Author Topic: This really ticked me off!  (Read 13766 times)

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2005, 06:39:21 AM »
Well ArsEral, since you managed to turn a discussion on America's "enemy combatants" into an argument about political correctness and managed to sneak sexist views and implications into every other paragraph you wrote, I don't really think you have much right to complain if someone doesn't come up with clever replies to the current topic.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 06:42:36 AM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2005, 08:38:07 AM »
... many of the things PC classifies as offensive simply aren't.  For instance, to anyone with even an ounce of common sense, a man who talks about a "manhole cover" or a "chairman" who happens to be female isn't being sexist; yet according to the PC brigade, he is.  PC enforcers also often show a complete disregard for the rules of language, especially grammar (e.g. "their" instead of "his" is not grammatically correct, yet PCers often insist upon it).
How do you know it isn't offensive? Are you a woman??
Use of the term "PC enforcers" is meaningless. Do you mean women who object to not being included in the terminology of their own language? Or women you don't find personally attractive who say things that challenge your view?? Perhaps we need Madonna and Kylie to get on board, and then it won't be such a problem.
Manhole cover, who cares? But if I am chairing a committee, you can bet your bottom dollar I neither want to be referred to as "Chairman" or "Madam Chair". Because I am neither a man nor a bit of furniture. (Yes, I know you don't agree, but just run with it for now.)
I know that grammar is very important to you, but here's 2 ideas: showing respect for other people is important. Language is not immutable - it changes. Check out Chaucer if you have any doubts.

Apologies to everyone who is allergic to feminist diatribes. I tried to ignore it, really. But it was more than I could bear.

I can imagine that its very irritating.
I think that we need more gender-neutral language.
I remember reading a book about embroiding and it was clearly addressed to women, so reading it was really annoying.
Being almost constantly suggested that a reader should be of opposite gender must be even more annoying.
So, I think that language must be changed in order to allow humanity to progress further.
I think that we need more universal and less corrupted standards of being human.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2005, 08:50:45 AM »
I think that we need more universal and less corrupted standards of being human.

Don't you mean "hupeople"? :P
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2005, 10:30:42 AM »
Wopeople?

I think that only non-sexist (but not non-offensive) way of naming ones gender is naming it after their genitals.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 10:52:26 AM by Sorrow »
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Offline Regullus

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2005, 11:56:31 AM »
Well ArsEral...

 Bad attempt at a derogatory nickname.  Examples of appropriate, funny and derogatory nicknames would be something along the lines of Smegullus, or Nutmare. Pretty funny nicks, right? Let's use your attempt, ARsegullus. A stunningly bad nick, no? Nutmare or NightmArse? It is strange to me that you missed a very easy and appropriate (from your point of view) nickname for Eral. I can only conclude that you had your head up your arse when you typed your pathetic attempt at an insulting nickname. :)*



*Yes, that is a patronizing smillie. ;)




Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2005, 12:11:03 PM »
ArsEral is far less pathetic than Smegullus.  Nutmare's pretty useless too, considering my nick is NiGHTMARE, not Nightmare.
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2005, 12:21:53 PM »
Smegullus is, in fact, hilarious. :)

Offline Regullus

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2005, 12:35:36 PM »
Smegullus is, in fact, hilarious. :)

I thought it was pretty funny too, far better than something like ARsegullus. Ah well, can't please everyone.

Offline CORVIS TERRIBLE MOUNTAIN GOD

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2005, 02:47:28 PM »
my nick is NiGHTMARE, not Nightmare.

He's right, guys. You really aren't going to be able to improve on something so sublimely awful.

Offline jester

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2005, 04:16:41 PM »
While we are not talking about anything in particular here, let me pester you with a little something about voting machines!:

E-Vote Rigging in Venezuela?
http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,64687,00.html

Venezuela election boycott widens
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4487686.stm

Smells like Oh, Hi, Oh! Don't you think?
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Offline Eral

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2005, 04:31:27 PM »
Sorrow, where do you get these ideas? Replacing gender terms with biological ones? Ye gods, that needs to go in the Toilet humour thread. The boyz will love it. (Take it STRAIGHT there, PLEASE.)
As to the question of nicknames,I see that nIghtmare needs some help. OK, everybody. Nicknames for BigNLittleIBigGHTMARE to use when addressing me. Erroneousal? bEral? Enforceral? (Try and keep the swearing to a minimum. I'm delicately brought up and sensitive.) Come on, Regullus, you've got one already, I can tell.

