Author Topic: Released: Divine Intervention  (Read 6065 times)

Offline Macready

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Released: Divine Intervention
« on: December 25, 2012, 09:07:27 AM »
This is something I've been toying around with for my own use that I thought I might as well release when I'm done with it.  Thus far, I've only addressed levels 1 and 2.  There will be a download link once work and playtesting has been completed.

http://www.usoutpost31.com/divineintervention/

Update: Work has been completed and a download is available.  If anyone tries it, I'd appreciate feedback.  Did it do what it says it will on the mod home page?  Assuming yes, how would you rate the impact on your gameplay experience?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 09:58:36 AM by Macready »
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Offline Kulyok

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2012, 11:14:13 AM »
That's really lovely. I'd want this for Viconia in BG1... and even Anomen in BG2, I think. Resist Fear and Evil for the entire day seem a bit cheesy - not sure if I can get used to it - but nice. What about Draw Upon Holy Might? I think casting time of 1 would be helpful there, as perhaps a more lengthy duration, like 2 rounds per level(or, heck, the entire day, now that I think of it. But that's definitely creamy cheese)? And Magic Stone - how is it enchanted, does it work like a +1 weapon(i.e. creatures that are immune to +1 weapons are immune to this)?

Offline Macready

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 05:37:55 PM »
Hello Kulyok.  I hope the holidays find you well.

Resist Fear and Evil for the entire day seem a bit cheesy - not sure if I can get used to it - but nice.

This is pretty much how it played in NWN, and really feels quite natural and nice.  The things that didn't last an hour per level lasted usually long enough (combined with the short resting) to keep up all the time.  It was great, you felt powerful - and then someone would cast a Dispel Magic and remind you very abruptly of your mortality.

DuMH already has a casting time of 2, which is pretty short.  The spell description explicitly mentions that it's supposed to have a short duration - that plus the power level made me want to leave that one alone.

The reworked magic stone isn't a weapon at all - more like a magic missile - so it would pretty much hit anyone who isn't immune to level 1 spells via innate ability or spell protection.

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2013, 01:03:46 AM »
Wow, this is a really great idea- looks to be hugely convenient for the player, and also makes Divine casters carry their weight in the party better (I often hold off recruiting my cleric in Tutu as low level clerics offer so little IMO). Saving me time and improving balance will make this a must have on release.

Any thoughts on making some of the arcane equivalent buffs long duration? On the one hand this would be equally convenient, but on the other hand conceptually I like the idea of "buffs that last all day" being a big differentiator for divine casters.

Hold animal, Repulse undead, Confusion (at level given) come to mind as slightly sad divine spells. Fire seeds duration is decent but would be more likely used if it was a bit longer.

Still, looking forward to release for my next playthrough.

Tinter

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2013, 01:33:12 AM »
Also, sorry to double post but would changes to the spell Spiritual Hammer automatically change Branwens special ability? If not, would you add this as well? Similarly, do you think comparable changes to Mazzys and cavaliers remove fear and paladins protection from evil are appropriate/ are they also automatic?

My apologies if the above questions have obvious answers- my modding knowledge is 0. Thanks for all the work.

Offline Anacron

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2013, 05:03:13 PM »
I spent a while looking for the download link, was all set to came back to complain until I actually read the OP properly.  This looks exciting indeed, and I share some of the sentiments about the divine spells in BG2.

Offline Macready

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 05:21:37 PM »
Hello again.

Progress update: I'm now through level 3.  I've also circled back and made some adjustments to the first two levels as my approach to this firmed up.

Any thoughts on making some of the arcane equivalent buffs long duration? On the one hand this would be equally convenient, but on the other hand conceptually I like the idea of "buffs that last all day" being a big differentiator for divine casters.

For now, my focus is exclusively on divine spells. I do agree with the idea that priests should be better than wizards at buffing.

