Author Topic: Zeitgeist: install order of mods  (Read 140 times)

Offline subtledoctor

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Zeitgeist: install order of mods
« on: June 03, 2017, 02:28:31 PM »
Just as a preface, anyone who was privy to the way I worked with Grammarsalad on the Faiths & Powers mod would see that I am sort of obsessive about the structure and skeleton of these kinds of things.  I had DESIGNATED components, matching up to string ranges in the .tra files, before any of the components were completed, and before most were even created.  So excuse me if this suggestion seems basic or obvious.  This is just where my mind goes when I think of this stuff.  (Thus, for example, my suggestion to create a component flag that doesn't do anything.)

Anyway I was reading some of the comments about the state of BWS over at G3, and it occurred to me that there are really 4 main functions of that program:
1) downloading mods
2) establishing install order
3) resolution of conflicts
4) triggering Weidu install of everything

Right now, Zeitgeist encompasses #4.  I think it's not too much to ask for players to handle #1, and my idea for a compatibility component flag would shift #3 to modders. Leaving the question of how to deal with #2.  here again, as with conflict resolution, I think it is inefficient, and really asking too much of one person, to have whoever is maintaining the mod manager deal with install order issues.  I think this could be kicked out to be handled by the community.

My basic idea is, players could have a text document, with a basic prescribed format - something as simple as
Code: [Select]
setup-cdtweaks.tp2     100
setup-cdtweaks.tp2     200
setup-NPC_EE.tp2     100

It's totally arbitrary.  The important part is to simply set up the required format, and have it be something that Zeitgeist can read.  Have players drop a file like this into their directory, and have Zeitgeist a) display mods in this order in the UI; and 2) install mods in this order when the player hits "go."

Then, let players figure out the best order.  Let people make different versions of this file and pass them around on forums.  All they will need to do is drop it into their game folder, and then run Zeitgeist.  And hopefully the formatting will be simple enough that rank noobs would be able to edit it or insert new entries if they want to.

Basically, if not exactly this, something like this.  This way Zeitgeist itself will only need to be concerned with #4, but it will support mechanisms for players and modders to deal with #1, #2, and #3.

I am aware that both of my suggestions rely heavily on component numbers, and that can be problematic if modders don't use DESIGNATED.  But a) life isn't perfect; b) component numbering is really perfect for these kinds of applications (in addition to REQUIRE_COMPONENT, FORBID_COMPONENT etc.) and c) modders should be encouraged to start using DESIGNATED if they don't already, because it is extremely useful.

There's my random thoughts for the day.  Cheers

Offline AL|EN

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Re: Zeitgeist: install order of mods
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2017, 03:49:20 PM »
My basic idea is, players could have a text document, with a basic prescribed format - something as simple as
It already exist: weidu.log, Zeitgeist needs only to import weidu.log and sort present mods using it's mods+component and install sequence.

When you bring BWS exported configs/compilations experience at the table, even one single change to one single mod will break every weidu(installation).log which was posted before the change. The DESIGNATED is not something which can be reliable. What we need is GUID-like system for components but i have't think about it much.
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Offline subtledoctor

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Re: Zeitgeist: install order of mods
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2017, 07:19:55 PM »
Well, right, but weidu.log is an important file which is needed to show after the fact which mods/components were installed. Maybe just use that formatting, but a different file extension... so I could share my successful weidu.log with you, and you could simply rename it to weidu.ord (or whatever) and then Zeitgeist would use it as a guide for display order/installation order of whatever mods I have in my game folder when I start Zeitgeist.

BUT the reason I posted this is because Wisp is developing Zeitgeist and he would know best what kind of formatting of the document could be parsed by Zeitgeist. That's what should(/must) control.

Offline Wisp

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Re: Zeitgeist: install order of mods
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2017, 04:06:22 PM »
There may or may not be one or more features for assisting with install orders under consideration, but it the event such was the case, it'd be for after the currently planned things have been taken care of.


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