Bioware admit their lousy stories(kinda)

[Marauder]

"Tired of the Bioware stories?

Write your own store example and get the chance to write for Bioware"

http://www.bioware.com/biozone/articles/2005_11_30_WritingContest/index.html

Might be something good for you fanfiction-people.

[Loriel]

Too bad for us Mac-users.  No toolset.

[Eral]

It's certainly an interesting way of recruiting new talent. It does seem to suggest they don't think they have anybody already on the team who is able to write a good story.
*laughs bitterly*

[jcompton]

Nah, they're just flush with cash and hiring.

[grayjo]

I have always respected the stories that come out of Bioware, most of my favorite games are from Bio, and to me the story is the most important factor in a game.

edit: spelling

[Eral]

I am still preoccupied with my disappointment with NWN - I felt it was nowhere near as good as the story in BG2. Hell, it wasn't as good as the story in TOB.

[Muerte]

At least they redeemed themselves in Knights of the Old Republic. Great game.

[CoM_Solaufein]

NWN was fine. It was a decent enough story.

[Marauder]

NWN was fine. It was a decent enough story.

The basic story was almost decent, but the way it was implemented was rather simple. Every chapter had the feeling of "You need to find 4 items. There are four places to go. North, south, east, west, nice and easy to remember..." It was the same damn thing all the way through! I got dumber just thinking about it! Dammit!!!

Ranting over, thank you for your cooperation...

[Bex]

I found some of the quests towards the end particularly insulting to my intelligence. "Just in case you missed this clue, we're going to make every guy in this level drop the same note."

But maybe, if they expected their audience to get progressively stupider from playing the game, that explains it.

[Muerte]

Fed Ex quests! You can never have too many of those.

[Eral]

*thinks about how best to respond to Melkor without resorting to over-use of capitals and the shocked and rolling eye smilies*

SPOILERS BELOW.


Hmm. While I did like some of the individual chapters,(I'm with Muerte on side-quests): the overall story made me feel that someone was moving the goal posts. I have found the cure for the plague, and the king is back on deck, but it might have been better if I didn't because he has no helpful contribution to make. I have removed the traitor and established Fenthick's innocence but that doesn't matter because the king decides to ignore everything I have found out. I convince Aribeth to surrender but apparently she wasn't that important to the evil army and I need to go and get the Really Bad guy. I have defeated the Really Bad guy using the simple expedient of hacking at him until he falls down when I am magically spirited away to an unknown destination. This was not nearly as logical or as satisfying as the progression in Find and Kill Sarevok, and Find and Kill Irenicus.

Then, there were individual elements in the story that I felt were, umm, weak. All of the Masters in the Academy getting killed by goblins who appear to be quite easy to overcome if you hit them. Whats'isname Fenthick getting the blame from the king when the poisoner had him fooled as well. Aribeth getting up the next morning after Fenthick gets the chop to go lead the evil armies. The suggestion that the king might forgive her for totally betraying the country because she was peeved. The "romance" where you get to ask a polite question every chapter. The completely unfinished final chapter, where you never find out what happens to everybody in the end. Barrel smashing. Objects belonging to all the henchmen being found as a part of the main quest, no sub- quest required. And these are just the things that were wrong with the story.

_{I admit that it would have been quicker to just say WHAT??   but sometimes it's nice to trot out your sense of grievance and give it an airing.}

[Exodus]

Pity none of you are asking or even considering: -

Are any of your issues addressed in the expansion packs?

[Lu]

I am still preoccupied with my disappointment with NWN - I felt it was nowhere near as good as the story in BG2. Hell, it wasn't as good as the story in TOB

   Just not as good as the story in TOB? TOB's a masterpice, compared to NWN (kinda)
   Not that TOB's a masterpice if not compared to NWN, I guess

[Eral]

Exodus. S-T-O-R-Y is the subject of discussion here. Not crap AI, useless henchmen,mages-as-toast/fighters-as-winners, radial menus and everything else that needed to fixed in the expansions.