Quote
Hold animal, Repulse undead, Confusion (at level given) come to mind as slightly sad divine spells. Fire seeds duration is decent but would be more likely used if it was a bit longer.

I agree about Hold Animal.  It already has an optional replacement that hasn't yet made the documentation. I'll keep your remarks about the other spells in mind as I start on level 4 and higher spells.

As for the special abilities and kit abilities, I haven't touched them yet (except for the innate Slow Poison, which I gave the same treatment as the spell). This means they haven't changed, yet. I may circle back for some of them, though.

Thanks for the interest and the thoughtful remarks.
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Offline Macready

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2013, 05:22:37 PM »
I spent a while looking for the download link, was all set to came back to complain until I actually read the OP properly.  This looks exciting indeed, and I share some of the sentiments about the divine spells in BG2.

Thank you!  So far the play testing has been fun, so I'm hopeful others will find this to be worth a go.
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Offline Macready

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2013, 08:27:39 AM »
Also, sorry to double post but would changes to the spell Spiritual Hammer automatically change Branwens special ability? If not, would you add this as well? Similarly, do you think comparable changes to Mazzys and cavaliers remove fear and paladins protection from evil are appropriate/ are they also automatic?

All of these innates have now been addressed.
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Tinter

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2013, 12:02:32 PM »
Nice! Changed for Mazzy as well? Just asking because saw the other two NPCs were listed individually.

I like the cure wounds spells scaling, but theres also the issue of the higher level Cure spells, especially Cure Medium Wounds, not being very worthwhile. Possibly this could also be balanced for? Perhaps something like:
Cure Light Wounds: 8+ 1 per 3 levels
Cure Medium Wounds: 15+ 1 per 2 levels
Cure Critical Wounds: 30+ 1 per level
This would make the higher level ones slightly more appealing than at present; by the time a cleric is in the teens, Mass Cure will heal the whole party for nearly as much as Cure Critical Wounds heals one character.

The same scaling could be applied to the Cause Wound spells, which are currently useless. They could probably do with even more, maybe a status effect or healing the cleric? For example, Cause Wounds Critical requires a cast and a succesful melee attack for 27 damage; Flamestrike does at minimum 1d4 per level (earliest- level 9, so at least 9d4, average 18) and possibly double that if a save is not made- just from a casting.

Tinter

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2013, 12:06:04 PM »
...9d4 for an average of 22.5, even.

Offline Macready

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 01:52:11 PM »
I've finished with the fourth divine spell tier, and did some further tweaking to the first three.

Nice! Changed for Mazzy as well? Just asking because saw the other two NPCs were listed individually.

No.  Mazzy's innate is not Remove Fear; it is a slightly different spell known as Invoke Courage.  It carries with it some extra benefits (save bonuses, THAC0 bonus).  Since it has an offensive component, and since it already has a decent duration (an hour), I chose to leave it be.

Re: healing, I am trying to keep the big picture in mind as I tweak each spell.
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Offline Macready

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Re: WIP: Divine Intervention
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 01:15:35 PM »
Through tiers 5 and 6.  Once the seventh tier has been addressed, coding will be complete.
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Offline Macready

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2013, 09:59:11 AM »
Work has been completed, and a download link is now available.  Please see the OP in this thread.
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Offline Kulyok

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2013, 12:56:23 PM »
Released! Great, I was planning a BG2 replay soon. Congratulations! I'll go add it to the modlist.

Offline Daulmakan

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 04:24:31 PM »
Congrats. Will give it a go in the future.

Offline Anacron

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 06:07:54 AM »
I just started a new BG2 with this, cleric PC & Anomen in the party, so far only done the Copper Coronet & Slaver Compound quests.  It feels great, Shield of Faith & Flame Blade work well, everything lasts as long as I'd expect.  I now hate Dispel Magic with a passion. ;)

Speaking of which, should Shield of Faith be removed by Dispel Magic? Because it hasn't been anytime it's cast on me, currently.

