Author Topic: IWD NPC for IWD-in-BG2, feedback  (Read 5767 times)

Offline Dakk

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IWD NPC for IWD-in-BG2, feedback
« on: January 18, 2012, 03:19:05 PM »
Hi Kulyok!

I'd like to start with praising you for this mod, it's a masterpiece. The barren areas of Icewind Dale would be especially bleak without your great collection of NPC's and their banter. I've played with the mod on IWD proper, and got so far as a/the romance starting - very promising.  :)

Now I'm using it for my beta (it's almost beyond beta now) testing of IWD-in-BG2 - another superb piece of modding. The gang is still a hoot, and I'm enjoying taking different conversation paths. I've got some feedback regarding class, stats and proficiencies, if you don't mind.

Banter-feedback
Both of these are very minor quibbles.
1) At the start of the game, in the inn, when you talk to the dwarf (Hildreth), Severn quips "Perhaps this man actually wants to give us advice". Only thing is that Hildreth is a female. :) There is dialogue path where you can jibe about her name and then get told she's a female and that dwarven women have beards, but this banter is on the other path (mutually exclusive).

2. When you meet Jhonen, the first conversation goes like this (no screenshot attaching for me):
"What kind of dreams?"
"Well, there's a woman.. . and don't give me that eye, it's not like you think... she walks upon the surface of the lake as if it were flagstones instead of waves. She doesn't say anything, just sings - beautiful songs, but I can't understand a word."
"Well if dreams are your only worry [...]"
"If truth be told, friend, I... the... dammit, there's no sense to it! [...] I... by the hells, I don't know how much more of this I can take.
"Shall we speak to her? Learn about intentions? Appeal to her better nature?"
The last line is spoken by Nella, and it's a bit jarring. Speak to whom? A lady he dreams about? This would make more sense if it was said either after you tell him you might know who he's dreaming about, or at least after you've met the blue skinned elf.

My apologies in advance if it's considered a faux pas to propose a revision of NPC's to the author. What I'd propose to do is:
Stats
I ran the numbers on all of them, and their total "score" is pretty consistent and respectable. A quick refresher:
[spoiler]
Name STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA (total)
Holvir 18/00 11 16 12 14 17 (88)
Nella 10 16 11 18 17 (88)
Severn 16 17 16 16 13 15 (93)
Teri 15 18 16 17 10 13 (89)
Korin 15 17 16 15 14 10 (87)

One eye-catching stat however is that all of them have 16 CON. That, and Korin got a really low WIS (class minimum for an Elf Ranger). Proposed changes:
Holvir and Severn: Remove one (-1) CON from Severn and give it (+1) to Holvir. This has three benefits, 1) Not everyone has 16 CON, 2) Severn gets a little bit more fragile, 3) Holvir - who hits like a truck, but is just as easy to hit back - will get a few extra, needed, HP.
Korin: Give him one (+1) point of WIS. This won't help if he stays a Ranger (or any kit), but as a ranger/cleric it's a slight boost to his repertoire (a 2nd level spell). And also, as he have the arguable weakest statline of all (as his INT won't do him any good, even if it looks good story-wise) it's well deserved. Elf ranger/cleric is btw illegal I think, but meh.

