Author Topic: Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls  (Read 17344 times)

Offline Joe

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2005, 03:34:47 AM »
No, you are not free to speak your dirty dreams aloud

I could if I had such dreams, but I do not and any discussion of that is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have not made any advances towards irenicus, I have only made the observation that it is inappropriate for a fourteen year-old girl to display her breasts over the internet.

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You tell the judge

Tell which judge what? And why should I be talking to a judge?

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  Learn English, mister. America is she

America is actually it.

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  So, shall I wait for your PM... for starters

I'm not sure I understand your meaning...

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  You started insulting Irene. It also insults me

I simply made an observation. Are you going to argue that it is appropriate for young teenage girls to show pictures of themselves over the internet wearing only their undergarments, displaying prominently their breasts?

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  Plain English, mister. Tramp = prostitute

As is the case with many other words, tramp does not only stand for a single other word or phrase or idea. Tramp can also be defined as a loose woman.

Offline Borsook

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2005, 03:35:47 AM »
Lu, you've got Borsook on the back foot there.  He doesn't want to say he thinks it's a bad idea, but he appears uncomfortable.  Let him off the hook.
No, I am not uncomfortable, simply meant that the choice of the avatar may result in an number of people saying silly things (like Joe here) nothing more. And I did not want to say how I find it because it is not relevant to the point, which is that Irenicus has every right to do it.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2005, 03:40:33 AM »
irenicus has every right to have a picture of herself in her bikini top if she wants.

I never said otherwise. I have the right to walk down the street and proclaim proudly to the world that old ladies ought to be kicked down flights of stairs. You have the right to call me an asshole for it and fly a bird my way.


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However, this isn't an overtly sexual image. Joe is just being a bully (yes you are, shame on you) and judging her for celebrating her prettiness and (horror) sexuality.

She is fourteen years old. She is a child. The internet is the last place for children to be displaying their sexuality, overt or not. Whether or not children should be displaying their sexuality at all is another matter.


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How does having a picture of herself looking pretty make her a tramp or a slut or anything else?

I said "act as" not "is".

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I have concerns that irenicus' new avatar isn't a good idea, because she is young, and may attract unwanted attention/sleazy stuff she may not have anticipated - but not because Joe or other ignorant and rude put-down artists are going to call her names. It's a sad fact that sickos do prey on young people on the Net, and I wouldn't like irenicus to be unsafe in cyberspace.

Why, for Gollum's sake, do you think I would have a problem with such an avatar if not for the very reasons you have listed?

Offline Borsook

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2005, 03:41:40 AM »
I could if I had such dreams, but I do not and any discussion of that is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have not made any advances towards irenicus, I have only made the observation that it is inappropriate for a fourteen year-old girl to display her breasts over the internet.
But she did not display her breasts. She showed her bra. If she were a man and showed a bare chest would you still find it inappropriate? It did seem as if your imagination was concentrating too much on what is under that bra. And is it not inappropriate to compare a person to a slut because she is not ashamed of the way she looks? On hot summer days I do not wear a t-shirt and do not think it makes me a "loose man".
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Offline Jenn

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2005, 03:44:09 AM »
Joe is just being a bully (yes you are, shame on you) and judging her for celebrating her prettiness and (horror) sexuality. How does having a picture of herself looking pretty make her a tramp or a slut or anything else?

Since when is it simply 'pretty' for a 14 year old to show a picture of her breasts on the internet? If she simply wanted to celebrate her supposed prettiness and show it off she would have a nice picture of her face or something similar. What she wants is to show her body off and get attention from people, otherwise she wouldn't be emphasizing her breats. It is sad that a 14 year old is out there showing herself off in that way. I wonder why her parents aren't more attentive to her behavior...

Oh, and how can you be ok with a 14 year old or any other child 'celebrating' her sexuality? She is ONLY 14. She shouldn't be worrying about her sexuality or showing off her breasts to hundreds of forum members and possible pedos out there.

