Author Topic: Conductor Kit : Balanced?  (Read 5815 times)

Offline Zyraen

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Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« on: September 18, 2005, 10:38:27 PM »
Got the final HLA for Conductor working! :) And man, it's just way cool! Think of a bolt of lightning striking your Conductor, followed by Chain Lightnings streaming from his feet and hitting everyone nearby (though it doesn't bounce). Survivors are then struck by a wave of fire (aka Comet effect) bursting out from about the Conductor, and everyone it hits gets a mini-blast under their feet (aka Celestial Fury effect) Nice screen candy, though it would totally suck on a slow comp...

For the record, the Conductor is a Bard kit that has a direct damage song, which I'm working on, and details are as follows

=========

CONDUCTOR
Advantages
- +10% Electrical Resistance every 4 levels
- may have up to 2 points in Single Weapon Wielding and Short Sword Wielding
level 5 : Bard Song damages nearby opponents for 10 electrical damage for failed Save vs Spells
level 15 : Bard Song damages nearby opponents for 10 electrical damage and 10 fire damage for failed Save vs Spells at -1

Disadvantages
- may only have Proficiency Points in Long Sword, Short Sword, Bastard Sword, Katana, Scimitar, Dagger and Single Weapon Style
- while Bard song is in effect, movement rate is reduced to 4

HLAs

- Conductivity - Reduces enemy's saving throws against the Song's effect by -2, so that they now Save vs Spells at -3 to avoid taking damage from the Conductor's song.

- Explosive Discharge (requires Conductivity) - Increases the damage caused by the Conductor's song from 10 lightning damage and 10 fire damage to 15 lightning damage and 15 fire damage.

- Mobility (requires Explosive Discharge) - Only Available at level 31. The Conductor can move about more freely when employing his song. Instead of his movement being reduced to 4 when singing, he now only takes a -2 modifier to movement.

- Lightning Fury (requires Explosive Discharge) - The Conductor employs magic with his specialised skill to channel electrical and explosive power from above through his very person. This causes 2d10 lightning and 2d10 fire damage to himself, and stuns him for 2 seconds. All enemies within a 30' radius first get hit by a wave of flowing lightning causing 8d10 lightning damage, and survivors are struck by a powerful explosive wave of fire that does 8d10 fire damage. Half of all the damage done by the spell bypasses resistance ; the other half is subject to resistance and Save vs Spells at -6 modifier. All enemies caught in the spell also have to Save vs Spells at -4 or be stunned for 12 seconds.

===================

Lightning Fury is meant to be a cross between Dragons Breath and Comet, with half bypassing resistance and half not, and is a lot less useful than it looks. Not only does the Conductor take damage, but because it only affects enemies around him like when casting Sunfire, he has to stand in the middle of the enemy to cast this, he becomes visible as he casts it (it is an Attack spell), he takes damage when he finishes casting it AND gets stunned for 2 seconds AFTER finishing it. So visuals aside, I doubt it's too powerful.

That being said though, I'm not sure if I should still implement the +10% Electrical Resistance every 4 levels and the 2 proficiency points in Short Sword and Single weapon, for fear it would make the kit too powerful.

What do you guys think ?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2005, 10:41:49 PM by Zyraen »
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2005, 10:52:40 PM »
Can a level 5 fighter dish out 10 damage per round?  Can a mage?  To even a single opponent?  Just by wandering around?  Haven't read the rest.
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Offline Zyraen

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2005, 10:56:09 PM »
I wish I could definitively answer a yes or no to you, but I can't :( not with 0 PnP experience and no BG1 to go by. I suppose though I'll just raise the base level where the Bard Song changes...

Thinking of Invisibility combined with damaging Bard Song though is kinda worrying. I think I need to make a way for the Bard Song to remove the Bard's Invisibility.
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Offline Zyraen

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2005, 10:40:53 AM »
I think I'll drop the 10% Electrical Resistance, and push up the level required to gain the 10 damage Lightning Song, maybe to level 8 or 9, and the level for the upgrade with Fire damage to level 17 or so.
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Kalindor

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2005, 01:33:49 AM »
As a very balance-oriented strategy player, I have posted my thoughts below. Please don't take my sticklerish advice as criticism!  ;)

Concerning the damaging bard song: How often does the bard song "pulse?" In other words, how often are the effects of a singing bard re-applied. If the answer is "every 3 seconds," then you have a major balance issue on your hands. However, if the effects are only re-applied once every five rounds or so, then that is a better effect. You must also see if manually ending the bard song by un-selecting the song button and the re-entering bard song mode will cause the effect to be immediately re-applied. If this is the case, then you could technically sit there and tap the bard song button to apply massive damage to your enemies.  :o Remember that, although you must be conscious of keeping the bard song damage at a balanced level, also realize that the bard must perform no other action whilst singing his song. He can't cast spells, physically attack, or even pick his own nose without ending the song. ;)

Another aspect to consider is that of role viability. Since he cannot aid his allies with his song anymore and deals damage with it instead, this bard's role becomes that of any other damage-dealing class. He must kill things and kill things well. You must try to make his offensive capabilities at least compare somewhat to that of other damage-dealing classes such as fighters and sorcerers or there will be no reason to play as this bard kit over those said damage inflicters. I suggest that this bard's damage potential should not be equal to those classes but slightly below them as the bard still retains his pick pockets and lore bonuses. One class'es (Usefulness + Power) should ideally be equal to any other class'es (Usefullness + Power). A good example would be a thief, who's power is much less but his non-power usefulness is much greater than any fighter or sorcerer.