Proficiencies
This is a bit trickier. As this mod originally is for IWD and the IWD-in-BG2 version has much more wide selection of available profs, I hope you don't mind if I chip in my suggestions. They mostly concern the Weapon Styles. Proposed changes:
Holvir: These changes are the most comprehensive. He starts with ++ in Two-handed Sword and Halberd. I'd propose + in Two-handed Sword, + in Sword and Shield and ++ in Bastard Swords. The reason for this is two-fold.
First, Holvir is really the only one in the entire band that's at all likely to use a shield; Korin will likely use ranged, two-handed, weaponry and mixing that up with a shield is a chore (he'd do best to specialise in two weapons or one handed weapon), Teri won't be using a shield as a FM, MT or a FMT, Severn can't use a shield and Nella can't use a shield as a druid (and will likely use two-handed weaponry).
Secondly Holvir is really the main tank in the party - and he's a pincushion for early Goblin, not to mention Orc, archers. A large shield give -2 AC against missiles, and S&S style gives another -2. Makes a huge difference in the early game, without any powergamey feel. He still retains the possibility to switch over to two-handed sword goodness later without any problem.
Nella: Drop one + in Clubs and add one + to Two Handed Weapon style. Adds a bit more flair to her staff wielding.
Severn: Drop the + in Short Sword and add one + to Crossbows. He's not going to go toe to toe with anyone wearing no armour... OTOH, singing a song and sniping the occasional bolt (and he's perfect candidate for Crossbow, a prof most likely unused by this party otherwise) is right up his alley.
Teri: I used the component to make her a MT - which I think is quite common - and she's got one + in Long Sword and Short Sword. The Long Sword is illegal I think, and either way I'd suggest moving the + in Long Swords to Short Bows. As she's not a going to be an offensive magic threat for quite some time, and she sure isn't going into melee range, it gives her a bit of bite. Also, Short Bow is otherwise not used by the party.
Korin: I used the component to make him an Archer. He's really fine, and quite efficient, except that his +++ (in Long Bow) is illegal to start with in IWD. Change to ++ in Long Bow and Long Sword.

All in all my proposed changes doesn't change their character or feel cheesy, it just gives (IMHO) more variety and a more balanced party. Default only 1 NPC out of 5 has any ranged profs at all, which is murder (literally). With changes 3 NPC out of 5 has it, and Severn can't really count as more than a ½ ranged attacker anyway :) Given the propensity for the protagonist to be a melee powerhouse, it balances out nice. I'm playing as a Monk, and it's a really great party (especially as the Monk can't use any of the weapon loot)!

Well, that's it. Thank you again for this wonderful mod!  8)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 03:39:40 PM by Dakk »

Offline Kulyok

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Re: IWD NPC for IWD-in-BG2, feedback
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 11:38:36 PM »
Hello! Thank you for your review! I will do some updates in the future(ranged proficiencies, probably) - though I hoped Level 1 NPCs would take care of those. :)

Offline Dakk

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Re: IWD NPC for IWD-in-BG2, feedback
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 01:12:15 PM »
Hello! Thank you for your review! I will do some updates in the future(ranged proficiencies, probably) - though I hoped Level 1 NPCs would take care of those. :)
Ah yes, having IWD NPC's (for IWD-in-BG2) compatible with L1NPC would be a smooth way of handling proficiencies (and also classes/kits). Even though if you feel like changing a few proficiencies it could help those that doesn't install L1NPC.

Stats however I do not believe L1NPC change - or allow to change - in any way. Also, while I'm somewhat ok with changing proficiencies with SK I can't bring myself to alter stats (I'd feel like I was both cheating and trampling the author's intent :-[), so if you would consider giving Holvir another point in CON I'd be much obliged.  ;D

Offline Kulyok

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Re: IWD NPC for IWD-in-BG2, feedback
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 11:27:34 PM »
Sure, it's not a big change, after all. And I think Level 1 NPC's latest version does change stats - I once played with Xan's strength at 18/00. Felt like cheating, so I started a different playthrough, but still. :)

Offline Dakk

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Re: IWD NPC for IWD-in-BG2, feedback
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 05:28:39 AM »
Yay! And exactly, if I change stats myself I feel like cheating. I need a respected modder to set them  :D
And I think the change is warranted, it makes our Paladin friend a bit more rugged (and last playthrough I had 16 CON, making the whole party having 16 CON - it seemed statistically improbable;)). Thanks again!

PS. Xan with 18/00? You're smitten.. smitten badly  ;)

Offline Dakk

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Re: IWD NPC for IWD-in-BG2, feedback
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 02:38:29 PM »
Just a heads up, I've taken the liberty to remind the L1NPC crew (who - via Quester - seems to be in a NPC-adding-frenzy) that the IWD NPC's for IWD-in-BG2 needs to be added. :)

Offline Kulyok

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Re: IWD NPC for IWD-in-BG2, feedback
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 11:42:18 PM »
Yes, thank you! I hope it'll get added. :)

 

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