Author Topic: BETA 2 Download  (Read 24051 times)

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2006, 01:51:57 AM »
I'm done--I covered every square inch of the game except the Merchant League (because I sided with the Druids in Cloakwood 1) and Mendas's Balduran quest (because I hate it).

Stuff added in this latest update: Magic Resistance and "transparent walls" added to the list of Shit Six Would Like Changed, and the Chess Game bug removed--it appeared to have been only a one-time occurrence. Then again, UB does touch the Chess Game (Flamestrike scrolls), so it might still be worth looking at. I'm taking the Lothander bug off the list too--it sounds like a glitch unique to my system. But please remember it, in case it happens to anyone else.



Here's the master list of everything I've come across so far in my current game. As things change, I'll keep editing it & moving it to the bottom of this thread.
Quote
FIXED STUFF
Sarevok's Diary contains a typo in the 14th of Kythorn entry
Nashkel / Nashkell in Mysterious Vial quest
Corianna has an incorrect apostrophe
Aldeth's Blur ring is really creepy
Scar wants the wrong body
Scar takes the Ruby Ring at the wrong time
The three tents in The Wide all have no lights after dark
Flirting Rangers


TO-DO LIST
Name mixup in the Beregost manor: Gerard Travenhurst vs. Mr. Halimstad
Minor Dialogs: All 3 conversation options are given twice when talking to Bunsen
Minor Dialogs: No 'End Conversation' button (many instances in Gullykin)
Minor Dialogs: Farthendell's only line begins, "Again we meet."
Minor Dialogs: The "bad ass merchant" line in the Nashkel Fair does not open a store
Who is the leader of the Iron Throne? "They are led by Rieltar Costak."
Kagain would rather run to Silvershield Jr.'s body than attack enemies
Scrolls of Raise Dead cannot be targeted on dead party members
"Temple of Yondalla and Alvanhendar's Fine Wines" vs. "Temple of Helm"
Entar Silvershield sure doesn't have much to say, and it conflicts with what his Guards say
Feldane: "Three are from the Iron Throne" when there are only two
Smuggler looks kinda dumb when he leads you right to a Flaming Fist


FIX IN PROGRESS
Halfling Enforcers need to initiate conversation


NON-UB SHIT SIX WOULD LIKE CHANGED
Typo in FAI: "...the guards will be one you so fast..."
Massacring Thieves' Guild while Nalen is out results in 2 Biff the Understudies
Pickpocketing Duke Eltan can break (or at least really bend) the game
The Ghost Knights in the Firewine Dungeon sometimes sound like a hawk/eagle
Daital (the Ghost on Durlag's 3) uses the same soundset, meaning he cries like a hawk too
Undead Knight worth a piddling 65 EXP
Dilos & the Mercenaries worth a piddling 15 EXP
AR0018 (House in BG North): Containers offset of where they should be, 1 can't ever be opened
AR0108 (Ground floor of Duchal Palace): Another unopenable container
AR0512 (Durlag's -2): Trapped container does not turn red when Detected
Duplicate Necklaces of Missiles / Rings of Free Action?
Body weights--Why does Duke Eltan weigh only 100 pounds? Why is Chelak so heavy?
Various spelling & grammatical errors (even after the BaldurDash text fix!) in various Item Descriptions
Basilisk gaze checks Save vs. Death rather than Save vs. Petrification
Many beneficial spells still blocked by Magic Resistance
Transparent walls & closed doors in Durlag's -4 (AR0514)


TO DISCUSS
AR1900 (Bandit Camp) the right place for Ogre-Magi? How many of them?
Possibly move the farmer who complains about lake pollution, & Ted the hunter, to SW Peldvale
certain Permanent Corpses become non-permanent after they are known to have been seen
Should Marl have a weapon? Should it be visible?
Do useless items (unenchanted Bracers & Girdles) really belong in stores?
Is a Cloak+1 the best thing for Wilton to give?
Lothander's Boots
Cloak of the Shield in place of duplicate Cloak of Non-Detection?
Perhaps add Child's Body to the BG sewers


WTF?!?
Joia's quest sometimes resets the entire FAI map
Arkion's quest sometimes resets the map of the ground floor of his home
Cook in the 2nd level of the Cloakwood Mines gone
Laola Axehand spawn delayed
Can't initiate conversation with the Merchant in AR4908 (tent in Nashkel Fair)
STR affects melee ApR

Here are my thoughts on certain issues: I'm not doing this to keep hammering my point, just to keep them all together in a comprehensive list.

