Author Topic: Case Studies (debunked)  (Read 3178 times)

Offline temujin

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Case Studies (debunked)
« on: July 24, 2010, 02:17:23 PM »
http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showtopic=4884

It appears this orwellish miscreant has once again resorted to "They stole my idea!  I invented item randomization!!!  ME! ME! ME!!!" :rolleyes:  Time to inject this delusional, falstaffian blowhard with another dose of reality and put him in his place.


Quote from: Sikky
As you know, my idea of randomizing items via scripts was stolen and a mod was created out of that idea without sending any permission request to me and without even mentioning my name.

:D :D :D

I'm not sure why you still keep demanding credit for an idea that was never yours to begin with.  An idea which you clearly stole yourself.  Simply insisting it's yours doesn't make it true, Sikky :(

Folks, whenever Sikret mentions he came up with the idea of "randomizing items via scripts," he is only telling you half the story, while deliberately leaving out the other half.  First, there are two things people should understand - the concept of item randomization, and the implementation (coding) of this concept - neither of which were conceived by Sikret.


The Concept of Item Randomization

As you all know, the concept of randomizing items had already manifested in the minds of several human beings LONG before Sikret came along.  As a matter of fact, even before Weimer's mod for IWD2.  This is an indisputable fact since we can check for ourselves in Icewind Dale 1.  Here's a little quote from Dan Simpson's walkthrough of IWD1 (a game that was released SIX years before the first version of Improved Anvil):

Quote from: Dan Simpson
To enhance replay value, most of the better treasures are "randomized."  So one time you might get the "Armor of Goodness", the next time you might get "Potion of Not so Goodness."

.
.
.


  QUEST:  Kill the Goblins and Retrieve Damien's Fish

    Note:  We're coming up on the first RANDOM TREASURES in the game.  Normally
           when you open a chest, you will get the same items every time you
           open that chest.  If the first time through the game you find a
           Hammer of Unholy Smiting, the next time you will find that.
           However, some items are random.  One time you will find the Hammer,
           the next it could be the Armor of Unholy Protection.
  If ever you're
           unsatisfied with the random item you got, simply reload to a
           previous save (one that isn't in the same area), and try again.

Even Planescape Torment has randomized item drops.  From Simpson's PST walkthrough, "Random item drops will occur here [UnderSigil], in particular the rare and highly coveted Bell's Shield and Ring Zero. These won't appear anywhere else in the game."



The Implementation of this Concept

Sikret claims he randomizes items via scripts.  What he doesn't tell you is that dialogs are nearly identical to scripts, in the sense that you can use just about every trigger and action that you'd normally see in a script (BCS) in a dialog (DLG) as well. (Why is this point worth saying?  I'll get to this in a minute.)  The actual item randomisation in Improved Anvil is done through heavy use of the RandomNum function in order to distribute items.

At this point I have to go into a little more detail to get to the bottom of this instead of talking in generic/abstract terms.  Let's look at ONE such example of randomization in Improved Anvil.


AR0602.BAF:

Code: [Select]
IF
  Global("Iavecnaplace","GLOBAL",0)
  RandomNumLT(4,3)
THEN
  RESPONSE #100
    SetGlobal("Iavecnaplace","GLOBAL",3)
END


and S!fsdrag.baf:

Code: [Select]
IF
  Detect([PC])
  Global("Iatreasure","LOCALS",0)
  Global("Iavecnaplace","GLOBAL",3)
THEN
  RESPONSE #100
    SetGlobal("Iavecnaplace","GLOBAL",5)
    SetGlobal("Iatreasure","LOCALS",1)
    GiveItemCreate("wa2robe",Myself,0,0,0) //
END

What does the above code mean, in layman's terms?

In plain English, the code in the first script, AR0602.BAF, means: "create a random number between 1 and 4.  If the generated random number happens to be less than 3, then assign a value of 3 to the global variable 'Iavecnaplace' to ensure the item has been randomized."

In plain English, the code in the second script, S!fsdrag.baf (part of a creature script, to be precise), means: "if the global variable 'Iavecnaplace' is set to 3, then give myself (i.e. the creature who happens to use this script) the Robe of Vecna;  {otherwise, the Robe of Vecna will be given to some other creature using the same process}"

----------------------------------------------



That is, in essence, Sikret's original, never-before-seen ::) idea of item randomization.  [generate RandomNum + SetGlobal variable + check Global variable + GiveItemCreate] ...

