Author Topic: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.  (Read 2729 times)

Offline Jarin

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An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« on: February 07, 2009, 01:10:15 PM »
I will start with the voicepacks as I consider it more urgent. You see, in Easytutu, you get 6 voicepacks from BG1. However, the 'Default' voicepacks are overlooked. As the default male voicepack from vanilla BG1 sounds quite nice, I would like to see those back in BG2/easytutu (the 'Default' voicepacks in BG1 is something entirely unique, unlike the ones in bg2 ;).

The other question: Does Hard Times make any changes to creatures, or does it make any tactical changes at all? Or is it 'just' a magic item tone-downer/remover/expensifier.

Offline Macready

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2009, 01:48:50 PM »
Hello -

I will start with the voicepacks as I consider it more urgent. You see, in Easytutu, you get 6 voicepacks from BG1. However, the 'Default' voicepacks are overlooked. As the default male voicepack from vanilla BG1 sounds quite nice, I would like to see those back in BG2/easytutu (the 'Default' voicepacks in BG1 is something entirely unique, unlike the ones in bg2 ;).

What exactly am I missing?  I'm grabbing everything from BG1's sounds folder.

Quote
The other question: Does Hard Times make any changes to creatures, or does it make any tactical changes at all? Or is it 'just' a magic item tone-downer/remover/expensifier.

Very minor stuff.  I recall finding many creatures who had some sort of mail on, yet still had an effective AC of 10.  So I adjusted quite a few enemy armor class values to reflect their armor, shield and dexterity.  I also did an odd creature tweak here and there (I gave the revenant a haste effect, I remember that).  But such modifications are few and far between -- the mod's focus is the economy of adventuring in an iron crisis.
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Offline Echon

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2009, 01:59:28 PM »
Very minor stuff.  I recall finding many creatures who had some sort of mail on, yet still had an effective AC of 10.  So I adjusted quite a few enemy armor class values to reflect their armor, shield and dexterity.

I was under the impression that the engine calculates the effective AC based on equipment and what-have-you. All human and demihuman NPCs have their AC set to 10.

Offline Macready

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2009, 10:47:59 PM »
Hello -

Very minor stuff.  I recall finding many creatures who had some sort of mail on, yet still had an effective AC of 10.  So I adjusted quite a few enemy armor class values to reflect their armor, shield and dexterity.

I was under the impression that the engine calculates the effective AC based on equipment and what-have-you. All human and demihuman NPCs have their AC set to 10.

I could be wrong.  But I do remember observing that some NPCs wearing plate / mail were absurdly easy to hit.

Take Jardak as an example.  Plate, helm of glory, shield, 16 DEX.  Should be an AC of -1, right?  Try consoling in a Jardak in an unmodified Tutu installation and see how (not) difficult he is to hit.
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Offline Jarin

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2009, 01:08:49 AM »
Hello -

I will start with the voicepacks as I consider it more urgent. You see, in Easytutu, you get 6 voicepacks from BG1. However, the 'Default' voicepacks are overlooked. As the default male voicepack from vanilla BG1 sounds quite nice, I would like to see those back in BG2/easytutu (the 'Default' voicepacks in BG1 is something entirely unique, unlike the ones in bg2 ;).

What exactly am I missing?  I'm grabbing everything from BG1's sounds folder.

Install BG1
Get a Male or Female character.
Select the soundset 'Default'
Hear a sample of the soundset.
Note that it is quite different from the other 6 avaible soundsets. Also, it is the only soundset that actually is subtitled if you put subtitles on, so I guess it's incorperated into the game in the same way that the NPC soundsets are.

Thanks for answering the Hard Times qeustion. Now I call upon your advice: I am wondering if I should choose Hard Times, SCS, or both to make the game harder. I'm not having to much difficulties with BG2 using D0quest combined with a medium difficulty setting, nor do I have a problem with Planescape on hard. Recommendations?

