Author Topic: BG1 reworking (under tutu)  (Read 3149 times)

Offline aigleborgne

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BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« on: October 31, 2005, 05:00:44 PM »
Hello,

After playing some many runs through bg1, I have decided to look at game scripts, creatures, and spells.

I have noticed many wrong things:
- poorly equiped fighters, that usually don't wear helmets (hello critical hits).
- bad choices in proef. (according to equiped weapons)
- wrong spell table for mage. usually, they can cast too many low level spells, and too few high level ones
- errors in creature (saves, hit points, thaco, ...)
- very bad scripts for mage

Now, I will take an example to illustrate all this:
Kahrk, the mighiest of ogre-mage, a fighter-mage lvl 12.
First problem, he is defined as ogre-mage, which means level casting = 1 (I checked this with magic missiles). So I changed class to mage
He wears normal weapons, which looks strange for his level and the fact he is the mighiest... and no helmet. I gave him a katana+3 and helmet of charm protection, plus 2 stars in single weapon and katana.
He has bad spells selection (due to BG1 spells limitation) and wrong spell table (he should be able to have 1 lvl 6 spell, and 4 lvl 1 to 5)

I gave him a nice selection of spells, according to the fact he is a fighter-mage (tenser transformation, prot from normal weapon, haste, stonekin, mirror... and some damage spells like sunfire, ...). All that with a somewhat good script (I spent 2 days to write it) that allows him to swing weapons between casting (very important!)

After some tests, I was kinda disapointed because even with all that, he doesn't have time to launch his prot. spells and dies quickly. So I was forced to cheat a bit and give him prep. prot spells (similar to contigencies and what I have seen in tactics mod).

Then, I deleted many tutu bg1 spells, as I prefer their bg2 counterpart.

Now, Kahrk is effectivly scary and highly dangerous. My level 8 sorcerer can't defeat him anymore, nor can any fighter in my party. A good teamwork is necessary, and then, he will probably kill 1 or 2 before dying)

I know there is a mod called "Field of the Dead" that did this but for now, it doesn't work under tutu and it change many other things.
I just want to make a better game just by changing what I feel wrong.

Maybe, I will make a small mod if some are interested in.

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2005, 07:29:18 PM »
The more mods for Tutu, the better, I say.
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Offline Rabain

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2005, 04:35:29 PM »
One thing I would be asking is that any extra weapons etc that are added to creatures be undroppable.

That is all.
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Offline aigleborgne

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2005, 03:38:21 PM »
Yes, I have thought about that too :)
I don't want to give extra items rewards... everything is about more realistic opponent.

By now, I have done:
- Kahrk, the ogre-mage   :  Fighter/mage lvl 12, extremely dangerous
- Brage
- Greywolf : he is now tougher to better match his reputation, and for carrying a so good weapon
- Angelo : figher lvl 9 dual to mage lvl 12. he is mostly an archer.
- Semaj : mage lvl 12.

Beside Greywolf, I don't touch base stats. I correct thac0 AC saving throws errors (in some cases, I left them).
I give equipment according to the level and situation of the character. For example, Semaj is well equipped, similarly to what PC can have. (All new equipment is undroppable)

I dion't plan to modifiy fighter's script.
I'm actually working on mage's script.

I have done:
- a fighter-mage script (used by karhk and angelo by now)
- a mage script.

I'm quite satisfied with my script, but it could be improved by far... I don't have enough experience in script programming. Mine is highly inspired of tatics one, and some other one I have found.

Altough I gave correct number of spells to mages, they cast one more spell of certain ones. Because I often use ReallyForceSpell for combat preparation, and forcespell for magic protection. Unfortunaly, this commands don't decrease spell's use...
I could unmemorized them in spell book, but it's fine like it is.

Even with a good script, a NPC mage doesn't match a PC mage (if the player know his spells hehe). I try to program most situations in scripts, but it's nearly impossible to be perfect, and I am sure some players could find some flaws. Because of all that, preparation spells and some forcespells are needed.

One thing is sure  : my scripts are far superior to original ones :)

I keep learning and improving.

Offline Salk

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2005, 02:33:19 AM »
aigleborgne,

very very well done!  ;) Please keep us updated if you dont mind. Your initiative is personally extremely welcomed and I am looking forward to your full fledged mod! Keep it up!  ;)

Offline underdog

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2005, 09:32:51 AM »
does the ogere mage really need a +3 weapon, he's already an ogre so should have 18/00 strength, which IIRC means he already gets +3/+6 to hit and damage, this is BG1, unless you get to the ruins a little late in the game, you probably have anywhere from 20-50 hp, depending on class, a katana should give him d10+3+6 or 10-19 damage per hit, thats means he can kill any of your characters in 2-3 hits, or concievably one round, go in to attack and your dead before you even get to do anything.

