /* ~No... no I do not believe you. I can take no chances until I hear from... I waste time here! Take <PRO_HIMHER>!~ */
  IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobalTimer("Encounter2End","GLOBAL",90)
ActionOverride("reeldar",Enemy())
ActionOverride("refigh01",Enemy())
ActionOverride("remage01",Enemy())
ActionOverride("recler01",Enemy())
ActionOverride("rethie01",Enemy())
Enemy()
~ EXIT
END

Valygar's lines (VALYGARJ.dlg):
Code: [Select]
IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 70 // from:
  SAY #52275 /* ~Suna?  Suna Seni?  What... what are you doing here?~ [VALYGA84] */
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~RESUNA~ 7
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 71 // from:
  SAY #52277 /* ~What?!  You... work for the man that is hunting <CHARNAME>?  Suna, that wizard is a man of terrible evil!  Why are you doing this?~ */
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~RESUNA~ 8
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 72 // from:
  SAY #52279 /* ~You have no choice?  Suna, if the wizard is controlling you, somehow, we can help you.  You don't have to do this.~ */
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~RESUNA~ 9
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 73 // from:
  SAY #52281 /* ~Suna, no!~ */
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~RESUNA~ 10
END





Offline jastey

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Re: Suna Seni component - discussion about design
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2018, 01:25:20 AM »
Just to let you know. For the Corthala Romantique mod, the three lines I pointed out above will be tuned down to make the two mods compatible.

The changes are:
Quote
/*
@170  = ~Suna Seni!  Oh, how I have longed to see your beautiful face once again!  I have missed you so much since I fled the city.  I am sorry I had to leave you so suddenly and without explanation.  It pained my soul to know that I might have hurt you.~
*/

REPLACE_SAY VALYGARJ %valygar_state_1% @0 /* ~Suna Seni! How nice to see your beautiful face once again! I fled the city. I am sorry I had to leave so suddenly and without explanation. It pained my soul to know that I might have hurt you.~ */

/*
@172  = ~Yes, my love, I am fine.  <CHARNAME> paid me a visit in my cabin and has offered to aid me in my quest to stop Lavok.~
*/

REPLACE_SAY VALYGARJ %valygar_state_2% @1 /* ~Yes, Suna, I am fine. <CHARNAME> paid me a visit in my cabin and has offered to aid me in my quest to stop Lavok.~*/

/*
@188  = @188  = ~I'm so sorry for leaving you, my love.  If I had only known, I would have hunted down the wizard myself.  It seems my family's curse runs deeper than I'd feared.~
*/

REPLACE_SAY VALYGARJ %valygar_state_3% @2 /* ~I'm so sorry, Suna. If I had only known, I would have hunted down the wizard myself. It seems my family's curse runs deeper than I'd feared.~*/

Offline ithildur

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Re: Suna Seni component - discussion about design
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2018, 04:20:42 AM »
I have to say, I think Jastey's assessments of the Suna Seni component is spot on. It's one of the few components of UB I NEVER install after seeing the strange, out of character dialog and plot hints/characterization that just doesn't fit with the rest of the game. Stylistically, this component feels like one of the many poorly written fan made romance mods from the earlier days of modding, not an Unfinished Business component.

I think the earlier bugs interacting poorly with SCS random encounters version of Suna Seni at least got fixed at some point? Never bothered to confirm because I can't stomach installing this component as is currently; every time I see Valygar gush out the over-the-top 'VALYGAR LOVES SUNA IN CASE YOU MISS IT' dialog I cringe a little.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 04:23:25 AM by ithildur »

Offline jastey

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Re: Suna Seni component - discussion about design
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2018, 10:51:56 AM »
Thank you for your backup! :)
Concerning the random encounter I don't have any knowledge about how it plays out in the game but I found some notes about it in the UB code that lead me to the conclusion that someone already was adding something to make sure the player does not meet two Suna Senis.

 

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