nIghtmare, it would be helpful if you would try responding to questions and statements without resorting to abuse and putdowns. For instance, when I ask who the PC enforcers are, you could provide me with a list of names of people currently ensuring non-gender specific terms are being used. Or, you could say, well, no I don't anyone who has that specific job, it just annoys me when people seem to be so over-sensitive. Then I could say well I think it's important that language is inclusive. You might then disagree, discussing some examples  -like Joe's minister, where the outcome appears extreme. I will come up with some snappy little examples from history illustrating why it's a cause of sensitivity. And so on. Only nest-quote if you are going to discuss the point. How about it?

Edit: added this on
jester, is that Florida as well? You've got to hand it to the anti-Chavez group. "We, the minority, will keep on trying to remove the lawfully elected government, until we get the leader we want." Rich people have such a skewed view on the meaning of democracy. Is it just that they are not used to getting their own way?




« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 04:48:58 PM by Eral »
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Offline Joe

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2005, 04:33:19 PM »
Why should the minister have been allowed to make negative comments about homosexuals?

Why shouldn't he have? Free speech ought to be protected no matter who it offends.

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If it's against the law, as it must have been for him to get a jail sentence, then he shouldn't have been making such comments.

I'm not sure that he and many others even understood the absurd extent of such a law in the first place. But that is irrelevant, because the law shouldn't be there. It is PC censorship.

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Homosexuals everywhere are now wondering why their governments don't have such laws.

Well the simple answer is because they don't have a right (at least in this country) to not be offended.

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I realise that churches are generally homophobic institutions, but since such prejudice goes against the basic teachings of most churches -you know, forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance- I don't see how being in church while he made these statements made it all OK. Unless he was claiming sanctuary.

The man was speaking to his congregation. It shouldn't be strange to anyone that Christians believe homosexuality to be wrong; the fact that his words were mean-spirited doesn't mean he needs to go to jail.


Offline Sorrow

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2005, 04:55:36 PM »
My religion says that drugging random people and sodomizing them is good and virtuous.
I want my right to drug and sodomize random people back!
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Offline jester

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2005, 04:57:36 PM »
I think that people's ability to speak their minds freely should be relative to the position they hold. Responsibility is what keeps the right to free speech intact. If a minister is preaching ex cathedra or even the pope that is serious business. Christians should be able to talk about a lot more than just bashing other lifestyles. It is ok for your congregation to do as you say as far as I am concerened, but if it is against the law you should respect that as well.
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2005, 05:03:07 PM »
Sorrow, where do you get these ideas? Replacing gender terms with biological ones? Ye gods, that needs to go in the Toilet humour thread. The boyz will love it. (Take it STRAIGHT there, PLEASE.)

I got this idea after googling in "hupeople".
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2005, 05:09:37 PM »
I don't know whether or not I should put a retroactive pre-emptive strong language warning in this post, so read no further if you don't like the word "fuck" and its ilk.  Anyways... the post:

So that means I can call you a dick and get away with it?  And Eral would be a pussy?
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Offline Eral

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2005, 05:13:47 PM »
Come on Joe, stop using the term "PC" unless you are referring to Personal Computers. You know you really mean "people who are saying thingsConservatives don't like".
We have this debate here. Our State leader, the Premier, put forward a law called the Racial Vilification Act, making it an offense to vilify others on the basis of their race, gender, sexuality. You get fined if you do. The people who are most upset about it are the Christian churches who are fond of making anti-Muslim and anti-gay statements in their churches. I don't believe it is OK to say abusive things from your pulpit. In fact, I think you have a responsibility to be just and fair. You are in a position of influence.
Is it censorship or a statement of values that should be upheld? Is it free speech or an attack on a group of people whose rights should be protected? I think a difficult balance has been reached. I accept the need for censorship in film, books, and other media. I don't believe free speech means the right to abuse whom you like.


 
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Offline Joe

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2005, 06:24:51 PM »
Come on Joe, stop using the term "PC" unless you are referring to Personal Computers. You know you really mean "people who are saying thingsConservatives don't like".