Firstly, a crap er-weaknesses in one story cannot be addressed by subsequent unrelated releases. What, does someone pop in to the completely different dimension you are in to let you know if Aribeth got beheaded and whether Aarin Gend is pissed off because you didn't call? Oh, that makes it all better. I am now completely satisfied that the first story didn't feel the need to do this. Using this reasonong, all those people who have serious concerns about the story in TOB, will feel completely different about it if a passing explanation about it is in the upcoming game. Clearly not going to happen.

Secondly, one would have to have liked the first game enough to bother with an expansion pack. If SoU and the rest are better stories, and have a more logical structure, that's good - but Bioware should release some demos if they want to convince those of us wearing badges that say "Betrayed By Bioware". (Which many KotOR2 players are sporting.) The bitterness runs deep. (Points to Lu's post as supporting evidence.)

[Lu]

The basic story was almost decent, but the way it was implemented was rather simple. Every chapter had the feeling of "You need to find 4 items. There are four places to go. North, south, east, west, nice and easy to remember..." It was the same damn thing all the way through! I got dumber just thinking about it!

     Save that the items aren't actually needed
 - Can't find 'em items? No problem, start a new game in chapter 3, say, not in chapter 1 that you can't find them items
 - But I want to know what the story is about
 - The story? Who cares (kinda)

[CoM_Solaufein]

*thinks about how best to respond to Melkor without resorting to over-use of capitals and the shocked and rolling eye smilies*

SPOILERS BELOW.


Hmm. While I did like some of the individual chapters,(I'm with Muerte on side-quests): the overall story made me feel that someone was moving the goal posts. I have found the cure for the plague, and the king is back on deck, but it might have been better if I didn't because he has no helpful contribution to make. I have removed the traitor and established Fenthick's innocence but that doesn't matter because the king decides to ignore everything I have found out. I convince Aribeth to surrender but apparently she wasn't that important to the evil army and I need to go and get the Really Bad guy. I have defeated the Really Bad guy using the simple expedient of hacking at him until he falls down when I am magically spirited away to an unknown destination. This was not nearly as logical or as satisfying as the progression in Find and Kill Sarevok, and Find and Kill Irenicus.

Then, there were individual elements in the story that I felt were, umm, weak. All of the Masters in the Academy getting killed by goblins who appear to be quite easy to overcome if you hit them. Whats'isname Fenthick getting the blame from the king when the poisoner had him fooled as well. Aribeth getting up the next morning after Fenthick gets the chop to go lead the evil armies. The suggestion that the king might forgive her for totally betraying the country because she was peeved. The "romance" where you get to ask a polite question every chapter. The completely unfinished final chapter, where you never find out what happens to everybody in the end. Barrel smashing. Objects belonging to all the henchmen being found as a part of the main quest, no sub- quest required. And these are just the things that were wrong with the story.

_{I admit that it would have been quicker to just say WHAT??   but sometimes it's nice to trot out your sense of grievance and give it an airing.}

I'll let you win this time. I haven't played NWN since it was released, so I really don't have anything to counter on what you said.

[Exodus]

Exodus. S-T-O-R-Y is the subject of discussion here. Not crap AI, useless henchmen,mages-as-toast/fighters-as-winners, radial menus and everything else that needed to fixed in the expansions.

Firstly, a crap er-weaknesses in one story cannot be addressed by subsequent unrelated releases. What, does someone pop in to the completely different dimension you are in to let you know if Aribeth got beheaded and whether Aarin Gend is pissed off because you didn't call? Oh, that makes it all better. I am now completely satisfied that the first story didn't feel the need to do this. Using this reasonong, all those people who have serious concerns about the story in TOB, will feel completely different about it if a passing explanation about it is in the upcoming game. Clearly not going to happen.