EDIT: That she had a bra on doesn't make it any better, she is still trying to emphasize them. I am sure she knew she couldn't plainly be obscene.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2005, 03:49:50 AM by Jenn »

Offline Borsook

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2005, 03:44:31 AM »
I have the right to walk down the street and proclaim proudly to the world that old ladies ought to be kicked down flights of stairs.
No You do not. Such an action may be seen as an attempt to convince others to the use of violence, not to mention being offensive to old people and both actions are (well, in most countries at least) against the law.
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Offline Lu

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2005, 03:46:31 AM »
   Eral dear, I already said
 "You are a real gentleman, Borsook. Irene and I accept your apology"
   Please tell me if it's not what you mean

   Well, if you think that Irene did smth wrong, then I know that both she and I have to reconside smth about it. But anyway, it's just details of lesser significance, I hope you agree with me

   That's what first come into mind

 PS. But I still like the picture

Offline Borsook

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2005, 03:48:02 AM »
Oh, and how can you be ok with a 14 year old celebrating her sexuality? She is ONLY 14.
As a side note - to my great suprise I have recently learned that in some European countries it is legal for a 14 year old person to have a sexual intercourse.
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Offline Jenn

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2005, 03:55:31 AM »
I have concerns that irenicus' new avatar isn't a good idea, because she is young, and may attract unwanted attention/sleazy stuff she may not have anticipated - but not because Joe or other ignorant and rude put-down artists are going to call her names. It's a sad fact that sickos do prey on young people on the Net, and I wouldn't like irenicus to be unsafe in cyberspace. (Being a nosy over-bearing sort of person, I PM'ed her this morning about it.)

I think she wants attention different than the kind she would get from simply posting a picture of her pretty face.

I also think that is the point people are trying to make. Children shouldn't be displaying their bodies in such a fashion anywhere and much less in a dangerous place like the Internet. Anyone here see the Dateline special on Internet predators?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2005, 03:58:57 AM by Jenn »

Offline Joe

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2005, 03:57:03 AM »
But she did not display her breasts. She showed her bra.

She doesn't have to be naked to display her breasts--women do it all the time by wearing tight shirts and/or shirts with low necklines. Cleavage, etc.

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If she were a man and showed a bare chest would you still find it inappropriate?

Are you honestly going to base an argument on the idea that a man's chest and a woman's chest are exactly the same when viewed by society?

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And is it not inappropriate to compare a person to a slut because she is not ashamed of the way she looks?

Not being ashamed of one's looks is inside a person's head. Dressing provacatively or showing off one's body completely different.

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On hot summer days I do not wear a t-shirt and do not think it makes me a "loose man".

Do you ever walk around with your dick hanging out? Would it be appropriate for any of us males, 14 or no, to have avatars of our balls? Hopefully your answer to those questions is, "no". If it isn't, please don't bother with an answer.

No You do not. Such an action may be seen as an attempt to convince others to the use of violence, not to mention being offensive to old people and both actions are (well, in most countries at least) against the law.

In the United States I would not be breaking the law unless I was actually telling people to commit violent acts against others. Whether or not this is the case in most countries does not matter because America was clearly the context being used.

As a side note - to my great suprise I have recently learned that in some European countries it is legal for a 14 year old person to have a sexual intercourse.

I wouldn't call that a good thing.

Offline Eral

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2005, 04:00:01 AM »
Joe, don't nest quote me, and then misrepresent my words and yours, because I am REALLY over that. Don't try your usual meaningless semantic nit-picking, because you have gone right over the line. You spoke inappropriately. You were rude.  End of story. All you need to do now is apologise.

Borsook, Lu, I would really like to end this conversation now. I am extremely upset that Joe has chosen to express himself so inappropriately -and that he has done so in the Merry Christmas thread  makes it worse, somehow. I would be very grateful if you could ignore his inevitable following post where he re-spouts all the ugly things he has already said once. (I see I'm too late.) We could start another thread and call it Double Standards - the Double Bind, and try to discuss the matter there. I would have to wait a little while until I'm not so angry.
If you see anything mysterious or unusual, just enjoy it while you can.  - Michael Leunig.

Offline Borsook

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2005, 04:05:43 AM »
She doesn't have to be naked to display her breasts--women do it all the time by wearing tight shirts and/or shirts with low necklines. Cleavage, etc.
And what is wrong in that? You can always live in a monastery if you mind the sight of a woman in a tight shirt that much.

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Are you honestly going to base an argument on the idea that a man's chest and a woman's chest are exactly the same when viewed by society?
I'm basing my argument on that the view you represent is sexist.