What I mean is political correctness. That term has nothing to do with what people say, but what they don't want others to say. The difference betweem me and the politically correct crowd is that I don't believe people ought to be punished for speaking offensively.

It's really that kind of über-sensitivity that needs to be curbed.

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We have this debate here. Our State leader, the Premier, put forward a law called the Racial Vilification Act, making it an offense to vilify others on the basis of their race, gender, sexuality. You get fined if you do.

Again, another case of political correctness gone way to far.

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The people who are most upset about it are the Christian churches who are fond of making anti-Muslim and anti-gay statements in their churches.


Why shouldn't they be allowed to make such comments?

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I don't believe it is OK to say abusive things from your pulpit. In fact, I think you have a responsibility to be just and fair. You are in a position of influence.

Responsibility, yes. Legally mandated duty? No.

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Is it censorship or a statement of values that should be upheld? Is it free speech or an attack on a group of people whose rights should be protected?

It is censorship. What rights are you referring to here?

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I accept the need for censorship in film, books, and other media.

I don't see the need a'tall.

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I don't believe free speech means the right to abuse whom you like.

I do. Verbally, of course.

Offline Regullus

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2005, 08:07:07 PM »
While we are not talking about anything in particular here, let me pester you with a little something about voting machines!:

E-Vote Rigging in Venezuela?
http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,64687,00.html

Venezuela election boycott widens
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4487686.stm

Smells like Oh, Hi, Oh! Don't you think?

http://makethemaccountable.com/articles/Ohio_s_Odd_Numbers.htm

Come on, Regullus, you've got one already, I can tell.

 FEral came to mind. ;D

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Edit: added this on
jester, is that Florida as well? You've got to hand it to the anti-Chavez group. "We, the minority, will keep on trying to remove the lawfully elected government, until we get the leader we want. 


 I would guess this is the minority too. Some people believe that Chavez is a dictator because he will not allow "valuable" members of Venezuela to leave the country with their families for fear, one would suppose, that the people would never return.  Yes, some people, do not believe that Chavez is a liberator, some believe he is a dictator, but only the minority?

 Honestly, I don't know what he is, but I do lean towards flawed and corrupt leader more than I do savior. I am a bit of a cynic, and I have few heroes or heriones. Time will tell, as it always does.

Offline Eral

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2005, 08:49:39 PM »
I am sure Chavez has got his faults. He's a politician. As far as I can tell, the only reason he is still clinging to power is that the poor people keep voting for him. If the rich people just sit back and wait, he'll go the way of all dubious leaders. It's just interesting that he keeps winning elections, they keep trying to get rid of him, and they protest because he's been democratically elected. EDIT: FEral. Fabulous work. You have so got it, Regull.

Joe, you might want to consider censorship on porn for a moment - you know, one of those things The Family is under attack from? Of course, icelus will be pleased to hear he can start sharing his MILF images with you. In the interest of freedom of speech. I will be safe because I still believe in regulation.
All people have rights to marriage, career, freedom from harassment. In your country you call it pursuit of happiness.
I happen to believe that since Christ's message was that the poor and the outcast should not be excluded from community, churches are denying Christ when they make statements inciting fear and hatred against others. It's just plain wrong. And hypocritical.
Oh, by the way, how are you planning to curb uber-sensitives? Won't you need to censor them?
You are nest-quoting, making a comment, but not explaining your reasons. In the interest of discussion, it would be helpful if you would. For instance, why you see no need for censorship of film, books and media. You're not returning to your former habits of posting with the purpose of being annoying, are you?  :'(
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 08:52:18 PM by Eral »
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2005, 12:30:15 AM »
As I understand it, Chavez kicked United Fruit's ass.  Or something like that.  Based on that one (possibly false) fact, I like the guy.  Then there's something about oil in there, improving the education system, and some other good stuff.  In a world with leaders as flawed as they are, he seems to be one of the better ones.
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Offline Joe

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2005, 02:25:14 AM »
I am sure Chavez has got his faults. He's a politician. As far as I can tell, the only reason he is still clinging to power is that the poor people keep voting for him. If the rich people just sit back and wait, he'll go the way of all dubious leaders. It's just interesting that he keeps winning elections, they keep trying to get rid of him, and they protest because he's been democratically elected.

