Author Topic: About the mod  (Read 6720 times)

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About the mod
« on: August 25, 2008, 05:09:43 PM »
At first, being a huge fan of 2ed, I was excited about this mod's features, but got almost instantly turned off by the way poisons were made to operate.

As far as I can tell, it is even further away from how they work under the 2ed PHB and DMG than the original Bioware method. It also makes it seem as if poisons are overkill with the changes this mod introduced.

I was extremely dissapointed of the rules lawyer-esque non modularity and all-or-nothing attitude this mod takes. I am hoping that with the advent of a WeiDU version, at least some components will be optional.

However, if none of it will be optional, is there a way of manually reversing the poison modifications? I really would like to try this mod.

Thank you in advance.

Offline Echon

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 07:36:09 AM »
At first, being a huge fan of 2ed, I was excited about this mod's features, but got almost instantly turned off by the way poisons were made to operate.

As far as I can tell, it is even further away from how they work under the 2ed PHB and DMG than the original Bioware method. It also makes it seem as if poisons are overkill with the changes this mod introduced.

In 2E, some poisons are immediate but most of them have onset times. Most also do a certain amount of damage delivered all at once if the saving throw is failed (and some even if it is successful) and a few kill the victim outright. None of them do x amount of damage per round for y rounds. I wanted to change poison to how it works in 2E but unfortunately I was unable to implement the onset times. This has made some types of poisons more powerful than they should be, of course, and to offset that, I made some potions and spells provide immunity to posion, something they normally do not. However, Wyvern poison, for instance, which works immediately and kills PCs with poor saving throws, is the exact same as in 2E. Having said this, I should add that I am not satisfied with how poison works overall and something needs to be inserted where onset times should be. Besides, lots of people have said "your mod rocks but poison sucks" and I am not going to ignore feedback. Furthermore, I do not want this to be a pure rules lawyer mod although it may have begun as such. In some ways, though, I think the current system is more fair towards spellcasters than the old one. Not all creatures do tons of poison damage and a mage may survive 20 damage and follow up with Invisibility or Mirror Image. Previously spellcasting was more or less impossible with constant 1 points of damage.

Quote
I was extremely dissapointed of the rules lawyer-esque non modularity and all-or-nothing attitude this mod takes. I am hoping that with the advent of a WeiDU version, at least some components will be optional.

The Fields of the Dead is not a tweak pack, it is a different version of the game. I have made it all or nothing at the moment simply because I believe ingame consistency would be screwed otherwise. You do not get the option to leave out traps or enemy clerics when installing the game, either. I am interested in knowing which components you think the mod should be divided into, however.

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However, if none of it will be optional, is there a way of manually reversing the poison modifications? I really would like to try this mod.

Go to the override folder and delete ETTERC*.ITM, SPID*.ITM, WYVERN*.ITM and ITMs corresponding to other poisonous creatures I may have forgotten.

Offline aVENGER

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 07:43:58 AM »
I wanted to change poison to how it works in 2E but unfortunately I was unable to implement the onset times.

Have you tried experimenting with timing mode 3 (Delayed Duration)?

If I understand the problem correctly, you should be able to use it to simulate poison effects which are supposed to manifest after a certain amount of time passes.

Offline Echon

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2008, 07:47:33 AM »
Yes, I tried that. After the delay, it says 'Poison' and then nothing happens. I think the effect is coded to only work the way BioWare used it. Then I tried delayed spells with immediate poison effects but antidotes and Slow Poison cannot be made to remove those spells.

Offline aVENGER

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2008, 03:20:30 PM »
Yes, I tried that. After the delay, it says 'Poison' and then nothing happens. I think the effect is coded to only work the way BioWare used it. Then I tried delayed spells with immediate poison effects but antidotes and Slow Poison cannot be made to remove those spells.

Did you try using the opcode #12 (HP Damage) with the damage type set to poison (2097152) instead of the regular poison opcode? That should work properly with the delayed timing mode. In BG2, the regular Thief Snares use that to deal poison damage for three rounds after they have been triggered. For reference, check the second extended header of BG2's SPCL411.SPL.

Offline Echon

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2008, 03:42:33 PM »
It does work but how are antidotes and spells with similar effects going to cure that poison damage during the onset time?

Offline aVENGER

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2008, 04:05:57 PM »
It does work but how are antidotes and spells with similar effects going to cure that poison damage during the onset time?

Sadly, I don't think they'll be able to do that by default.

One solution for that problem might be to apply the onset poison effects through a SPL file with a new secondary type (i.e. ONSETPOISON) which you'd introduce. After that, you could then add opcode #221 to the antidotes and target it at the new secondary type. Galactygon is more experienced with these issues so he might be able to help you out further.

Offline Echon

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2008, 04:13:37 PM »
I hate to shoot your suggestions down because I appreciate the help but secondary types were introduced in BG2.

Offline aVENGER

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2008, 01:34:15 AM »
I hate to shoot your suggestions down because I appreciate the help but secondary types were introduced in BG2.

Right, I forgot that you were working with the BG1 version of the IE.

Oh well, I guess there's not much to do about it there. You might be able to pull that off if you ever do a Tutu conversion.

Offline Galactygon

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2008, 08:15:27 AM »
You do not need sectypes, but combinations of opcodes 146, 206. In BGI, opcode 146 (Cast Spell On Creature) interrupts actions, and opcode 206 (Protection from Spell) DNE. So unless you do it in Tutu (which I would), there isn't much for you to do. I hardly think people use the BGI engine these days.

-Galactygon

Offline Echon

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Re: About the mod
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2008, 10:41:28 AM »
I hardly think people use the BGI engine these days.

Considering that the current version is incompatible with Tutu and the number of downloads, I know they do. I do not think the mod will be different for Tutu.

 

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