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Do you ever walk around with your dick hanging out? Would it be appropriate for any of us males, 14 or no, to have avatars of our balls? Hopefully your answer to those questions is, "no". If it isn't, please don't bother with an answer.
I'm sorry, the last time I've seen the said picture there was no vagina on it.

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In the United States I would not be breaking the law unless I was actually telling people to commit violent acts against others. Whether or not this is the case in most countries does not matter because America was clearly the context being used.
I'm sure from my knowledge of the US law, little as it may be, that an old lady who heard you saying that could sue you and would have a pretty good chances in the court.

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I wouldn't call that a good thing.
I am not saying it is a good thing, just stating a fact.
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Offline Joe

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Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2005, 04:08:29 AM »
Continuing the discussion from the Merry Christmas thread:

Joe, don't nest quote me, and then misrepresent my words and yours, because I am REALLY over that.

I don't even know what nest-quoting is. Please indcate just hwo I have misrepresented your words. And I'd still like you to address these items:
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She is fourteen years old. She is a child. The internet is the last place for children to be displaying their sexuality, overt or not. Whether or not children should be displaying their sexuality at all is another matter.


Eral:
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I have concerns that irenicus' new avatar isn't a good idea, because she is young, and may attract unwanted attention/sleazy stuff she may not have anticipated - but not because Joe or other ignorant and rude put-down artists are going to call her names. It's a sad fact that sickos do prey on young people on the Net, and I wouldn't like irenicus to be unsafe in cyberspace.

Me:
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Why, for Gollum's sake, do you think I would have a problem with such an avatar if not for the very reasons you have listed?

Offline Jenn

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2005, 04:10:00 AM »

I'm sure from my knowledge of the US law, little as it may be, that an old lady who heard you saying that could sue you and would have a pretty good chances in the court.

On what basis?

Offline Eral

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2005, 04:13:36 AM »
Joe has started up a new thread. How about moving there?
If you see anything mysterious or unusual, just enjoy it while you can.  - Michael Leunig.

Offline Joe

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Re: Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2005, 04:15:30 AM »
And what is wrong in that? You can always live in a monastery if you mind the sight of a woman in a tight shirt that much.

I don't worry for my own good. I think it is just a sad sign of our society's priorities. But provocatively dressed women is not the issue at hand here. The issue is whether or not it is appropriate for a girl fourteen years young to show pictures of herself wearing only a bra over the internet.

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I'm basing my argument on that the view you represent is sexist.

It is not sexist. A woman's breasts play a far different role than a man's chest as far as sexuality is concerned.

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I'm sorry, the last time I've seen the said picture there was no vagina on it.

But you talked about your bare chest, an exposed body part. Why then, if we ought to see the chests of man and woman to be the same, should she not be able to show her own bare chest?

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I'm sure from my knowledge of the US law, little as it may be, that an old lady who heard you saying that could sue you and would have a pretty good chances in the court.

Your knowledge of speech laws in the United States is indeed thin.

Offline Borsook

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2005, 04:15:59 AM »

I'm sure from my knowledge of the US law, little as it may be, that an old lady who heard you saying that could sue you and would have a pretty good chances in the court.

On what basis?

Are you honestly saying that telling other person "you should be kicked from the stairs" can not be classified as a threat?
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Offline Joe

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Re: Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2005, 04:17:38 AM »
Are you honestly saying that telling other person "you should be kicked from the stairs" can not be classified as a threat?

"You should be kicked down the stairs" is not the same as "I'm going to kick you down the stairs" or telling others to do so. Our speech laws are extremely liberal.

Offline Lu

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Re: Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2005, 04:18:01 AM »
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Why, for Gollum's sake, do you think I would have a problem with such an avatar if not for the
 very reasons you have listed
 Eral has the right to judge it, sure enough. You have not

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As is the case with many other words, tramp does not only stand for a single other word or phrase or idea. Tramp can also be defined as a loose woman
 Coward

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I said "act as" not "is"
 Stupid is as stupid does
  Harlot is as harlot does
  Coward

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America is actually it
 I can only repeat, learn English. Not to only be able to pronounce words, but to understand smth, if simple phrases only

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I'm not sure I understand your meaning...
 Forgive me, I am very silly. Did you say what you said when you said nothing but "      "?
  It somehow echoed my mentioning topless pictures of mine. Yes, Joe, I do have them. Naked, too. So what? I'm 29 yo
 If you desparately need to call someone a slut, prostitute, whore, tramp, ho, strumpet, whatever, feel free to remember me. But dare not confuse Irene with you dirty words
  You made me speak words nobody wants to hear, Joe
  Shame on me. But first of all, shame on you


jester@hisparents

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2005, 04:22:07 AM »
Give me a B. Give me an O. Give me a RING. What does it all mean?