Edit: a suggestion I thought of, after I forgot to install one mod when I was setting up this game and thus my Goodberries are shit.  How about including that relevant component from Sim's tweak pack?  Of course it's easy to install it oneself, but just for convenience and to have all the cleric spell improvements together in one handy package.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 11:47:30 AM by Anacron »

Offline Macready

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 04:19:36 PM »
I just started a new BG2 with this, cleric PC & Anomen in the party, so far only done the Copper Coronet & Slaver Compound quests.  It feels great, Shield of Faith & Flame Blade work well, everything lasts as long as I'd expect.  I now hate Dispel Magic with a passion. ;)

Speaking of which, should Shield of Faith be removed by Dispel Magic? Because it hasn't been anytime it's cast on me, currently.

It should be removed. I'll double check to be sure it didn't get flagged as undispellable.

Quote
Edit: a suggestion I thought of, after I forgot to install one mod when I was setting up this game and thus my Goodberries are shit.  How about including that relevant component from Sim's tweak pack?  Of course it's easy to install it oneself, but just for convenience and to have all the cleric spell improvements together in one handy package.

I wouldn't be comfortable doing that unless he gave me permission. Maybe I'll send him a PM and ask.

Thanks for taking the time to post feedback!
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Offline Macready

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 06:06:06 PM »
Shield of Faith is definitely dispellable.
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Tinter

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2013, 10:20:38 AM »
Just thought I'd provide some more feedback now I've had time to get some more play in.

Generally, I personally find it a big improvement, both in terms of reducing percieved (if not actual) metagaming and in making my clerics contribute more consistently over time. It is mostly a boost to my party in general adventuring rather than for main fights, and in a way that feels appropriate (and increases my affection for divine casters/fits with my RP vision thereof). Its also an excellent de facto convenience tweak, one I much prefer to vanilla buffing (either manual or with AI).

However, I think a couple of spells are long duration where they may have been better left as a combat protection rather than being given long duration.

Negative Plane Protection was clearly designed as a combat buff. Vampires really aren't very scary now- obviously, the standard tactic was send in two NPCs with the relevant items, but just like when dealing with beholders this is a still a change in game style and pacing that was worthwhile. Now, unless there is a mage vampires are totally worthless. At the least, a longer duration NPP would seem to warrant a substantially higher spell level, but I think a shorter (still increased but perhaps not to full encounter length) version is more desirable.

Similarly, Chaotic Commands is now very cheap making illithids go down to a non-issue- I can just massacre them, really. Obviously, I can basically do this anyway, but shorter durations make it tougher to clear out areas of them.

 I agree with the principle of long duration buffs in general but where a spell is primarily used to render a type of enemy non-threatening I think its probably best left as a combat buff.

Shield of the Archons is similar; it already had a pretty good duration, and probably should be a cast per encounter buff- which makes sense given its nature. Long duration magic resistance is also a bit OP- its a very powerful effect which is rightly difficult to achieve in vanilla; even dispellable magic resistance is a bit too much at the cap of the spell.

Generally, I think the above spells would be better with a somewhat shorter duration in terms of balance- longer buffs should be reserved for less gamechanging effects.

Unrelated but I also think divine zeal is a little strong- I would go with +1 to hit, with +2 to hit, +1 to damage from level 11. Of course, thats optional so doesn't matter so much.

Of course, I expect the mod reflects your existing preferences for play which is fair enough, but never hurts to share I suppose/hope. Thanks for all the work.

Cav

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2014, 12:25:51 AM »
Have there been any further developments with this mod? The changes sound very interesting, but there's been no activity for a year and I can't seem to find much about it in terms of install order and compatibility.

Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: Released: Divine Intervention
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2014, 01:42:21 AM »
that's the problem with folk spending their own time making these things.

thanks for the thoughtful feedback, tinter
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 01:43:37 AM by Cybersquirt »
Stupid is as stupid does.

 

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