If this approach was truly unique, as Sikret insists, then we should *not* be able to witness this type of randomization anywhere else prior to Improved Anvil, right?


Except the fact is... we DO see an identical style of randomization even in the unmodded, vanilla game!

Two words:  Naljier Skal

The lunatic from the Spellhold Asylum who gives the PC random items when you ask him about his "pretties".

Here is a decompiled code snippet of his dialog file - PPNALJ.DLG (note the highlighted lines in bold):

Quote
SAY #53819 /* ~I used to have my pretties. Some are hidden... where only I can see. Want to see?~ [PPNALJ07] */
IF ~RandomNumGT(100,0)
RandomNumLT(100,36)
GlobalLT("Pretties","GLOBAL",5)
~ THEN DO ~DialogueInterrupt(FALSE)
SetInterrupt(FALSE)
IncrementGlobal("Pretties","GLOBAL",1)
SetGlobal("CreatePretties","GLOBAL",1)
SetGlobal("GiveItem","LOCALS",1)

CreateVisualEffectObject("SPCRTWPN",Myself)
Wait(3)
DialogueInterrupt(TRUE)
SetInterrupt(TRUE)
StartDialogueNoSet([PC])
~

.
.
.


IF WEIGHT #1 ~Global("CreatePretties","GLOBAL",1)
Global("GiveItem","LOCALS",1)

~ THEN BEGIN 8 // from:
  SAY #57873 /* ~Many many pretties... piled high beyond the sky. (sigh) ~ [PPNALJ09] */
  IF ~~ THEN DO ~GiveItemCreate("Amul13",LastTalkedToBy,0,0,0)
SetGlobal("GiveItem","LOCALS",0)
~

Notice it follows the same [generate RandomNum + SetGlobal variable + check Global variable + GiveItemCreate] principle.  And this is just one example.  To see more similar cases of randomization, check out the behavior of:

- The Deck of Many Things

- the Genie from the spell Wish

- Morul, the mage apprentice, who gives you random potions once you gain control of the Planar Sphere

- Dradeel - another mage in the Spellhold Ayslum who gives you a bunch of random recipes

- Machine of Lum The Mad


As a matter of fact, this RandomNum function is used in hundreds of AI scripts in the unmodded game.  And I haven't even looked at the randomization techniques used in other games yet (PST, IWD1, IWD2, etC)

Based on this overwhelming evidence, how this simp could insist he was the first to come up with the idea is just mind boggling.


Does one car company ask another for permission before making a car, when the first ever car was already invented by someone unrelated to the entire automobile industry some CENTURIES back?  ???


You wanna see a real act of thievery?

Take a look at how the very first version of Improved Anvil was promoted:

Quote from: Fraudonius
Improved Anvil -- the new item upgrade


Quoting the author:
Quote:For a long time, Weimer's "Item Upgrade" mod was a fixed installatin choice for many BG2 players. It was almost the time to bring a change and to blow some fresh air to BG2.

Improved Anvil is (hopefully) a brilliant substitute for "Item Upgrade" mod and surpasses the quality of that already well-designed mod in all respects. Improved Anvil adds many new items and item upgrades to the game and will provide Cromwell and Cespenar with numerous new recipes to make those items for you. Furthermore, the mod improves and fixes several buggy or badly designed encounters and battles of the original game. All of the changes, however, will be removable by uninstalling the mod. That is to say, when you uninstall Improved Anvil, no permanent trace will remain and everything will change back to what they were (though I cannot even imagine why someone may want to uninstall this mod ). Despite the numerous and important changes and fixes this mod applies to the game, its download size is reasonable. The mod is entitrely bug-free and is successfully tested and approved in a non-modded and clean installation of the game.

If you encounter any bugs while playing this mod, it is more than 99% probable that something is wrong with one of the other mods you have installed. In such a case, I will be grateful if you report the issue so that we can find the source of the problem together.

Improved anvil is a progressive project. I am looking forward to receiving suggestions from people who have played the mod in practice in order to expand the mod in its future versions and releases. All good suggestions will be applied to future versions with the name of people who made those suggestions. The mod belongs to everyone who loves it and wants it to improve.