Chavez is Fidel Castro #2.

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Joe, you might want to consider censorship on porn for a moment - you know, one of those things The Family is under attack from?

You assume that I favor censorship of porn. I do not, but I also do not see porn as an issue of speech.

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All people have rights to marriage, career, freedom from harassment.

I disagree about the marriage part, and also question the harassment part. Harassment and taking offense to someone's comments are not the same.

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I happen to believe that since Christ's message was that the poor and the outcast should not be excluded from community, churches are denying Christ when they make statements inciting fear and hatred against others. It's just plain wrong. And hypocritical.

I agree that inciting fear and hatred is unchristian. But I do not think that preaching that homosexuality is wrong, immoral, and/or sinful is unchristian or even wrong. Ake Green's (the minister in question) were more mean-spirited than that: he described homosexuality as "abnormal, a horrible cancerous tumor in the body of society," said gays are "perverts, whose sexual drive the Devil has used as his strongest weapon against God." Not very Christ-like. But does this matter? Are you using the Bible as your source of law? Whether or not his words reflected the teachings of Christ is irrlevant, the issue at hand is whether or not he should have been sentenced to a month in jail. I think that he should not have been.

Again, where is this right to not be offended?
 
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Oh, by the way, how are you planning to curb uber-sensitives? Won't you need to censor them?

Why would I need to censor them? Those people can choose to speak in whatever PC way they like and act PC and do whatever, I never said they shouldn't have that right.

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You are nest-quoting, making a comment, but not explaining your reasons. In the interest of discussion, it would be helpful if you would. For instance, why you see no need for censorship of film, books and media. You're not returning to your former habits of posting with the purpose of being annoying, are you?  :'(

I have never posted simply to annoy. As far as censorship of various media, I don't see the need because I just don't see the need.

Why do you see the need for censorhip of those media? What do you think should be censored?

Offline Eral

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2005, 04:53:58 AM »
I was thinking of ratings that identify content - G,PG, MA, R are the ones we have here- for films and computer games, and making kiddie porn, violent porn etc not readily obtainable. I think it's a sensible form of censorship, as it gives people information and allows them to make a choice.
Marriage gives a legal identity to partners, allowing them and their children to inherit, and generally enjoy status under law. To deny it to a group of people in the community on the basis of sexual orientation, race or religion is unjust. So is using a public platform to say the sorts of things that minister said. I take it he doesn't have gay friends.
I think the un-Christlikeness of his behaviour is an important point -how on earth does he justify this crap? And yes, I do take my source from the Bible, but mostly the New Testament. I don't spend a lot of my time teaching 8 year olds about Sodom and Gommorrah. We have this new focus on forgiveness and love - it's producing healthier adults.
But I guess we didn't need to have this discussion, because the law got passed, he got dobbed in, charged, found guilty and sentenced. What he did was wrong in the eyes of that community and he suffered the lawful consequence of it.
 
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Offline jester

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2005, 08:03:38 AM »
@Regullus' link:

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In Precinct lB of Gahanna, in Franklin County, a computerized voting machine recorded a total of 4,258 votes for Bush and 260 votes for Kerry. In that precinct, however, there are only 800 registered voters, of whom 638 showed up. Once the “glitch” had been identified, the president had to be content with 3,893 fewer votes than the computer had awarded him.

In Miami County, a Saddam Hussein-type turnout was recorded in the Concord Southwest and Concord South precincts, which boasted 98.5 percent and 94.27 percent turnouts, respectively, both of them registering overwhelming majorities for Bush. Miami County also managed to report 19,000 additional votes for Bush after 100 percent of the precincts had reported on Election Day.

Note that this is an article by Christopher Hitchens!

I mean if votes are rigged in some albeit rich country down south that is deplorable, but in the US of A that is quite a thing for me.

EDIT: Damn typed quotes. :/
« Last Edit: December 04, 2005, 10:19:24 AM by jester »
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

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Offline Regullus

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Re: This really ticked me off!
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2005, 08:12:42 AM »
@Jester - Hitchens should not be dismissed solely due to his war position. I usually find him quite interesting and amusing.


http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27996