Author Topic: PnP BG2 mod?  (Read 13036 times)

Offline Andrea C.

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PnP BG2 mod?
« on: January 23, 2009, 06:39:27 AM »
Hello.

I've been perusing my AD&D player's handbook in the last few days and it occurred to me that a lot of PnP rules were either left out or houseruled in BG2. Now, I'm no modder so I'm not in a position to volunteer for the creation of a mod, but I would very much like to see a mod faithfully implementing as many PnP rules as a CRPG may benefit from. Would this be at all possible and would some of you modders out there be even remotely interested in it?

Offline Moschops

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 12:50:13 PM »
Hello.

I've been perusing my AD&D player's handbook in the last few days and it occurred to me that a lot of PnP rules were either left out or houseruled in BG2. Now, I'm no modder so I'm not in a position to volunteer for the creation of a mod, but I would very much like to see a mod faithfully implementing as many PnP rules as a CRPG may benefit from. Would this be at all possible and would some of you modders out there be even remotely interested in it?

IMO, the problem with trying to make a CRPG with PnP rules is you end up with something like Temple of Elemental Evil, which was a horror wrapped in an abomination.

I think there are a fair amount of mods already out there, though, that seek to implement PnP rules into BG2.  Problem is that they aren't all in one place and they tend to be mixed in packages with the designer's own house rules and interpretations.

Offline Kulyok

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 12:57:57 PM »
Try BG2 Tweaks from gibberlings3.net, if you haven't already - they've got quite a few PnP rules implemented.

I'm not a fan, because when it comes to rules, I like the game the way it is(except for "fake talk"\"fog of war" strategies, but they're hardcoded). Smart dialogue add-ons, romances and quests are more to my liking.

Offline aVENGER

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 06:51:29 AM »
Some components of Rogue Rebalancing and aTweaks can bring certain aspects of BG2 closer to PnP AD&D rules.

I'd also recommend checking out Echon's Fields of the Dead and Galactygon's Spell Pack.

Offline cmorgan

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 09:52:36 AM »
I second aVENGER - and add the note that Fields of the Dead is the capstone of "play AD&D 2E Rules using the infinity engine" mods. Echon's whole premise is wrestling the game into true 2E land. Very cool.

Offline Echon

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2009, 11:21:38 AM »
As long as it is not one of the ridiculous AD&D rules, such as maximum levels for demihumans.

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 06:21:25 PM »
Enough of those... Ooh! Heavy physical spellbooks! Lose them and your wizard is toast! Wonderful idea. ;)

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 02:11:25 AM »
Forget the spellbooks, I want mages to have to collect the required physical reagents for every spell!  ;)

Although I am a little irked by the way the game decides to completely ignore reality every now & then--you get caught in a shipwreck and are dragged down to the bottom of the sea by dozens of man-eating shark-people. Not only does the entire party survive this without a scratch, but all your gear is perfectly intact as well--your bowstrings didn't even get wet!

Offline Kulyok

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 02:17:51 AM »
I was scared the first time I saw the "...and you are pulled overboard, gasping for air in an undertow you cannot escape..." opening. After losing Yoshimo and my character's soul, I'd say that losing my char's robes, staff and potions would be the last straw!

Then again, Chapters 4/5/7 feel a little rushed.

Offline ddv

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 03:39:52 AM »
I was scared the first time I saw the "...and you are pulled overboard, gasping for air in an undertow you cannot escape..." opening. After losing Yoshimo and my character's soul, I'd say that losing my char's robes, staff and potions would be the last straw!

Then again, Chapters 4/5/7 feel a little rushed.

Thats actually a good idea that would make things much more interesting in the underdark and put a fresh spin on it. However, the only way to coax players into letting that happen would be making it a mandatory component of a larger underdark related mod. Even then, don't announce it, just let it be a rude surprise  ;D. Seriously.

Offline Andrea C.

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 07:27:49 AM »
A BG2 version of Fields of the Dead is exactly what I'd be looking for.

Btw, I'm curious as to how the optional rule of "Speed factor" was implemented in IE games: in PnP it is based on initiative, which I guess doesn't amount to much in a real time game...

Offline Echon

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 10:39:26 AM »
From what I have seen, speed factor depends entirely on the weapon or spell being used. There appears to be no random element.

As for The Fields of the BG2 Dead, it would require a ridiculous amount of work.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 10:43:15 AM by Echon »

Offline Andrea C.

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 12:30:31 PM »
Speed factor is a fixed value in PnP too: it's a malus applied to each character's initiative roll depending on the weapon they're using or spell they're casting (initiative in 2E was rolled every turn and could be modified at any given time, if a new weapon was drawn or a particular spell was cast).