Oh, and another qeustion regarding the AC on the creatures. If one installs Full Plate & Packing steel, all the AC modifications you made may be a bit to much, as FPPS significantly lowers (highers?) the AC bonus for wearing say... full plate, and gives it a nice damage resistance instead.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 01:13:24 AM by Jarin »

Offline Echon

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2009, 05:10:40 AM »
I could be wrong.  But I do remember observing that some NPCs wearing plate / mail were absurdly easy to hit.

Take Jardak as an example.  Plate, helm of glory, shield, 16 DEX.  Should be an AC of -1, right?  Try consoling in a Jardak in an unmodified Tutu installation and see how (not) difficult he is to hit.

I do not remember where Jardak is but what did you use for testing? A 7th-level fighter with weapon mastery, a +2 weapon and high strength will have a THAC0 of 7, give or take a bit. That equals a 60% chance to hit, 2½ times per round.

Offline Macready

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2009, 10:17:57 AM »
Hello -

Install BG1
Get a Male or Female character.
Select the soundset 'Default'
Hear a sample of the soundset.
Note that it is quite different from the other 6 avaible soundsets. Also, it is the only soundset that actually is subtitled if you put subtitles on, so I guess it's incorperated into the game in the same way that the NPC soundsets are.

I'm not sure how to get at the sound resources to which you're referring.  Anyone here know?

Quote
Thanks for answering the Hard Times qeustion. Now I call upon your advice: I am wondering if I should choose Hard Times, SCS, or both to make the game harder. I'm not having to much difficulties with BG2 using D0quest combined with a medium difficulty setting, nor do I have a problem with Planescape on hard. Recommendations?

I wouldn't combine them on the first pass.  They each take a very discernably different approach in their attempts to make things a bit more challenging, so I guess I'd recommend that you decide which approach appeals to you more and go with that one alone.

Quote
Oh, and another qeustion regarding the AC on the creatures. If one installs Full Plate & Packing steel, all the AC modifications you made may be a bit to much, as FPPS significantly lowers (highers?) the AC bonus for wearing say... full plate, and gives it a nice damage resistance instead.

Well, the issue Echon and I are discussing is whether the effective AC of NPCs is controlled separately from what they're actually wearing.  So your concern may be moot.
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Offline Macready

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2009, 10:37:11 AM »
Hi -

I could be wrong.  But I do remember observing that some NPCs wearing plate / mail were absurdly easy to hit.

Take Jardak as an example.  Plate, helm of glory, shield, 16 DEX.  Should be an AC of -1, right?  Try consoling in a Jardak in an unmodified Tutu installation and see how (not) difficult he is to hit.

I do not remember where Jardak is but what did you use for testing? A 7th-level fighter with weapon mastery, a +2 weapon and high strength will have a THAC0 of 7, give or take a bit. That equals a 60% chance to hit, 2½ times per round.

I did some quick testing now and I am unable to replicate the "easy hit" behavior I was describing.  I'll test more carefully as time allows.

EDIT: Given that I can't replicate the behavior that caused me to make the adjustments in the first place, and seeing as the mod really isn't about tactical changes anyway, I'm just going to remove most instances of the AC adjusting.

The one puzzling thing in all this is that I playtested the entire game with the mod using a melee character, and I don't remember the modified creatures being unreasonably hard to hit.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 10:58:48 AM by Macready »
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Offline Skrupper

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 07:04:23 PM »
Hi Macready,

While I was reading this thread I became rather intrigued at the missing default sound sets and where they were located. So I fired up Near Infinity and was actually able to successfully find them. I searched for the string reference for one of the subtitles and was able to find the sound file it linked it. There are 2 sets of default voices (1 male, one female logically) and they are located with the soundsets for all other npcs (in Near Infinity with the WAV files). One is MAINFxx.WAV and the other is MAINMxx.WAV. Obviously these would need to be extracted and, I think, converted to be used as a regular soundset, but they are there, and as the OP said, they are quite nice.

BTW, been using Tutu for years and have loved what you have done with EasyTutu, and just wanted to give you my appreciation for the hard work.

Offline Macready

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Re: An question about Hard TImes and the included bg1-voicepacks.
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 05:38:10 AM »
Thanks for the research and the kind words.  I'll take a look at getting those sound elements integrated into EasyTutu.
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