Temple of Yondalla & Alvenhendar's Fine Wines: It bugs me a bit that you can't actually buy wine here. Or, in fact, sleep in any indoor area in Gullykin, despite their renowned Halfling hospitality. And whenever I wander through there, I always seem to find myself wishing there was a place where I could sell off my excess gems/jewelry/etc. I know it's not really UB, but could we add a Tavern/Store to the basement of the Temple/Winery?

I'll work out some dialogue for Entar Silvershield when I have more free time. Ha! Unless somebody else does it first.

Feldane, an Old Friend: When talking about the guests staying in Candlekeep, he says "Three are from the Iron Throne, supposedly the leaders themselves." Except that there are only two, Rieltar and Brunos, since Sarevok is almost certainly heavily disguised (he certainly wouldn't claim allegiance with the Iron Throne) and not even Reiltar knows of his presence.

The guy who offers to smuggle the party across the Wyrm's Crossing bridge would be more believable if he didn't lead you right up to a Flaming Fist Mercenary (who, incidentally, has nothing to say). I would remove all FFist creatures from the area when you pay the guy to sneak you into town.

Any enterprising Thief would love the chance to thumb his nose at authority by Pickpocketing Duke Eltan. This garners the History of the Nether Scrolls. If the player has not yet cleared out the Iron Throne, this means that they'll take the book back to wherever their home base is, and hopefully remember to pick it back up again when they go talk to Eltan to get sent to Candlekeep. Or maybe they'll forget where they stashed it, or perhaps even sold it. Or they could even walk all the way back to Candlekeep and give the book to the Keeper of the Portal without even telling Duke Eltan about the Iron Throne--this would result in being in Candlekeep while still in Chapter Five, and from there start Chapter 7 without ever having been in Chapter 6, opening the endgame to a whole assload of bugs.
....OR we could simply move the History of the Nether Scrolls to a non-Pickpocketable slot, or similarly make it un-pickpocketable.

I would make the Undead Knight worth 480 EXP. It seems about right & it's divisible by 6.

Dilos, and the Mercenaries who guard the interior of the Flaming Fist compound in Chapter 7, are all worth 15 EXP per kill, which is absolutely pathetic, especially when you consider that they cast Hold Person and Glyph of Warding. I'd put them at 650 apiece.

I would put Shilo Chen's Ogre-Magi in the eastern half of Larswood. 3 or so Ogre-Magi, 3 Ogres & a Berserker, 2 Half-Ogres. Maybe a couple of Ogrillions, too--the whole family!

If feasible, I'd like the Permanent Corpses in the Crossroads map start to decay normally after the player clicks the "Info" cursor on the southern caravan. The body of the Silvershield's son becomes a skeleton, the other bodies disappear. Similarly, the body of the Halfling south of Beregost should start to decay after delivering Mirianne the letter.

One of Marl's lines, right before he attacks, is "sure you're tough with that blade hanging at your belt! Why don't you drop that armory you're carrying and we'll see how tough you are!" This seems pretty dang conclusive that he doesn't have any sort of weapon.

Having non-enchanted items like Girdles & Bracers does make for good roleplay, but I just don't see the point in putting them in Stores when one could just as easily find them in other situations: Loot on slain enemies, on recruitable NPCs, in containers, etc.
Then again, nobody has ever bought an unenchanted Short Sword either. . . . but at least those can be used for something.

