Author Topic: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements  (Read 1551 times)

Offline Salk

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Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« on: August 25, 2015, 11:10:34 AM »
Hello!

As I am coming close to the end of the first half of my first complete BGT experience, I would like to express my concern about how Bioware seemed to have cut several corners in the last chapters of the game (6 and 7). I am not at all fond of how Chapter 6 is rather poorly planned (Candlekeep library) wasting all those resources (meeting with Ulraunt and Tethoril made impossible by the Warden that arrests you) that are there and should have been used.

My suggestion for Chapter 6 then is as following:

the Warden doesn't spawn on the sixth floor, preventing the party to interact with the two mages and explore that area of the library but rather would spawn on the way back to the third floor where the actual killing of the Iron Throne leaders happened.

Ideally, there would be a cutscene but perhaps that's asking too much...

About Chapter 7, these are the problems:

1) Once the Flaming Fist becomes hostile, their shout turns the peasant/nobles hostile as well and I would personally prefer they wouldn't do that

2) Before that, once you are in prison, the only way out is to suck up to a child murderer. I expect many don't like to resort to that so I wish there was a secret passage (after all Neb mentions that there is one and challenges you to find it) that would lead out (ideally the same passage used by Neb)

3) At the coronation, the party is not given the chance to explore the duchal palace because as soon as the fight with the doppelgangers is over, Belt wants to teleport you into the thieves guild. My suggestion is to not let Belt initiate that dialogue but rather let the player talk to him instead

What do you think, AstroBryGuy?  ;)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 11:31:07 AM by Salk »

Offline Echon

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2015, 03:01:06 PM »
I certainly agree regarding chapter 6. It always bothered me that I had to use stealth or invisibility to meet those two NPCs.

Offline Tash

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 04:11:23 PM »
I see you're not far behind me in your playthrough, Salk.  :) I'm playing the original, though.

I think your suggestions are good. The Gatewarden really appears out of nowhere and could be moved.

That Neb guy must be a sick joke. It's something we grew to expect from the people behind these games. It could be considered a flavor.

In the original BG1, I got the option to decline both Belt's and Liia's requests. So, they divined Sarevok's location, but didn't teleport me. I didn't like the respective lines, but it wasn't the first time in the game I wasn't too keen on what my character was saying.  :P

It was pretty hard to save Liia. These gangers hero-targeted the heck out of her!  ;)

Offline Salk

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 04:25:44 PM »
I see you're not far behind me in your playthrough, Salk.  :) I'm playing the original, though.

In all these years, I only finished the original game once and I liked it better than the sequel.

Quote
That Neb guy must be a sick joke. It's something we grew to expect from the people behind these games. It could be considered a flavor.

Yes, I suppose. But this one is particularly distasteful, in my opinion. My instinct was to keep away from him and I hated being forced to consort with him

Quote
It was pretty hard to save Liia. These gangers hero-targeted the heck out of her!  ;)

I let the game protagonist cast healing spells on her while my party (I play with a self created party) fought valiantly and so far I managed to keep my no reload challenge intact. Let's see if I can complete it...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 04:26:16 PM by Salk »

Offline Tash

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 01:51:47 PM »
In all these years, I only finished the original game once and I liked it better than the sequel. (...)

Out of curiosity: what's your current WeiDU log?  :)

Offline Almateria

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2015, 03:54:53 AM »
You are in prison
The only guy willing to kinda-help you is a child murderer, the choice is pretty easy, either you rot or become his pretend pal
That's literally the entire point of his character, to make you do stuff you're not comfortable to Save The World™

Offline AstroBryGuy

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2015, 07:45:17 PM »
Looking at Tethtoril's dialog, TETHTO2.DLG, I don't see any useful unused lines. The only unused line would be State 0:

Quote
"You there! I have come to speak with <CHARNAME>. Hast thou come to collect the inheritance from your father? He left thee several items, all of which are within his old room. You remember where his old room is, don't you? If you've somehow forgotten, it's on the fifth floor of the central keep. Please forgive my abrupt nature, but much requires my attention this day. It is important that we later speak of your foster father, but not now."