Secondly, one would have to have liked the first game enough to bother with an expansion pack. If SoU and the rest are better stories, and have a more logical structure, that's good - but Bioware should release some demos if they want to convince those of us wearing badges that say "Betrayed By Bioware". (Which many KotOR2 players are sporting.) The bitterness runs deep. (Points to Lu's post as supporting evidence.)

And you accuse me of having bi-polar disrder?  Where did I mention AI?

Nowhere.

Same question still stands luvvie.  People are complaining about the story, fablula, sjuzet or whatever term you choose to give it Eral.  I'm not denying that the original NWN had it's weakpoints but you're glossing over the fact that the expansions added story.  What's the assessment on those?

**SPOILERS WARNING**

Hmm. While I did like some of the individual chapters,(I'm with Muerte on side-quests): the overall story made me feel that someone was moving the goal posts. I have found the cure for the plague, and the king is back on deck, but it might have been better if I didn't because he has no helpful contribution to make. I have removed the traitor and established Fenthick's innocence but that doesn't matter because the king decides to ignore everything I have found out. I convince Aribeth to surrender but apparently she wasn't that important to the evil army and I need to go and get the Really Bad guy. I have defeated the Really Bad guy using the simple expedient of hacking at him until he falls down when I am magically spirited away to an unknown destination. This was not nearly as logical or as satisfying as the progression in Find and Kill Sarevok, and Find and Kill Irenicus.

The biggest issue with the original game was the convenience of the ending; ie, it ignored everything that you're asked to set out to accomplish in the previous chapters.  The usage of Aribeth I thought was very good.  The voice acting was brilliant, the conversations you can have on friendship if you've got the ring, her evidently being used thus *indicating* she's not really all that important to an overall cause but handy to have.  Her losing faith in something she's believed in for most of her life?  I think that was done very well.  You're serving up a rather compressed PoV which in some cases is slightly tainted by hindsight.

Then, there were individual elements in the story that I felt were, umm, weak. All of the Masters in the Academy getting killed by goblins who appear to be quite easy to overcome if you hit them. Whats'isname Fenthick getting the blame from the king when the poisoner had him fooled as well. Aribeth getting up the next morning after Fenthick gets the chop to go lead the evil armies. The suggestion that the king might forgive her for totally betraying the country because she was peeved. The "romance" where you get to ask a polite question every chapter. The completely unfinished final chapter, where you never find out what happens to everybody in the end. Barrel smashing. Objects belonging to all the henchmen being found as a part of the main quest, no sub- quest required. And these are just the things that were wrong with the story.

There are, for sure, weak spots in what's a very linear plot but again, I think this is a reduced version of what transpires across the course of the game.  I don't think that every tangent in a story has to be accounted for nor are the classic "hope and betrayal" elements placed within out of touch with the rest of the game.

[Eral]

Exodus: I think you are bringing up issues From SomeWhere Else.    If this was GitP you'd be in big trouble.     If you wish to discuss this Alleged Accusation with me  in the Appropriate Venue, I will be happy to. I am very disappointed that you are not observing basic Netiquette. *tsk tsk tsk*
I'm glad to see that you were able to understand my post, eventually, and rationally discuss the areas of weakness I perceive. Good work. The point that you still seemed to be confused about is my contention that these weaknesses will always be there. They are never going to be fixed, and anyone buying the game will no doubt perceive them to some degree. The fact that subsequent games are perceived to be better written, doesn't change NWN. I implied that due to my bitter disappointment with the game I never bought any of the expansions, and thus cannot speak on them. I was too subtle, I see. Unless Bioware releases a patch that changes the story, I believe NWN will suck like a newborn baby be perceived by many as making the story in TOB look good containing gaps and inconsistencies that detract from the player's enjoyment. And I will never play any of the expansions unless Bio releases a demo to prove they fixed the hideously unwieldy game mechanics.

_{I bet GitP doesn't let you use strikethrough.}

Melkor, I hope you have learned to never defend NWN unless you are prepared for a heartfelt and long outpouring griping.