Poll

The various kits' Called Shot abilities and Enhanced Called Shot HLAs all have a duration of 2 rounds. Should this be extended? Left the same?

Extend the duration, but make the ability more powerful
0 (0%)
Extend the duration but keep the ability the same
0 (0%)
Extend the duration but make the ability less powerful
0 (0%)
Keep the duration 2 rounds, but make the ability more powerful
0 (0%)
Keep everything just the way it is
3 (75%)
Same duration, but tone down the power level
1 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Author Topic: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?  (Read 5356 times)

Offline SixOfSpades

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Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« on: August 11, 2008, 11:03:47 AM »
Work on Version 2 is puttering along nicely. All the bugs are FINALLY squashed, and I'm making some non-bug-related changes, like tweaking Called Shot, but I want some input from you on it before I waste valuable pixels.

The Way Things Stand Now

ARCHER's Called Shot:
      after Level 4: For the duration, the Archer recieves a -1 bonus to ranged THAC0, but a +5 penalty to AC
      after Level 8: Upon each hit, the target must Save vs. Spells or become Entangled for 3 seconds
      after Level 12: +2 bonus to missile damage
      after Level 16: Target must Save with a +3 penalty to avoid Entanglement
Enhanced Called Shot HLA: Same as above, but with the additional effect of a weakened version of Call Lightning striking the target, doing 2D8 Electrical damage (Save vs. Wands for half) on each successful hit.

BOWMAN's Called Shot:
      after Level 4: For the duration, the Bowman recieves a -1 bonus to ranged THAC0, but a +5 penalty to AC
      after Level 8: Upon each hit, the target must Save vs. Death with -3 bonus or suffer Morale Failure: Panic for 3 seconds
      after Level 12: +2 bonus to missile damage
      after Level 16: Target must also Save vs. Death to avoid being Stunned for 2 seconds
Enhanced Called Shot HLA: Same as above, but with the additional effect of forcing the victim to Save vs. Death with a -3 penalty or be paralyzed with Fear for 1 round, with a chance of dropping their weapons in terror.

HUNTSMAN OF SILVANUS's Called Shot:
      after Level 4: A -1 bonus to ranged THAC0, but a +5 penalty to AC and melee THAC0
      after Level 10: Additional -1 ranged THAC0 bonus and bonus 1/2 Attack per Round
      after Level 14: Each hit inflicts an extra 2 points of missile damage
      after Level 15: Additional -1 ranged THAC0 bonus and 1/2 Attack per round
Enhanced Called Shot HLA: Same as above, but with the additional effect of forcing the victim to Save vs. Breath Weapon with a +2 penalty or suffer the effects of Summon Insects for 2 rounds.

MYSTIC MARKSMAN's Called Shot:
      after Level 4: For the duration, the Mystic Marksman recieves a -1 bonus to ranged THAC0, but a +5 penalty to AC
      after Level 8: Upon each hit, the target must Save vs. Death with a -2 bonus or fall Unconscious for 3 seconds
      after Level 12: +2 bonus to missile damage
      after Level 16: Target must Save with a +2 penalty to avoid Unconsciousness
Enhanced Called Shot HLA: Same as above, but with the additional effect of a weakened Bolt of Glory spell: Each hit causes 1D4 Magic Damage to creatures of Elemental origin, 1D6 to those from the Prime Material, 3D4 to Undead, and 3D8 to Demons.

SNIPER's Called Shot:
      after Level 5: For the duration, the Sniper recieves a -1 bonus to ranged THAC0, but a +5 penalty to AC
      after Level 10: Each hit has a 10% chance of casting Invisibility on the Sniper for 10 seconds
      after Level 15: +2 bonus to missile damage
      after Level 20: Chance of Invisibility raised to 20%
Enhanced Called Shot HLA: Same as above, but with the additional effect of each hit having a 25% chance to cast Improved Invisibility on the Sniper for 10 seconds.