Farmer Wilton: I can't really picture somebody hanging a Cloak over a fireplace. It's big, gathers a lot of dust, and even with the +1 enchantment, it's probably flammable. I'd like to suggest a Heavy Crossbow+1 instead. They're pretty rare in-game, fit the situation, and Crossbows & Bolts are really neglected in BG1.

The Descriptions on the Ring of Free Action and the Necklace of Missiles clearly state a specific origin and user, indicating both items are unique, so it's always bothered me that you can easily obtain duplicates of them. The Ring can be looted at the top of the Iron Throne tower in Chapter 5, and pickpocketed/looted from Dushai in Ulgoth's Beard. The Necklace can be bought from a Merchant in the Nashkel Fair and another in the Elfsong Tavern (careful, they might use the same .STO file), and earned (& possibly pickpocketed) as a quest reward from Nadine.

Giving Lothander Boots of Stealth would bring the in-game total up to 4, which I think is rather high. And considering that the only times the player could get them (without breaking the Poison quest and thus killing themselves) are a 3-second interval in BG northeast, a 3-second interval in BG Central, and another 2-second interval in the Blade & Stars, so it hardly seems relevant to give him any special inventory at all.

I have similar issues with the Cloak(s) of Non-Detection; its Description implies, but does not state, that it's unique. Ordulinian giving you a Cloak of Protection+1 might be better.

I'd like to switch the weights of Duke Eltan's Body and Chelak's Body. Chelak weighs about 160 pounds--good thing you don't have to carry him very far (in fact, you don't even need to carry him at all, unless you're soloing). But Duke Eltan weighs only 100 pounds--granted, he's been sick with a wasting illness for a few days, but still, that's one emaciated Duke. Switching them makes more sense: Chelak was killed by Spiders who sucked all the fluids from his body (yum!), leaving him a husk, and Duke Eltan is nicely well-fed.

If you've nothing better to do (yeah right), it might be nice to add a Child's Body to the dead residents of the BG Sewers, also acceptable by Arkion.

The Nashkel Fair merchant that usually sells magical jewelry (including the Necklace of Missiles) is unusually taciturn in my current game--Mousing over him gives the "Talk" pointer, but clicking it does nothing: the selected party member will neither walk up to the Merchant, nor initiate conversation when close by. I'm guessing that this Merchant has been given some sort of instruction that he can't obey (such as walking to a point that can't be walked upon), and thus generates an "X appears busy" loop.

Desmond is a Level 9 Human Thief with 17 STR and the Dagger of Venom. He has 1 ApR, as you might expect. But when he used the Manual of Gainful Exercise, and is still holding the Dagger, his ApR went up to 2. What's even weirder is that the effect is not permanent--it wore off after a couple of days, or perhaps it was Reloading that erased it. Trippy.

I have no access to a Monster Manual, so it might very well be canon that Basilisk gaze can be negated with a Save vs. Death, rather than Petrification. But in my own opinion, having a Petrify attack that doesn't use the Petrify Save is just silly.

A Trapped container on Durlag's -2 (AR0512) does not turn red upon being Detected--I doubt this was intentional, as it's one of 4 identical containers, and all the others Detect normally. Mouse position of the faulty container is (centered on) 282, 1029.

Many friendly spells (including Healing) are subject to being blocked by Magic Resistance; I was under the impression that BaldurDash corrected this, or at the very least, since BioWare themselves changed their minds about the matter for BG2, a strong argument can easily be made that the change should be made retroactive to BG1.

Durlag's Tower -4 (the level just before the demonknight) has at least 2 walls and closed doors that do not block sightlines; they were apparently assigned the "bottomless pit" value instead of the "wall" value. On a related note, in Cloakwood Mines -3 (the level right before Davaeorn), there is a good-sized well or similar big round shaft leading downwards, that was described as a "wall" when it should be a "bottomless pit."