I'm confident that this mod will turn to be a fixed installation choice for all BG2 players versy soon, but for now, you are the ones who should try it and send me your feedbacks and opinions. Needless to add that I am the first one to admit that this mod can improve even further and I surely need your help and your suggestions.

Notice the way Sikret introduces Improved Anvil by taking advantage of the name and popularity of Weimer's mods.  Not only does he not credit Weimer for inspiring him to make IA, but he actually diminishes Weimer's work by saying how much it sucks and how much superior his own mod is.  :D :D :D

Someone later tells Sikky to look at Weimer's Solaufein to get a few ideas for improving enemy AI;  Sikky admits that he's already looked at Weimer's scripts from that mod.  In the same breath, he downplays Weimer by saying the AI appears powerful only because of their "immunities and special abilities."  Yet, THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE VAST MAJORITY OF ENEMIES IN IMPROVED ANVIL ARE DESIGNED - by way of boosting their resistances, immunities, special abilities, regeneration rates, and other stats...

Pathetic, lying, classless fraud.

This clown has spent his entire modding "career" competing with Weimer's stool samples, while riding on his coattails at the same time.

Weimer makes an enemy improvement mod (Tactics), Sikky follows suit.

Weimer makes an item randomization mod, Sikky follows suit.

Weimer makes an item-upgrading mod, Sikky does the same.

Weimer makes an NPC mod (Solaufein), Sikky made plans to create his own (Mansur NPC).

Weimer makes a kit mod (Anti-paladin), Sikky follows up with his Riskbreaker/Auramaster/Vagrant.

...


Sikky, where did you get all the code for making these things?  How come I never saw you explain this part before? ???  Did the ideas and code just magically appear in your head?  :D :D :D

Or did you just... "borrow" them from elsewhere?   ;)

Offline the bigg

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Re: Case Studies (debunked)
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2010, 02:33:41 PM »
IR is coded in SCS-style SSL, so it's pretty obvious that Wisp can't have copied code from IA even if he wanted to  ;)
Author or Co-Author: WeiDU (http://j.mp/bLtjOn) - Widescreen (http://j.mp/aKAiqG) - Generalized Biffing (http://j.mp/aVgw3U) - Refinements (http://j.mp/bLHoCc) - TB#Tweaks (http://j.mp/ba02Eg) - IWD2Tweaks (http://j.mp/98OFYY) - TB#Characters (http://j.mp/ak8J55) - Traify Tool (http://j.mp/g1Ry9A) - Some mods that I won't mention in public
Maintainer: Semi-Multi Clerics (http://j.mp/9UeIwB) - Nalia Mod (http://j.mp/dng9l0) - Nvidia Fix (http://j.mp/aRWjjg)
Code dumps: Detect custom secondary types (http://j.mp/hVzzXG) - Stutter Investigator (http://j.mp/gdtBn8)

If possible, send diffs, translations and other contributions using Git (http://j.mp/aBZFrq).

Offline temujin

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Wait a minute!
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 11:48:01 AM »
I was looking for evidence of item randomizing via scripts prior to Improved Anvil throughout the interweb, when in fact, the evidence that I needed WAS RIGHT HERE ALL ALONG! :D :D 

It's even more concrete than the Naljier Skal example.



EXHIBIT B:

Complete Scripting Guide by SimDingO:

Quote
3) How can I cause random item placement via scripts?
For placement in areas, you would need to modify the area scripts, and add a block to randomly spawn the items.
For example:

IF
    Global("addtreasure","AR9999",0)
THEN
    RESPONSE #100
        SetGlobal("addtreasure","AR9999",1)
        ActionOverride("container",CreateItem("item1",1,0,0))
    RESPONSE #100
        SetGlobal("addtreasure","AR9999",1)
        ActionOverride("container",CreateItem("item2",1,0,0))
    RESPONSE #100
        SetGlobal("addtreasure","AR9999",1)
        ActionOverride("container",CreateItem("item3",1,0,0))
END

Alternatively, to randomly spawn items on creatures, you could add something similar to a creature script, using a local variable.

Game Over, Sikky  :(



You see... you are *not* the first to come up with this idea.  It was already proposed long before you entered the picture.