SPELLSHAFTER's Called Shot:
      after Level 5: For the duration, the Spellshafter recieves a -1 bonus to ranged THAC0, but a +5 penalty to AC
      after Level 10: Each hit inflicts a +1 penalty to the victim's Save vs. Spells for 3 rounds
      after Level 15: +2 bonus to missile damage
      after Level 20: Each hit lowers the victim's Magic Resistance by 5% for 3 rounds
Enhanced Called Shot HLA: Same as above, but adds a weakened version of the Flame Arrow spell to all shots fired/thrown: Each hit deals an additional 3D6 Fire (Save vs. Wands for half) and 1D6 Missile damage to the victim.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 12:09:10 PM by SixOfSpades »

Offline Galactygon

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Re: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2008, 03:21:38 PM »
I somehow feel that spell-like effects should best be left to spellcasters and would go with something more realistic, ie. a Sniper might have a chance to kill his target instead of turning improved invisible. Unless you can come up with a suitable explanation (a Sniper has connections with the planes or something).

-Galactygon

Offline strayshift

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Re: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2008, 03:52:56 PM »
The intention is to emulate a superb archers ability to hit a particular area to give additional effects - for me then there should be options kicking in at certain levels - NOT a set effect depending on level - perhaps weakness, slowing, bleeding, blinding, additional damage, death(?)
The difficulty I suppose is not to over power the class too much as  in BG1 the composite longbow is king and even in BG2 Kivan still ends up with a huge number of 'kills' and is one of the key fighters despite relatively poor hitpoints.
So beware the fact that the character will start with an addition attack over hand to hand fighters and that a composite longbows 1-6 +1 (2 in bg1) plus the weapon and the skill and the class bonuses can very quickly mean a 'machine-gun' of a character.
When I played BG1 I would develop Khalid with a bow and have Kivan and Coran in the party too - those three would massacre most enemies faced. In bg2 its toned down a bit - comp-longbows are weaker, there a fewer really good 'archers' and the monsters are tougher but you could still create a class that is far too powerful quite easily so the mod has to be really well judged/balanced in my view.
Good luck
G
« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 03:58:35 PM by strayshift »

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 02:07:56 PM »
I somehow feel that spell-like effects should best be left to spellcasters and would go with something more realistic, ie. a Sniper might have a chance to kill his target instead of turning improved invisible. Unless you can come up with a suitable explanation (a Sniper has connections with the planes or something).
The kit-specific effects are all related to what that class/kit can normally do: The Sniper's (Improved) Invisibility on hit is designed to simulate him concealing himself behind cover, firing, and ducking back down again before anyone could see him. Paladins cannot normally cast Bolt of Glory, but because it's an HLA I think it's ok for the Mystic Marksman to get a little extra divine punch at times. The one real exception is the Huntsman of Silvanus, whose temporarily-enhanced THAC0 and ApR have nothing whatsoever to do with being a Druid, I just felt that they could really use a brief escape from the "Only 1 base ApR despite being a Grandmaster, because you're not a Warrior class" and "Crappy THAC0, because Druids level up so damn slow" rules.
Fighters don't get Stun and Fear effects until they gain access to HLAs, though, so I think I'll tone down the Bowman a bit.


The intention is to emulate a superb archers ability to hit a particular area to give additional effects - for me then there should be options kicking in at certain levels - NOT a set effect depending on level - perhaps weakness, slowing, bleeding, blinding, additional damage, death(?)
This is quite true, if we're being realistic--but this is BG, where a character who's clinging to life by one feeble hitpoint can still do backflips while singing the national anthem. The effects of Slow and Bleeding damage might be good for the Bowman, though--I'll think about it. Blindness and instakill effects would be too powerful, and as you said, archer-like characters hardly need to be any stronger. I should add that my version of the Archer only gets bonuses to his ranged THAC0, not THAC0 & Damage like the original Archer, and gets them a bit more slowly, too.


As for the original quiestion/poll of this thread, I think I will leave Called Shot at its current duration of 2 rounds (the original duration was 10 seconds), and make the Enhanced Called Shots last for 3 rounds, as they are HLAs, after all.

Offline Galactygon

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Re: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2008, 10:36:49 AM »
Someone posted an interesting revelation about opcode 262. You will find it very interesting, and something like this would make a fine addition to your mod.

I am still at odds with the Sniper's "suddenly nonmagically turn invisible" thing. Maybe there could be alternatives?