You give him a better selection of spells, thats fine and well, but stoneskin, normally not available in BG1 AFAIK, means you now have to waste 3-5 hits to do any damage, meanwhile he could have 6-10 attacks/hits in and wiped out your party and he's still uninjured, also stoneskin can't be dispelled in BG1 it requires a breach so an Inquisitor's dispel won't (shouldn't) touch it.

Don't get me wrong, fixing game deficiencies is ok, giving them the correct abilities and what not, more intelligent usage of abilities, but things that aren't available in the game,  not to sure about.

Of course I'm probably being pessimisitic, this from a guy whose main guys only line in battle is 'Argg Hold still' (in case you didn't know that's the male2 critical miss line), he will crit miss 6-7 times in a row, I have has several rounds where the entire party critical misses, then the ones that didn't critical miss, were rolls of 2, iv'e had entire battles where the *only* thing that hits is magic missile, (or wands) good thing Dynaheir has 10 of them, meanwhile all enemy rolls are all 18-20.


!lanimret siht edisni deppart ma I !pleH

Offline aigleborgne

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2005, 02:05:30 PM »
This mod will be adressed to experts.

Yes, you are right in some points:
he is stronger than your party untill end game.

But I've just followed the rules. He is level 12, ogre-mage. I made him worth his level and powers. I could have lowered his level.
Concerning weapons and spells not available in BG1, I have already told that they are needed to match the level 9+ of opponents.

Without stoneskin & prot from magical weapons, you can nearly kill any mage before they can do anything. A single mirror image and ghost armor won't slow down a good party...

The party is not supposed to kill everything it encounters.
Look Drizzt for example, if you play evil, you should fight him (and normally die if you don't abuse cheasy tactics).

Take BG2 for example, you can enter kangaxx house early in the game, does it mean you should be able to kill him?

In end game, you should have a lvl 8-10 party (ok, I don't use xp cap and have TOSC). At this point, you can kill thoses tough monsters and have a good fight.
If you can't kill him before, flee the fight (if u can hehe), and come back later (well, I must test if the script will work, I guess it will need some work here)

Anyway, I will play through the game after I've finished.
I know how they will fight, but they use the most common spells and tactics people use.

I know there are certain fights that will be nearly impossible to win, I have to test it a lot
(final fight: fighter lvl 15, mage lvl 12, fighter lvl 11, fighter/mage lvl 12)
don't know if a lvl 8-10 party can match this... maybe with many scrolls/potions and a 6 party members.

Offline Borsook

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2005, 02:44:46 PM »
Good idea, though personally I'd rather see a mod that makes corrections without striving for the enemies to become "tactics-like hard"... but that's just me. Keep up the good work.
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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2005, 04:26:09 PM »
Some Ideas for dropable weapons.  Drop things like a magical robe sized for half-ogres, not worth much and can't be worn by smaller NPCs.  Ogre sized +2 long sword, that fits human sized NPCs like a 2-handed weapon but is unbalanced for that so when human/elf use the sword they get -2.  So the party gets a magical 2-handed sword with no +'s, but wont break because of bad metal.  Also, they can drop broken armor and weapons.

Offline aigleborgne

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2005, 05:06:22 PM »
Some Ideas for dropable weapons.  Drop things like a magical robe sized for half-ogres, not worth much and can't be worn by smaller NPCs.  Ogre sized +2 long sword, that fits human sized NPCs like a 2-handed weapon but is unbalanced for that so when human/elf use the sword they get -2.  So the party gets a magical 2-handed sword with no +'s, but wont break because of bad metal.  Also, they can drop broken armor and weapons.

As I said, there will be no new items.

About modifications, all classes but mages will have small changes, mostly corrections and equipment's reviews.
Some fighters willl have and use healing potions.

Mages, on another hand, will get appropriate spellbook. No more stupid spells like lightning bolt that kill themselver or whatever...
I make some variants of spells I usually memorized for my mages (choosing from all spells, including bg2 ones).
I have also given mages some prep spells, according to their level.

Actually, in most fights, my team focus mages first : archers, spells, melee fighters, ... they don't even have time to cast one spell.
After the mages are down, the fight is won, because they are mainly the breakbone of a team.

Everything is about balance.


Offline underdog

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Re: BG1 reworking (under tutu)
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2005, 11:30:16 AM »


Mages, on another hand, will get appropriate spellbook. No more stupid spells like lightning bolt that kill themselver or whatever...
I make some variants of spells I usually memorized for my mages (choosing from all spells, including bg2 ones).
I have also given mages some prep spells, according to their level.



I hate lightning bolts, anyone who casts one in a dungeon deserves to kill themselves, had one cast once, or a trap went off, missed Imoen, bounced 3/4 of the way around the dungeon,and hit Dynaheir, and killed her, she was left way back and was the only one that didn't come forward. :o
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