Now I know what you're gonna say.  That it was SimDingo who stole it from you and simply appended his scripting guide after Improved Anvil.   ;D ;D ;D

Well guess what?


Here is a link to older, archived copies of this same scripting guide from the Internet Archive (there is no way anyone could've tampered with this) :

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.pocketplane.net/tutorials/simscript.html


Click on the Dec 23, 2004 link.

As I said, the first archived copy of that guide is from Dec 23, 2004.

The first version of Improved Anvil was released on April 2006.


Check-fuckin-mate.



Understand this, simp.  Your monolithic brain is simply not capable producing any unique, original ideas no matter how much you insist (except maybe for swindling and exploiting the public).

The only actual thievery is done by you when you cruised through your entire modding career feeding on Weimer's leftovers.  And now, here you are, using HIS modding tool, and his ideas, and making money out of them.   ::)


The audacity of this clown...

Offline Daulmakan

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Re: Case Studies (debunked)
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 03:51:46 PM »
Quote from: Simding0
When you're going to claim with any degree of certainty that people are jealous of you and that all other mods are bugged (which Sikret has been happy to do at length time and time again, not just in that thread), I believe that you are on shaky ground. Okay, you've hacked together some conceptually daft golems with laughable resistances and implemented some scripting techniques that I taught you and you argued with me about at the time. If people enjoy your mod, then that's cool, and more power to them, but please stop pretending you're some sort of second coming.

Link

Offline temujin

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Re: Case Studies (debunked)
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 05:47:41 PM »
Finally the clown responds.

Quote from: Sikky the Simpleton
Someone invented an electronic device. Some others stole his idea and made a similar instrument. When the first person protested, they replied: "Transistors, wires and electricity all existed before you and you used these things to make your device; so, you have no right to claim that it was yours!"

You're twisting my words my again, Sikky :(

Is it just a bizarre coincidence that you happened to implement your method of randomizing based on the same principle used in Naljier's Skal's case?  [generate RandomNum + SetGlobal variable + check Global variable + GiveItemCreate]  ???

And I like how you conveniently and COMPLETELY ignored the part of me mentioning the idea of randomizing items via scripts was already proposed in Simding0's scripting tutorial.  Where is your response to that?  ???


Quote
The main question was whether there was any other "item randomizer mod" prior to IA (using the same idea and method).

Wrong again, dipshit.  The very first sentence of your "case" says:

Quote
As you know, my idea of randomizing items via scripts was stolen and a mod was created out of that idea

Right here, you CLEARLY say randomizing items via scripts was YOUR IDEA.  When in fact, the exact same idea was mentioned in Simding0's scripting guide.

Now here you are, once again, pathetically and covertly changing the premise of your argument from "my idea of randomizing via scripts" to "whether there was any other 'item randomizer mod' prior to IA (using the same idea and method)"


Your fate is sealed, Sikky.  You've been exposed as a lying, no-skilled, no-talented, dimwit who simply leeched off an idea that was already mentioned in a tutorial.




P.S - since you've turned Improved Anvil (a.k.a "the new Item Upgrade") into an illegal modding business, does your wife and kids know that the food that's being put on their table every night is due to the result of a man called Westley Weimer?  ;)   Do you think they are "proud" of your racket, Sikky?  :-X
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 05:52:09 PM by temujin »

Offline temujin

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Re: Case Studies (debunked)
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 06:24:43 PM »
And one more thing:


Quote from: Sikret the Simpleton
Someone invented an electronic device. Some others stole his idea and made a similar instrument. When the first person protested, they replied: "Transistors, wires and electricity all existed before you and you used these things to make your device; so, you have no right to claim that it was yours!"

If the model, idea, and/or blueprints for this electronic device were ALREADY LAID OUT in an "invention tutorial" (which is the case here), then NO, the first person did not "invent" the device.  He simply stole the idea/model that was already there and claimed it as his own.


Any other questions?

Offline Jarin

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Re: Case Studies (debunked)
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2010, 04:28:14 PM »
If we'd only see stuff like this unlike the usual flaming...

This is a textbook case of an solid argument, except for the personal attack at the beginning, which makes this look slightly unproffesional. Still, the amount of research you put into this is commendable.