Author Topic: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation  (Read 1876 times)

Offline ServantofAuril

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Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« on: October 16, 2005, 05:57:25 PM »
Is it possible to edit doors in BG1?  Specifically, the "Candlekeep Inn" door in the Candlekeep area?  I have followed the IETME tutorial to the letter, as well as Cuv's door tut, and although both were helpful in getting started, I can't seem to place a door in the custom building (which is just the Candlekeep Inn extracted with IETME) and I'm using a grid of 64X64 and the closed door (128X192)thats animation I extracted from the closed door polygon of the inn structure, refuses to fit.  In fact, it doesn't snap in the right area of where the open doorway is.  Has anyone tried placing doors similar to this?

If you need a screenshot I will be happy to oblige as soon as I figure out how to get them in a post.  :(





Offline Bons

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2005, 07:05:35 PM »
Yes, post a screenshot. If the area is identical to an exiting one that uses the door, you should be able to place it, perhaps using DLTCEP as an alternative for area editing.

If there's any difference in the grid placement of the original area that I grab a door from and the custom area, I've always had to make my own closed door bitmap in Photoshop so that it would insert in the proper location. This process usually leads to temporary insanity, but it is doable.
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Offline ServantofAuril

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2005, 08:32:21 PM »
Alright, I hope this posts:


(http://somenumerical.com/inn_woods.jpg)


Heres one with the grid set to 64X64:

(http://somenumerical.com/inngrid.jpg)


For the door extractions (not shown here) I simply used IETME's "extract door animation" but for some reason they refuse to fit.


Thanks Bons for helping out an idiotic, but determined newbie :)

Offline Bons

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2005, 09:46:57 PM »
It's not an idiotic problem. I thought I'd never do a custom area with doors because of this very issue. Open floorplans: that's the ticket! :) It's only been this past summer working on areas for Surayah and the De'Arnise Romance that I managed to do some successfully.

This looks like the original building the door goes with is not in an identical position within the 64x64 blocks, so it won't insert seamlessly. What I do in this situation is open the bitmap of my area in Photoshop (Or any graphics program that will allow you to work wth layers and gives the cursor's x,y coordinates.) then add the closed door bitmap I extracted with IETME as another layer. I move and possibly do some erasing of edges of the closed door until I have the closed door aligned just right. Then, I merge the layers and save the area bitmap under a different name. Finally, I get the coordinates of the lower left-hand corner of the 64x64 grid block where the new door bitmap is going to align in IETME. In your case, it looks like you'd have to start your new closed door at (128, 192), then make it 192px wide and 256 px high to make sure the needed sections are covered, but still divisible by 64px. I then take those coordinates, go back to the closed door version of the area I did in Photoshop and cut and save the precise area I need to insert.

That's the general process for making your own closed door bitmap. It's the kind of thing I should make make screenshots of the next time I'm doing it and write a tutorial, because I think there was an additional tweak, like you need to start at [x-1, y-1] because the x-y intercept is at [0.0], otherwise it winds up just slightly off. Unfortunatey, I don't have access to modding tools right now, where I can double-check.
Newt had always suspected that people who regularly used the word "community" were using it in a very specific sense that excluded him and everyone he knew.

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Offline Yovaneth

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2005, 12:03:58 PM »
IETME <shudder>. Joking aside though, IETME has some serious limitations, the worst of which is that is doesn't assemble the finished area in the recognised 'Bioware order'. This means that any mods that use Weidu to modify your area are going to trash it (and probably themselves) because the area data isn't where expected. If Theo had had the time to finish it, it would have been a real kick-ass area editing tool but like so many other tools, the second generation have learned from the first generation's mistakes.

Switch to DLTCEP; the learning curve is somewhat steeper than IETME but I think I've got areas pretty well covered by now, including using DLTCEP to export/import doors accurately. Look here http://www.simpilot.net/~sc/index.htm and see what you think.

-Y-

Offline ServantofAuril

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2005, 08:11:57 PM »
It's not an idiotic problem. I thought I'd never do a custom area with doors because of this very issue. Open floorplans: that's the ticket! :) It's only been this past summer working on areas for Surayah and the De'Arnise Romance that I managed to do some successfully.

This looks like the original building the door goes with is not in an identical position within the 64x64 blocks, so it won't insert seamlessly. What I do in this situation is open the bitmap of my area in Photoshop (Or any graphics program that will allow you to work wth layers and gives the cursor's x,y coordinates.) then add the closed door bitmap I extracted with IETME as another layer. I move and possibly do some erasing of edges of the closed door until I have the closed door aligned just right. Then, I merge the layers and save the area bitmap under a different name. Finally, I get the coordinates of the lower left-hand corner of the 64x64 grid block where the new door bitmap is going to align in IETME. In your case, it looks like you'd have to start your new closed door at (128, 192), then make it 192px wide and 256 px high to make sure the needed sections are covered, but still divisible by 64px. I then take those coordinates, go back to the closed door version of the area I did in Photoshop and cut and save the precise area I need to insert.