That line would be rather odd to have Tethtoril say on the sixth floor of the keep. It sounds like something to have Tethtoril say at an appearance outside the central keep, in AR2626 (then promptly EscapeArea() into the keep). There's a similar line in TETHTO.DLG that might be more appropriate for Tethtoril on the sixth floor.

Ulraunt's dialog just tells you he's too busy and dismisses you.

So, there doesn't seem to be much added by changing the Warden's location (just a couple one-line interactions), but it wouldn't be too hard. Remove the Warden from AR2614 (he doesn't spawn, his CRE is attached to the ARE file) and add script blocks to spawn the Warden on the third floor once you've visited the sixth (you will still be arrested if you leave the keep). Although, I'd suggest the Warden (or a Watcher) spawn on the sixth floor if you actually killed Rieltar.


As for Chapter 7:

1. This could be solved by adding a block to SHOUT.BCS that all INNOCENTs run rather than fight.

Code: [Select]
IF
Class(Myself,INNOCENT)
Heard([ANYONE],99)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
RunAwayFrom(LastHeardBy(Myself),180)
END

2. Regarding Neb, there doesn't seem to be any indication of an alternate means of escape. There are no doors or passageways that can be opened. The doors into that wing of the cell block can't be opened (the "doors" there aren't flagged as doors in the game and there's no unused "open" tiles in the TIS file). BGEE does add a dialog state in case you attack Neb where he gives up and lets you out.

3. Haven't had a chance to look at this to see if that would break anything. It sounds ok, but you know, unintended consequences and stuff...  ;)

Offline Salk

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 06:04:29 AM »
Thank you for all your help and inputs, guys.

Find your analysis flawless, AstroBryGuy. It's just that I pretty much hate to see nicely, uniquely created areas and characters go to waste (Candlekeep library, sixth floor / Duchal palace) like that.

Tash, my weidu.log is attached... (currently I just started BG II but I am taking a break...) ;)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 06:05:40 AM by Salk »

Offline AstroBryGuy

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 09:51:35 AM »
Here an possible .d script for adding states to TETHTO2.DLG. I'm borrowing the unused lines from TETHTO.DLG.

Code: [Select]
APPEND ~%tutu_var%tethto2~
  IF WEIGHT #-2 ~Global("Chapter","GLOBAL",6) Global("Arrested","GLOBAL",0) Global("UBTethtorilCh6","GLOBAL",0) !Dead("Rieltar")~ THEN BEGIN UBTethtorilCh6
  SAY ~I am pleased to see thee again. Hast thou come to collect the inheritance from your father? He left thee several items, all of which are within his old room. Please forgive my abrupt nature, but much requires my attention this day. It is important that we later speak of your foster father, but not now. Meet me in the outer grounds later today.~ // #9
    IF ~~ THEN DO ~Global("UBTethtorilCh6","GLOBAL",1)~ EXIT
  END
  IF WEIGHT #-1 ~Global("Chapter","GLOBAL",6) Global("Arrested","GLOBAL",0) GlobalLT("UBTethtorilCh6","GLOBAL",2) Dead("Rieltar")~ THEN BEGIN UBTethtorilSurrender
  SAY ~Surrender to the guard, young one. Thou wouldst only make it worse for thyself.~ // #10
    IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Why do you ask us to surrender? We have done nothing wrong.~ // #7231 - first part
      DO ~Global("UBTethtorilCh6","GLOBAL",2)~ GOTO UBTethtorilNoSurrender
     IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Sorry, we can't surrender.~ // #7231 - second part
      DO ~Global("UBTethtorilCh6","GLOBAL",2)~ GOTO UBTethtorilNoSurrender
   IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Very well. I will surrender.~
      DO ~Global("UBTethtorilCh6","GLOBAL",2) CreateCreature("%tutu_var%WATCH6",[1050.850]%FACE_0%) ActionOverride("%tutu_var%WATCH6",MoveToObject(Player1)) ActionOverride("%tutu_var%WATCH6",Dialog(Player1))~ EXIT   
  END
  IF ~~ THEN BEGIN UBTethtorilNoSurrender
  SAY ~You only make things harder on yourself, child.~ // #7233
    IF ~~ THEN EXIT
  END
END

