Author Topic: Madam President  (Read 25672 times)

Offline Joe

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #225 on: November 22, 2005, 03:16:35 PM »
Joe, it wasn't a financially good idea for anyone.

Wrong. France, Russia, and Germany had a financial interest in keeping Saddam Hussein in power due to debts and lucrative contracts.

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It is becoming very clear now that the excuses for the war were lies - lies, Joe, not a mistake - and we knew ages ago that Little Johnny and his mates knew they were lies.

I'm not going to argue against the view that Bush and/or those around him fudged some things here or there, but let's not pretend that every respected intelligence agency in the world was in agreement about Saddam Hussein's arsenal. The disagreements centered around how to deal with the dictator.

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Therefore I say he was gutless - because he rolled and did what GW wanted, rather than following the course set by the UN.

The course set by the UN was that which the US and its allies followed.

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Vel's point about Johnny being a fascist little shit is pertinent to this discussion.


It's interesting that George Orwell's 1946 essay, "Politics and the English Language", still has immense relevance 61 years later:

The word Fascism has now no meaning except insofar as it signifies “something not desirable.”

Offline jester

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #226 on: November 22, 2005, 04:24:38 PM »
Joe, it wasn't a financially good idea for anyone.

Wrong. France, Russia, and Germany had a financial interest in keeping Saddam Hussein in power due to debts and lucrative contracts.

[James Brown voice]

Wow, brothers and sisters. Do we have any true believers in this church??? Say it loud, say it clear. Let your voice soar like an eagle to the sky: Haaalle, I said Haaaaleeee, I said *cough* Halliburton. ::)

[/James Brown voice]

Isn't that sweet, conquering a country and making them hire only your companies  for reconstruction and ripping them off in the process? Then blaming everybody else they had financial interests in the matter?

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It is becoming very clear now that the excuses for the war were lies - lies, Joe, not a mistake - and we knew ages ago that Little Johnny and his mates knew they were lies.

I'm not going to argue against the view that Bush and/or those around him fudged some things here or there, but let's not pretend that every respected intelligence agency in the world was in agreement about Saddam Hussein's arsenal. The disagreements centered around how to deal with the dictator.

Murtha: 'We spend more on intelligence as the entire ret of the world combined.' I read a very good article once (Should I find it again I will post that link) about a CIA guy who said that in the beginning they were clearly professionals. Now it is just a bureaucracy and it hasn't predicted a single event correctly in recent history. Days before the Berlin wall came down, it said that the state authorities were rock solid, it was wrong about Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan and a whole lot of other incidents too. Bush and his cronies (some more than others) wanted this war. We have been told that the republican guards are like Darth Vader's special forces themselves and would fight on with their bare hands. Actually the people surrendered so fast that the roundup of POW awas one of the main problems in the offensive. The troops got a lot of friendly fire in both Gulf wars as they advanced at a multible speed to what had been predicted. Bush ran on NOT policing the world. He betrayed the American people by turning a 180 degree on that position. I don't agree with Buchanan often, but this republican has done a major disservice to your party in most fields.

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Therefore I say he was gutless - because he rolled and did what GW wanted, rather than following the course set by the UN.

The course set by the UN was that which the US and its allies followed.

Powell > Security Council > UN... no WMDs? Sorry then it is a good thing to whack dictators anyway right? Right?
Thank God the other token black member of the administration behaved so much better.

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The word Fascism has now no meaning except insofar as it signifies “something not desirable.”
And it rightfully is, if you disagree I will have you and your siblings and everybody who looks like you executed on the spot when the party has the power. Fascism on both sides is possible and a very regrettable fact.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

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Offline Joe

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #227 on: November 23, 2005, 08:36:40 PM »

Isn't that sweet, conquering a country and making them hire only your companies  for reconstruction and ripping them off in the process? Then blaming everybody else they had financial interests in the matter?

I haven't seen any evidence that suggests the US went to war in order to benefit Halliburton. Whether or not that company was wrongly favored once the war began is another story.

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It is becoming very clear now that the excuses for the war were lies - lies, Joe, not a mistake - and we knew ages ago that Little Johnny and his mates knew they were lies.

I'm not going to argue against the view that Bush and/or those around him fudged some things here or there, but let's not pretend that every respected intelligence agency in the world was in agreement about Saddam Hussein's arsenal. The disagreements centered around how to deal with the dictator.

Quote
Murtha: 'We spend more on intelligence as the entire ret of the world combined.'

Yeah, well as you you continue, you prove that spending money doesn't equal eficiency:

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I read a very good article once (Should I find it again I will post that link) about a CIA guy who said that in the beginning they were clearly professionals. Now it is just a bureaucracy and it hasn't predicted a single event correctly in recent history. Days before the Berlin wall came down, it said that the state authorities were rock solid, it was wrong about Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan and a whole lot of other incidents too.

Yes, the CIA sucks right now. But the US intelligence was in line with that of other nations'.

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Bush and his cronies (some more than others) wanted this war.

I think if they didn't, there wouldn't have been a war a'tall...

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We have been told that the republican guards are like Darth Vader's special forces themselves and would fight on with their bare hands. Actually the people surrendered so fast that the roundup of POW awas one of the main problems in the offensive.

I don't remember being told that the Republican Guard would be like that, and I don't remember hearing that those guys were surrendering in huge numbers. I know that Iraqi regulars surrended in that way. Could be wrong about the Guard, though.

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Bush ran on NOT policing the world. He betrayed the American people by turning a 180 degree on that position.

I'm sure the attacks in 2001 changed his view of the world and its conflicts. I don't think going to war with Iraq was a betrayal of the nation as I still believe it was something that needed to be done eventually. But it has been handled with atrocious inefficiency.

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I don't agree with Buchanan often, but this republican has done a major disservice to your party in most fields.

I don't have a party. Parties are just gatherings of the crooks and the power-hungry. I am registered as a Republican so I can vote in primaries.

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Powell > Security Council > UN... no WMDs? Sorry then it is a good thing to whack dictators anyway right? Right?
Thank God the other token black member of the administration behaved so much better.

The UN had for 12 years called for an end to Saddam Hussein's weapons production and stockpiling without response. It then threatened serious consequences if it did not receive immediate cooperation. I don't see what the problem is.

And how are Powell and Rice token blacks? You do know they are/weren't the only black or minority members of his administration, yes?

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Fascism on both sides is possible and a very regrettable fact.

That it is possible does not mean that any politician who does or says something we don't like is a fascist.

Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Madam President
« Reply #228 on: November 24, 2005, 02:35:16 AM »

Powell > Security Council > UN... no WMDs? Sorry then it is a good thing to whack dictators anyway right? Right?
Thank God the other token black member of the administration behaved so much better.

The UN had for 12 years called for an end to Saddam Hussein's weapons production and stockpiling without response. It then threatened serious consequences if it did not receive immediate cooperation. I don't see what the problem is.

And how are Powell and Rice token blacks? You do know they are/weren't the only black or minority members of his administration, yes?

You mean the massive weapon stockpiles that weren't found? be they WMDs or regular arms? Or perhaps you mean the weapon stockpiles listed in the report that USA personell absconded with and edited to an unknown degree. And the UN got immediate co-operation. Before the USA invaded, to the level they were requesting. So uh. I don't see why any invasion was necessary.
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