And yes, I guessed so about Fields of the BG2 Dead... I would do it myself but I'm no modder and wouldn't even know from where to start.

Offline Echon

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 12:54:54 PM »
What I was trying to say is that there is no initiative roll.

Offline Jarin

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2009, 02:04:03 PM »
As long as it is not one of the ridiculous AD&D rules, such as maximum levels for demihumans.

The WHAT?

Offline Echon

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2009, 02:07:02 PM »
Come on. It only makes sense that non-humans cannot improve beyond a certain level in some classes.

Offline cmorgan

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2009, 03:13:43 PM »
Gygax and early AD&D had some balance stuff that kept getting modified between versions. Some were awkward, like demi-humans had level caps, or my favorite "always broken by the house DM" rule - some odd class restrictions. Page 13, 2E Player's handbook. The only races that could be clerics were half elves, half orcs, and humans. Only NPCs could be clerics from the other races. And they were level restricted there, too - the most powerful cleric a half orc could become was 4. (halflings were not even allowed NPC clerics - see p. 14. Apparently, they were *godless* little hairy-footed kleptomaniacs, instead of *god-fearing* little hairy-footed kleptomaniacs :) ). I can't remember which book it was, but I think the earliest versions had male/female restrictions, too. I'll have to go find my Blackmoor and Greyhawk pamphlets, dust 'em off, and see.

Offline jcompton

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2009, 03:41:41 PM »
I can't remember which book it was, but I think the earliest versions had male/female restrictions, too.

1e didn't have gender restrictions on class, but all races had strength caps and the female of the species had a lower cap than the male.
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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009, 06:05:30 PM »
Thankfully, haste doesn't age people a year in BG2. There would be hair falling off and breasts sagging everywhere within weeks... (Stardust-style  ;D)

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2009, 01:21:19 AM »
Classic story: Once, a long time ago, there was a PnP campaign where the protagonists were all Mages (or something along those lines). They got to high levels, pooled their resources, and built themselves a Mage Tower made out of diamond or adamantite, or similarly durable material. The DM decided that they'd had it too easy for too long (no really, ya think?), and decided to give them a challenge. In the dead of night, a small army of high-level Wizard Slayers laid siege to the tower, and erected a special Antimagic Shell around it, so the wizards couldn't teleport away. Then the Wizard Slayers started attacking the tower itself--because of the nature of its construction, it would most likely take days to effect a breach, but they would get through eventually. And due to the extremely high Magic Resistance of the attackers, the mages inside would find it very difficult to harm them, or even scare them away, without being peppered with arrows for their trouble. So, what to do, what to do?

After some consultation amongst themselves, all the mages sat down and furiously started creating spell scrolls. Scroll after scroll went by, as they gave up sleep in order to write more spells. By the third day, they had a stack of over 100 scrolls copied. They memorized some Invisibility and Protection from Missiles spells, got some rest, and the next morning they were ready. They cast their buffs, appeared at the windows, and read off multiple scrolls of Haste at their attackers. The Wizard Slayers paused momentarily, rather surprised at this turn of events, and then grinned and attacked all the faster. The Mages kept reading Hastes at them, and the army stopped shooting and let them do it, while continuing to batter down their tower. Only after the last scroll was gone did the players remind the DM that since Haste is a friendly spell, it can't be blocked by Magic Resistance . . . and each casting of it ages the recipient(s) by one year. ;D DM facepalm!

And then, the smiling Mages grabbed their staves and their daggers, trooped down the stairs & out the main gate, and proceeded to clobber the snot out of the geriatric Wizard Slayers in hand-to-hand combat.

Offline Echon

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2009, 07:53:28 AM »
Ordinarily, spells do not bypass resistance, friendly or not, but some book added that creatures with magic resistance may temporarily lower it.

Regardless of that, it was an inventive use of Haste. :)

Offline cmorgan

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2009, 12:52:07 PM »
Now *THAT* is what I call PnP Old Skool D&D!!!! That must have been one helluva great campaign!

Offline Andrea C.

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2009, 05:51:57 PM »
That was actually pretty awesome! :D

The 2E DMG had an optional rule to remove the class level caps to demihumans, anyway.

Offline Nerik

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2009, 08:20:38 AM »
IIRC one of the later 2nd ed. AD&D hardbacks (I think it was either Tome of Magic or Spells and Powers added a rule that any effect that magically aged someone also requred them to make a system shock roll... or DIE :o

Under that rule, I doubt that there would be many of the wizard slayers still alive by the time the wizards had used all their scrolls.

Charles
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 07:10:28 AM by Nerik »

Offline Marauder

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Re: PnP BG2 mod?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2009, 06:00:04 AM »
I think we can all agree that D&D is rather silly.

I happen to like silly things every now and then :)
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