-Galactygon

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Re: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2008, 05:31:03 PM »
What's the logic behind Archer shots causing Entanglement?

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2008, 10:37:12 AM »
What's the logic behind Archer shots causing Entanglement?
It is both plausible (Entangle is a Level 1 Druid spell, so Archers have easy access to it) and desirable, as it prevents the victim from closing to melee range. Note that I'm not implying that the arrow (or whatever projectile) is actually dragging the physical vines behind it--it is simply an extension of the Archer's will, and so a relatively simple ability like Entangle is able to ride piggyback.

The story is similar with the Sniper's (Improved) Invisibility, it mirrors something that the class could already do, even at low levels. Granted, the roleplay could be easily abused--my "approach stealthily, fire a shot, duck back under cover" story makes sense, but the ability could just as easily be used by a Sniper who got caught by the guards: "You can see me, so I can't drop back into Stealth and escape, but if I shoot you, maybe I'll disappear!" So there is definitely that flaw. But then again, Stealth itself is flawed, what with how you only need to be out of sight for a split second in order to vanish completely, after which you can dance around for hours in well-lit, perfectly bare rooms, surrounded by enemies, while remaining completely (yet somehow non-magically) invisible. So, truth be told, I'm not too concerned that the Sniper's Called Shot isn't entirely realistic. Granted, there may be better alternatives, and please do suggest any that seem plausible. When I first came up with the Sharpshooter (as it was called then), Andyr suggested adding Poison damage, but I decided against this as there are already a wealth of elemental-damage projectiles, and Poison is already the domain of the Assassin.

The Visual Range ploy is very interesting, thanks! I don't think it will really fit with the Sniper, though, as it would require him to deploy an invisible scout (a la a Wizard Eye or Familiar) to spot for him--either that or just start lobbing projectiles at enemies he can't even see yet, which of course makes no sense at all. Besides, shooting at targets that you cannot see is more of a Zen archery trick, so given the option, I'd like to save this for my future experiements with Monk kits.

Offline Galactygon

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Re: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 10:45:29 AM »
The story is similar with the Sniper's (Improved) Invisibility, it mirrors something that the class could already do, even at low levels. Granted, the roleplay could be easily abused--my "approach stealthily, fire a shot, duck back under cover" story makes sense, but the ability could just as easily be used by a Sniper who got caught by the guards: "You can see me, so I can't drop back into Stealth and escape, but if I shoot you, maybe I'll disappear!" So there is definitely that flaw. But then again, Stealth itself is flawed, what with how you only need to be out of sight for a split second in order to vanish completely, after which you can dance around for hours in well-lit, perfectly bare rooms, surrounded by enemies, while remaining completely (yet somehow non-magically) invisible. So, truth be told, I'm not too concerned that the Sniper's Called Shot isn't entirely realistic. Granted, there may be better alternatives, and please do suggest any that seem plausible. When I first came up with the Sharpshooter (as it was called then), Andyr suggested adding Poison damage, but I decided against this as there are already a wealth of elemental-damage projectiles, and Poison is already the domain of the Assassin.
What you could do (that would involve several .spl files) is prevent the Sniper from turning invisible if the enemies are standing right next to it. Because really, that is my qualm.

The Visual Range ploy is very interesting, thanks! I don't think it will really fit with the Sniper, though, as it would require him to deploy an invisible scout (a la a Wizard Eye or Familiar) to spot for him--either that or just start lobbing projectiles at enemies he can't even see yet, which of course makes no sense at all. Besides, shooting at targets that you cannot see is more of a Zen archery trick, so given the option, I'd like to save this for my future experiements with Monk kits.

Ah, but you can see enemies, hence you may target them with ranged weapons (the hardcoded limitation dictates that you have to see it before you shoot it). It looks very odd, but you do get to see creatures and their foot circles in the fog of war. I strongly suggest this.

-Galactygon

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Called Shot: What changes would you like to see?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 10:31:08 AM »
Well, I'll play with it, but if it looks crappy (even less realistic than disappearing from an enemy who's right in front of you), I'll have to drop it & go back to the original plan, or something else.

 

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