Offline Echon

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #76 on: June 12, 2006, 05:54:54 AM »
Basilisk gaze checks Save vs. Death rather than Save vs. Petrification

The Petrification effect requires a save vs. petrification/polymorph. There is also a Lightning Effects effect and a Hold Creature effect, these require a save vs. death/poison. No, I do not have any idea why they want two different saves.

Quote
STR affects melee ApR

Could you describe this in greater detail? I am wondering how it is even possible.

-Echon

Offline SimDing0

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2006, 07:19:56 AM »
Many friendly spells (including Healing) are subject to being blocked by Magic Resistance; I was under the impression that BaldurDash corrected this, or at the very least, since BioWare themselves changed their minds about the matter for BG2, a strong argument can easily be made that the change should be made retroactive to BG1.
Viconia's BG1 biography notes, I believe, that magic resistance is both a blessing and a curse. The implication is immediate.

Offline Salk

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2006, 12:35:55 AM »
Yes, the biography of Viconia should be corrected as friendly spells should bypass resistance...

Offline SimDing0

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2006, 05:21:41 AM »
k

Offline devSin

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2006, 06:28:42 AM »
Yes, the biography of Viconia should be corrected as friendly spells should bypass resistance...
As long as I have any say whatsoever, there will be no changes to the behavior of magic resistance in UB, sorry.

Offline Salk

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #81 on: June 13, 2006, 11:31:02 AM »
Yes, the biography of Viconia should be corrected as friendly spells should bypass resistance...
As long as I have any say whatsoever, there will be no changes to the behavior of magic resistance in UB, sorry.

Didn't mean tp say that UB should take care of this...I think it's more a Fixpack problem.  ;) However I am curious about why you'd not want such a change since the bypass magic resistance for friendly spells is a well known AD&D rule...

Offline icelus

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2006, 11:57:10 AM »
I think it's a case where a D&D rule doesn't really make sense...
<Moongaze> Luckily BWL has a very understanding and friendly admin.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2006, 01:19:46 PM »
Basilisk gaze checks Save vs. Death rather than Save vs. Petrification

The Petrification effect requires a save vs. petrification/polymorph. There is also a Lightning Effects effect and a Hold Creature effect, these require a save vs. death/poison. No, I do not have any idea why they want two different saves.
With the Helm, Cloak, and Ring, it's possible to get Kagain's Save vs. Death down to 0 or 1, while his Save vs. Petrify/Polymorph is about 4 or 5. Now send him wandering around the Basilisk map: He can stare them in the eye until the cows come home and not feel a thing, and every time he does so, the text box will say that he's made his Save vs. Death. Save vs. Petrify/Polymorph is never mentioned. And of course, no anti-Petrification spells or scrolls are required.


Quote
Quote
STR affects melee ApR
Could you describe this in greater detail? I am wondering how it is even possible.
I believe the Manual of Gainful Exercise has an undocumented +1 bonus to ApR, with a duration of 3 days or so. Only problem is, it only affected Desmond's melee ApR. I archived the Save, but I still don't understand precisely what happened, or why.

Offline Echon

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2006, 02:25:18 PM »
With the Helm, Cloak, and Ring, it's possible to get Kagain's Save vs. Death down to 0 or 1, while his Save vs. Petrify/Polymorph is about 4 or 5. Now send him wandering around the Basilisk map: He can stare them in the eye until the cows come home and not feel a thing, and every time he does so, the text box will say that he's made his Save vs. Death. Save vs. Petrify/Polymorph is never mentioned. And of course, no anti-Petrification spells or scrolls are required.

Nevermind.

Quote
I believe the Manual of Gainful Exercise has an undocumented +1 bonus to ApR, with a duration of 3 days or so. Only problem is, it only affected Desmond's melee ApR. I archived the Save, but I still don't understand precisely what happened, or why.

It is certainly undocumented. There is nothing there beyond the Strength +1 effect.