Bah, how I ramble. What I am basically saying is that this bard kit gives up some of its utility role in favor of becoming primarily a damage-dealer. Therefore, its capability to inflict damage should be roughly equivalent to the damage output of fighters and sorcerers. Slightly less, though, due to its still useful lore and thieving. I believe this is the unspoken motivation of Ghrey's concerns.

Examining the penalties, I think that the weapon selection choices is too broad to be considered a major drawback, especially in light of the 2 possible proficiencies in short sword and single weapon style. I think it would be preferable if you limited the weapon selection as you have but dropped the possible extra proficiency points in short sword and single weapon style. The movement penalty while using the song is a good idea. However, I do not usually move my bard about while he is singing. The fact that you can alleviate this penalty somewhat with a HLA makes it less detracting in the end game. I personally feel that you should tweak this class by adding an additional penalty. Maybe a -3 to max con due to the negative effects of chronically being a vector for electrical current. I think you should keep the electricity resistance but either reduce its rate or cap it at 60% or 80%.

Offline Zyraen

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2005, 09:42:24 AM »
Thanks for your comments :) Don't worry about offending me.

Many good points, I think you're right about the Bard Song. If the Damage goes down, then we have the issue lying in doing minor damage to many opponent or major damage to single foes. In the latter case, even at the current rating, the Bard is almost useless. However, the damage dealt may be too frequent, and too widespread, and the tapping is a problem too.

I like the -3 Con bit :) And 10% electrical resistance per 5 levels up to 50% should be better.

That being said, what do you think if we reduce the number of weapon proficiencies available, and leave the Single Weapon as max two-star, but Short Sword as one ?

The movement penalty is a little more disadvantageous than it seems. Previously, a Bard could stand behind friendly party members and use his ability to good effect - in this case he has to be near the enemies to use it to its fullest potential.

I was thinking of something a little more... wicked than reducing the frequency of the song applying damage. I'm not sure if it's possible, but I may just try to reduce the Bard Song's area effect in radius, as well as reducing the damage to 1d10 instead of 10, and so on for all the others, effectively halving all the damage dealt.

What do you think ?
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Kalindor

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2005, 05:35:26 PM »
I think the proficiency suggestion will work fine.

I was not aware of the limited range of the song. In that case, the movement penalty is a good balance for this class.

Quote
I was thinking of something a little more... wicked than reducing the frequency of the song applying damage. I'm not sure if it's possible, but I may just try to reduce the Bard Song's area effect in radius, as well as reducing the damage to 1d10 instead of 10, and so on for all the others, effectively halving all the damage dealt.

Well, I haven't played with the kit at all, so I will avoid commenting on specific numerical values for the damage. Perhaps you should set it at 1D10 and then playtest the kit for a while to find the sweet spot for the damage. I personally would like it to be balanced for level 1 play, as I am a fan of BGT.  ;D

Kalindor

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2005, 05:36:36 PM »
By the way: Please find a way to prevent tapping of the bard song button to reapply damage because that would just be too tempting!  ;D

Offline Zyraen

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2005, 10:34:54 PM »
Yep, I understand your concern, lol. As for the level 1 play, the Conductor is an ordinary Bard from levels 1-4, originally. At Ghrey's suggestions, the Conductor is just an ordinary Bard from level 1-6 or 1-7 or so.
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Offline underdog

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2005, 10:35:40 AM »
could you make the bard song like a spell with casting time, you start singing, nothing happens for a certain amount of time, like casting a long spell, that way if you keep starting stopping the song no problem, you still have to wait for the 'casting time' for any damage.
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Offline Zyraen

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2005, 08:46:15 PM »
I think I can try, yes :) but after my exams ^^; sorry for the late reply
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Offline yarpen

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2006, 02:31:56 AM »
Hi!

Why you give him profinency bonus? He should focus on lightning and fire magic. You can give him HLA which increase damage made by fire/electricity (in IWD was a necklace Kossuth Blood which made something like that).

Next thing. You should give him purge invisibility when the song starts. Without that, game will be too easy (invisibilty and song...)

Offline Zyraen

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Re: Conductor Kit : Balanced?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2006, 01:21:34 PM »
Good call. BTW, does anyone have the files for this component if I handed out the Demo? I can't find the file :( and it looks like to do it I have to start again from scratch.
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