That's the general process for making your own closed door bitmap. It's the kind of thing I should make make screenshots of the next time I'm doing it and write a tutorial, because I think there was an additional tweak, like you need to start at [x-1, y-1] because the x-y intercept is at [0.0], otherwise it winds up just slightly off. Unfortunatey, I don't have access to modding tools right now, where I can double-check.

Wohoo!  (Umm, sorry couldn't resist that) 

Thanks to your help I managed to get the door fitting, as well as snapping to the grid in IETME!  I'd love to post the results (the door in the open state, and the door in the closed state) but I think I've already taken up enough space in this thread with the others I've posted.  Needless to say it functions like a door. :) 


Thanks bunches Bons!  You are truly a lifesaver. :D 


 


Offline Bons

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 08:47:26 PM »
Thanks to your help I managed to get the door fitting, as well as snapping to the grid in IETME!  I'd love to post the results (the door in the open state, and the door in the closed state) but I think I've already taken up enough space in this thread with the others I've posted.  Needless to say it functions like a door. :) 

Yay! I'm glad it worked for you!
Newt had always suspected that people who regularly used the word "community" were using it in a very specific sense that excluded him and everyone he knew.

             --Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"

Offline ServantofAuril

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2005, 01:01:33 AM »
Bons,

Something I forgot to post since I was kind of in a rush (my dinner in the oven was on fire and I had to put it out :P) was your idea about there being a tutorial on this subject of this thread.  Since your post helped me a great deal, I'm all for others learning it as well, because in my honest opinion, doors are not an easy task when it comes to ANY tool.  I use DLTCEP and IETME when it comes to area editing and map editing equally so I don't really have a preferred tool.  Having said that, dealing with making doors is something I think both tools have slight problems with, even though they are fabulous in the other areas of modding.

In other words, I really think would-be modders (like myself), or newbies even would benefit from this.  Instead of having to search through forums to find it, they would have it right there in the Pocket Plane Group tutorial section for modders.  :)

Again, I'm all for it :D


Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2005, 06:44:17 AM »
Are you saying you're going to add more work to Bons' plate, or that you're going to do the tutorial yourself?  Because, y'know, you've got vastly more area editing experience than most folk, if you use IETME and DLTCEP, and can get doors to work.  Plus everyone would love you.  You want to be loved, don't you?
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Offline ServantofAuril

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2005, 09:00:16 PM »
Excellent idea, Ghreyfain!  I've never really created a tutorial before but I'm sure it can't be too hard given the experience I've gathered from your suggestions and advice, among others on this forum.  Of course, there's always the chance of misleading somebody though, thats the problem.  I wouldn't be here asking the questions if I wasn't in need of advice myself, you know.  A noob through and through. :P

Having said that, I'd love to make a tutorial on making custom doors work and post it on this site with the site admin's permission.  The only problem I can think of is... meh excuses, excuses :P
What I meant to say is consider it done!  :D

I'll keep you posted on it.

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2005, 09:13:52 PM »
Cool.  *And as for misleading others, that's what this forum is for, too.  People read the tutorial, point out flaws, you correct 'em, people ask questions, you pull out your hair and answer them.  It's a vicious circle, really.

Edit:

*I realise how very amusing this sentence is.  I recommend only reading it after having read the third sentence.  The forums are not for misleading others.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2005, 09:16:00 PM by Ghreyfain »
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Offline Lu

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2005, 01:00:49 PM »
   Am I misunderstanding something? IETME already has a good tutorial, doors are in Chapter 8

Quote
And as for misleading others, that's what this forum is for
   I'll keep that in mind

Offline Bons

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2005, 02:50:52 PM »
The IETME tutorial on doors is for circumstances when the door tileset you are using aligns with the point where you want to insert the door on the 64x64 grid. If they aren't aligned, the instructions in Ch. 8 are not enough to get a working door, which is the aspect we are troubleshooting in this thread.

In other words, the point of the tutorial we are discussing would be how to make a new closed door tile so that the instructions in Ch. 8 work.
Newt had always suspected that people who regularly used the word "community" were using it in a very specific sense that excluded him and everyone he knew.

             --Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"

Offline Lu

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Re: Pertaining to Placing Doors and the 64X64 limitation
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2005, 05:46:11 PM »
  Then it's rather a question of how to use Photoshop, I take. Well, sharing experience with
 the others wouldn't hurt

 

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