-Echon
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 03:42:20 PM by Echon »

Offline devSin

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2006, 03:28:49 PM »
Yes, the biography of Viconia should be corrected as friendly spells should bypass resistance...
As long as I have any say whatsoever, there will be no changes to the behavior of magic resistance in UB, sorry.

Didn't mean tp say that UB should take care of this...I think it's more a Fixpack problem. ;) However I am curious about why you'd not want such a change since the bypass magic resistance for friendly spells is a well known AD&D rule...
It had been discussed to death in its heyday, and it was absolutely intentional. The designers felt is was the right decision, and the game was designed to account for the decision.

I think Dudleyville changes this for all the spells, so you can install those spell changes if you'd enjoy the different behavior more.

Offline devSin

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2006, 03:34:32 PM »
With the Helm, Cloak, and Ring, it's possible to get Kagain's Save vs. Death down to 0 or 1, while his Save vs. Petrify/Polymorph is about 4 or 5. Now send him wandering around the Basilisk map: He can stare them in the eye until the cows come home and not feel a thing, and every time he does so, the text box will say that he's made his Save vs. Death. Save vs. Petrify/Polymorph is never mentioned. And of course, no anti-Petrification spells or scrolls are required.
The effects all save vs. death by default, yes. As an interesting note, the hold effect does nothing, and will stay on the CRE file forever (one for each time you got hit and didn't save or get petrified).


I believe the Manual of Gainful Exercise has an undocumented +1 bonus to ApR, with a duration of 3 days or so. Only problem is, it only affected Desmond's melee ApR. I archived the Save, but I still don't understand precisely what happened, or why.
This must have been a mod conflict, or just some random quirk. The tome only raises Strength by 1 permanently; it has no other worthwhile effects.

Offline Echon

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2006, 03:41:46 PM »
The effects all save vs. death by default, yes.

Whoops. Looks like you, and Six, are right. I forgot to pay attention to whether I using the FotD install or the normal install. I have some gaze attack saves to correct now.

-Echon

Offline devSin

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2006, 03:58:58 PM »
The effects all save vs. death by default, yes.

Whoops. Looks like you, and Six, are right. I forgot to pay attention to whether I using the FotD install or the normal install. I have some gaze attack saves to correct now.

-Echon
Yeah, I had to ignore overrides when looking, since I have no idea how I change things anymore (I know I delete the hold effect, but who knows what else). I usually wouldn't bother, but y'all found me in a good mood, I guess.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2006, 10:16:38 PM »
Regarding Magic Resistance: There are 2 ways of looking at it, each with their own internal debates.

One centers on whether Magic Resistance is something innate and involuntary, a sphere of influence in which all magic fails to exist, or something that can be raised and lowered to block harmful effects while allowing the beneficial enchantments to pass through. No matter which, there's one great big whopping inconsistency about blocking spells, (though not all spells, I noticed Defensive Hamony works just fine) but not potions. Me, I say it should be all or nothing--if a creature's 100% MR means that Cure Light Wounds fails on them, then a Healing Potion should fail as well. And a Restoration spell. And a Raise Dead spell. And they can't cast any spells of their own, either. I do not expect to see any big fans of this system.

The other way is centered on which version of the D&D rules we want to work with. I assume BG1 is 2.0 and BG2 is 2.5, with some aspects borrowed from 3.0? Something like that. Regardless, it seems laughably old-fashioned to cling to a ruleset which the game's own originators have long since abandoned, particularly if we're going to be consistent with BG2. Do you really foresee Magic Resistance blocking friendly spells in BG1 / ToSC, but not blocking them in Tutu?

. . . . . . .