 Sometimes we deviate towards the exciting, sometimes we are not really. It is time to wake up an smell the difference.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from Tyrol (buried under lots of snow) for those concerned. Slainté/Prost/cheers  and whatever to all the others.

Offline Lu

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Re: Merry Christmas
« Reply #45 on: December 26, 2005, 04:26:08 AM »
   Eral dear, have I answered you? I hate myself. I wanted to save Irene from this stuff, but instead I upset you

Offline Joe

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Re: Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls
« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2005, 04:28:48 AM »
  Eral has the right to judge it, sure enough. You have not

How have you come to this conclusion?

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Coward

Why do you insist on calling me a coward? What have I done that is cowardly?

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  Stupid is as stupid does
  Harlot is as harlot does
  Coward

I'm sorry but you make very little sense.

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  I can only repeat, learn English. Not to only be able to pronounce words, but to understand smth, if simple phrases only

The word America, referring to a country or region and therefore possessing no gender, can only technically be referred to as "it", not "he" or "she".

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Did you say what you said when you said nothing but "      "?

 ???

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It somehow echoed my mentioning topless pictures of mine. Yes, Joe, I do have them. Naked, too.

I don't care.

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So what? I'm 29 yo

Yes, you're twenty-nine and have thus far refrained from choosing any of them for your avatar. None of this is relevant to the discussion. Are you fourteen? Have you chosen to do as irenicus has? No, you have not.

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If you desparately need to call someone a slut, prostitute, whore, tramp, ho, strumpet, whatever, feel free to remember me.

I have no desperate need to insult people. I have only made an observation.

Offline Jenn

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Re: Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls
« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2005, 04:36:10 AM »

I'm sure from my knowledge of the US law, little as it may be, that an old lady who heard you saying that could sue you and would have a pretty good chances in the court.

On what basis?

Are you honestly saying that telling other person "you should be kicked from the stairs" can not be classified as a threat?

There is a *tiny* detail you are not very familiar with: the 1st amendment. He said, "I have the right to walk down the street and proclaim proudly to the world that old ladies ought to be kicked down flights of stairs." That is not a personal threat, it is a general statement. That one old person would hear it as he walked down the street would not constitute a threat. It is called free speech. It is just like when KKK members hold a rally and say, "niggers should be kicked because they are inferior." It is simply what they believe. Unless they actually hurt a black person or incite others to do it and it is highly possible that violence would result from it, it would not be a successful case. There has to be a reasonably possible and clearly directed threat. It is a similar case for statements like, "the American Government should be overthrown." Unless there is a strong possibility and danger that the person or group saying it will do such a thing, it is considered free speech. There have been tests made by the Supreme Court in order to address this isue.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2005, 04:47:26 AM by Jenn »

Offline irenicus

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Re: Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls
« Reply #48 on: December 26, 2005, 04:43:58 AM »
HAPPY NOW?  jesus louise! people it is my choice what I do in life and in fact my mother TOOK that photo for a christmas laugh, and i even TOLD her i would put it on here and she because it was soo small it was fine but thats not the point

if you have a problem you talk to that person adultly! dont be a little tell-tell-twit and grasp attention   so next time talk to me if theres a problem

ahh your all good people so i wont hit you this time -pats heads- but allll of you only ONE of you actually imed me and spoke to me about it! so please people dont talk behind backs its incredibly rude -  but thanks for... concern.... i suppppoose


Offline Joe

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Re: Internet sexuality and 14 year-old girls
« Reply #49 on: December 26, 2005, 04:43:58 AM »
-pats joes head- HAPPY NOW?!  jesus louise! people it is my choice what I do in life

No one said you cannot do as you wish.

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if you have a problem you talk to that person adultly!

I did speak to you "adultly".

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ahh your a good person so i wont hit you this time -pats head- but allll of you only ONE of you actually imed me and spoke to me about it! so please people dont talk behind backs its incredibly rude

I asked you quite openly about your avatar.