Offline Salk

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 10:48:20 PM »
Sounds good, AstroBryGuy! ;)

Offline Salk

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2017, 07:15:39 AM »
After over one year since we've been discussing these changes, I wonder if anything proposed in your code has made it to the latest BG1 UB, AstroBryGuy?

Offline AstroBryGuy

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 10:59:29 PM »
I had these changes about 75% done when I had a hard drive failure last year. Unfortunately, the changes were in a local branch of the repository, not in the main branch on GitHub. So, I lost it all...

Haven't had the time to recreate it.

Offline Salk

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 02:40:50 AM »
Sorry to hear that...

If I can be of any help with testing on a BGT platform or in any other way just let met know!

Offline Salk

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Re: Chapters 6 and 7 improvements
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2017, 02:44:50 AM »
Well, I tried to do something myself about the sixth floor of the Candlekeep library.

Code: [Select]
// Try and fix the mess with the 6th floor of the Candlekeep library
COPY_EXISTING ~%tutu_var%tethto2.cre~ ~override~
 REMOVE_CRE_ITEM ~%tutu_var%SHLD04~
 REMOVE_CRE_ITEM ~%tutu_var%BLUN05~
 REMOVE_CRE_ITEM ~%tutu_var%CHAN02~
 REMOVE_CRE_ITEM ~%tutu_var%SCRL75~
 WRITE_ASCIIE 0x2cc ~%tutu_var%TETHTO~ #8
BUT_ONLY

<<<<<<<< stweaks-inlined/#gtethto.d
ADD_STATE_TRIGGER ~%tutu_var%TETHTO~ 0 ~Global("Arrested","GLOBAL",0)~
ADD_STATE_TRIGGER %tutu_var%~TETHTO~ 1 ~Global("Arrested","GLOBAL",0)~
ADD_TRANS_ACTION ~%tutu_var%TETHTO~ BEGIN 0 END BEGIN 0 END ~MoveToPointNoInterrupt([1000.824])
DestroySelf()~
>>>>>>>>
COMPILE ~stweaks-inlined/#gtethto.d~

COPY_EXISTING ~%Candlekeep_Library_L6%.are~ override
  PATCH_IF SOURCE_SIZE > 0x28f BEGIN
    actnum = (0 - 1)
    READ_LONG 0x54 act_off
    READ_SHORT 0x58 act_cnt
    FOR (i = 0; i < act_cnt; i += 1) BEGIN
      READ_ASCII (i * 0x110 + act_off) act_name (32) NULL
      PATCH_IF (~%act_name%~ STRING_EQUAL_CASE ~Gatewarden~ = 1) BEGIN
        actnum = i
      END
    END
    PATCH_IF actnum >= 0 BEGIN
      LAUNCH_PATCH_FUNCTION fj_are_structure
        INT_VAR fj_delete_mode = actnum
        STR_VAR fj_structure_type = actor
      END
    END
  END
BUT_ONLY

<<<<<<<< stweaks-inlined/#ggatew.baf
IF
Global("Criminal","GLOBAL",1)
Global("GateWSpawn","AR6508",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("GateWSpawn","AR6508",1)
CreateCreature("%tutu_var%GATEWA2",[1658.1254],5)
END

>>>>>>>>
EXTEND_BOTTOM ~%Candlekeep_Library_L1%.bcs~ ~stweaks-inlined/#ggatew.baf~
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 02:46:31 AM by Salk »

 

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