About the Tome of Gainful Exercise / melee ApR thing, I'm stumped. I know it's not a mod conflict, as the only mod installed was UB, and I know it wasn't a one-time thing, because it's reproducible. I've got no clue as to what the heck caused it, all I know is that my ApR went up, with the very same weapon, without gaining a level, or anything more unusual than the Tome of STR and a Tome of WIS. Beats me.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #90 on: June 14, 2006, 02:35:40 AM »
One centers on whether Magic Resistance is something innate and involuntary, a sphere of influence in which all magic fails to exist, or something that can be raised and lowered to block harmful effects while allowing the beneficial enchantments to pass through. No matter which, there's one great big whopping inconsistency about blocking spells, (though not all spells, I noticed Defensive Hamony works just fine) but not potions. Me, I say it should be all or nothing--if a creature's 100% MR means that Cure Light Wounds fails on them, then a Healing Potion should fail as well. And a Restoration spell. And a Raise Dead spell. And they can't cast any spells of their own, either. I do not expect to see any big fans of this system.
The current system is that you can cast spells on yourself--Mirror Image never fails, for example, and I'd be upset if it did, yes--and use potions, but somebody else casting spells on you is subject to MR. I believe the principle here is solid: it makes you think twice about simply loading people with immunity items, and the last thing I want is for BG1 to turn into a ToB affair where victory depends on how much crap you can gain immunity to. Viconia + Cloak of Balduran is, what, 75% MR? Being able to gain this much is lame within the BG1 setting anyway. Let's not heighten it by removing the drawback.

Quote
The other way is centered on which version of the D&D rules we want to work with. I assume BG1 is 2.0 and BG2 is 2.5, with some aspects borrowed from 3.0? Something like that. Regardless, it seems laughably old-fashioned to cling to a ruleset which the game's own originators have long since abandoned, particularly if we're going to be consistent with BG2. Do you really foresee Magic Resistance blocking friendly spells in BG1 / ToSC, but not blocking them in Tutu?
I favour the addition of an option to Tutu to restore BG1's handling of MR.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #91 on: June 14, 2006, 08:41:49 PM »
The current system is that you can cast spells on yourself, and use potions, but somebody else casting spells on you is subject to MR.
Can you suggest a way of letting the engine tell the difference between a Cure Light Wounds that you cast on yourself, and a CLW cast on you by someone else? And personally, I would class drinking a potion as being equivalent to a spell cast by an outside source.

Quote
... the last thing I want is for BG1 to turn into a ToB affair where victory depends on how much crap you can gain immunity to.
Understood, but I should point out that BG1 is a Fighter's game, not a Mage's. In my experience, Magic Resistance hardly matters: Read the boards and see how many people suggest dealing with, for example, the Sirines, by "giving Viconia the Cloak of Balduran or a Potion of Magic Blocking and having them waste their spells." No, it's usually things like "Shoot them and disrupt their casting," or "have somebody drink a Potion of Clarity," or "Backstab them with the Boots of Speed," or something.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #92 on: June 15, 2006, 09:39:51 AM »
Can you suggest a way of letting the engine tell the difference between a Cure Light Wounds that you cast on yourself, and a CLW cast on you by someone else?
I'm not quite sure what you're thinking. I'm fairly sure the engine's default behaviour is that you ignore your own MR but not other people's; so Cure Light Wounds can fail if Yeslick casts it on Viconia, but not if she casts it on herself. Or are you asking whether we can alter this behaviour, in which case the answer is "the way you're hoping for, yes, but I doubt we could make people subject to their own MR if for some reason we wanted to".

Offline Echon

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #93 on: June 15, 2006, 11:24:45 AM »
I'm not quite sure what you're thinking. I'm fairly sure the engine's default behaviour is that you ignore your own MR[...]

Yes, I also believe this is how it works.

-Echon

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: BETA 2 Download
« Reply #94 on: June 15, 2006, 09:19:20 PM »
I'm fairly sure the engine's default behaviour is that you ignore your own MR but not other people's
Well, I'll be jiggered! You're right. Well, if you can make the behavior consistent across all spells (CLW cast by somebody else gets blocked, then so does Defensive Harmony), then I have no problem with it. True, there'll still be that gapin inconsistency between BG1 and BG2, but I appear to be outvoted on that issue, so I won't press the point.

 

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