Quest Pack v2.21 Released!

[SimDing0™]

There are about a million variants of Detectable Spells floating around (much the same as the "fixed" kit.ids files). We're (well, Cam and Cirerrek are) trying to standardise it with a new "official" build, which is what Quest Pack currently uses. I think Oversight may use the new one too, and if not, I imagine Kish will switch in the future. Kelsey's Detectable Spells is largely gratuitous and there's really no great worry about compatibility there.
Incidentally, there were reports coming in from Horred and Avenger that the old versions of DS had some fairly nasty bugs, which is why the new one is incompatible-- it works slightly differently. I never confirmed the issues. And yes, as mentioned, "incompatible" means "the AI gets slightly easier".

All but one build of DS is incompatible with BP, and the other is incompatible with Kelsey, Oversight & Ascension (and will be with RtW in the far future), since they use different states.

Have you updated RTW's Detectable Spells? I know how much you like a good patching system.

[the bigg]

There are about a million variants of Detectable Spells floating around (much the same as the "fixed" kit.ids files). We're (well, Cam and Cirerrek are) trying to standardise it with a new "official" build, which is what Quest Pack currently uses. I think Oversight may use the new one too, and if not, I imagine Kish will switch in the future. Kelsey's Detectable Spells is largely gratuitous and there's really no great worry about compatibility there.

Not entirely true: if Kelsey gets installed after QuestPack, Oversight and so on, you'll get his files, relevant to the 'old' build. The same goes for Ascension.

All but one build of DS is incompatible with BP, and the other is incompatible with Kelsey, Oversight & Ascension (and will be with RtW in the far future), since they use different states.

Have you updated RTW's Detectable Spells? I know how much you like a good patching system.

Well, for now there are other issues (like finishing up the mod), however before getting to the release I'll have to take a month off to make all files patchrific  ; for Detectable spells I'm especially waiting, since you never know when is there going to be another build, and Xyx prefers to distribute BCS rather than BAF files (originally not to have MPrilla read the commented source), hence updating scripts is going to be a bit boring.
As an example, the .d files are largely using EXTEND_BOTTOM/APPENDI synthax instead of CHAIN or INTERJECT for NPC interjecting in the dialogue flow, the crew really needs some winds of modernity 

[SimDing0™]

Well, Quest Pack should definitely be installed after Kelsey (or his interjects won't work), and ideally after Ascension too, since I don't trust its coding. And here's hoping that Oversight has the newer version. In any case, I maintain that "don't worry about it" is the best resolution to the issue for now.

As an example, the .d files are largely using EXTEND_BOTTOM/APPENDI synthax instead of CHAIN or INTERJECT for NPC interjecting in the dialogue flow, the crew really needs some winds of modernity 

Out of interest, are you guys still inputting TRAs manually?

[the bigg]

As an example, the .d files are largely using EXTEND_BOTTOM/APPENDI synthax instead of CHAIN or INTERJECT for NPC interjecting in the dialogue flow, the crew really needs some winds of modernity

Out of interest, are you guys still inputting TRAs manually?

I don't know - Quitch does the writing, and Littiz the .d coding 
However, we have a tool which would create a TRA out of a RTF file containing the dialogue and coding instructions.
The TRA directory is 775 Kb if we don't count setup.tra, while the D directory is over 2 Mb (PS-T level pathing doesn't help, of course).
(as a comparison, Kelsey TOB has 330 Kb in TRA and 147 Kb in D; even the 'old' Kelsey SoA is 330 Kb in D and 303 Kb in TRA)

[Littiz]

As an example, the .d files are largely using EXTEND_BOTTOM/APPENDI synthax instead of CHAIN or INTERJECT for NPC interjecting in the dialogue flow, the crew really needs some winds of modernity

Bah!
You don't know what you're talking about.

In Quitch's dialogues, checks are everywhere.
I tried mixing some CHAIN commands and so (in the last dialogue you blew up ): the gain is almost NULL, while readability and chances of bugs raise up to +infinity.

RtW's .d coding requires time for the checks and the pathing, anything else is insignificant in comparison.
Better to go down the fully tested way.
An example?
The Garren dialogue I'm fixing right now.

In an occasion, the player gets a chance to ask a dozen of questions or more, I don't remember.
Each question itself can have a very complicated check-construction and complex branching.
The answer, provided you get one, redirects directly to the list of possible questions, rather than to an handy middle state (!).
Also, you can't never ask the same question twice, you are limited in the TOTAL amount of information you can get (you can't ask all of the important questions, but you can always ask for a different set), and, as if it weren't enough, you might even be under the influence of a "timer".

This hell of a questions section required something on the line of 5000 lines of code (meaning: of intricated and interwoven checks).
And you talk about CHAIN? 
()

[SimDing0™]

The answer, provided you get one, redirects directly to the list of possible questions, rather than to an handy middle state (!).

I think this is an excellent example of a situation in which some basic adjustments to dialogue design can massively improve coding efficiency. You're obviously aware that simply adding in a middle state to give time for variables to take effect would hugely simplify the scenario you mention-- the question is, does it really kill the writing that much to have an intermediate "so what's your next question?" state? This is also, incidentally, one of the reasons I've always found it easier to code directly into D rather than writing everything out first: it makes for easier adaptation if something turns out inconvenient to code. (It also means I regularly get lost in my own dialogues, but let's not talk about that.)

[the bigg]

Littiz:
Yeah, I'm fully aware of that (I've downloaded and peeked at the dialogue which I made go kaboom, among other things) 
However, nevermind the fact that you'd be saving at most 200 lines over several thousands, once we release ( ) everybody and their mother is going to cry out loud for the use of APPENDI over APPEND, the non-usage of CHAIN/INTERJECT synthax, and the generations of future modders who are going to learn from our coding style.

AND, you never made a joke about my unnecessary tp2 fetish, right? 

Ding0:
The problem is that, with the current timetables, it would be quicker for Littiz to code all the more complex dialogue rather than getting Quitch to coordinate and revise it.

[SimDing0™]

Then I genuinely admire Littiz's patience.

[the bigg]

Then I genuinely admire Littiz's patience.

Given that he has cooperated with me without killing me (and I have just deleted a week ago all his work on RtW since april  ) I cannot but agree.

[SimDing0™]

Amidst all this, I've uploaded v2.21 which should really really really fix the installation issue (and also solves the Keto bug). If there's something hugely wrong with this one, I'm going to mod Quake 3.

[Caedwyr]

I'm still looking forward to the Unreal Tournament: TC that was promise a while back by certain group of individuals.  Any word on how that is progressing?

[flem]

For some reason I now can't get 2.2 to uninstall itself...  (Says it's too old/new.)

Huh.  Maybe time for a big wipe/fresh install.

[Bursk]

Amidst all this, I've uploaded v2.21 which should really really really fix the installation issue (and also solves the Keto bug). If there's something hugely wrong with this one, I'm going to mod Quake 3.

Sim, before you lose all hope and start modding Quake 3, please try to do that 'BG1 SUMMONING SPELLS' component we talked about for D0Tweak! 

Hehe.

[SimDing0™]

I spoke to Ghrey and he said something about putting it in AoE.

[Bursk]

Oooh, good stuff. 

[Bursk]

Kish has confirmed that Oversight does use the new version of Detectable Spells.

[Quitch]

This "official" DS, is it going to branch off as a seperate project?  It really should.  If mods keep including DS that's just a road to things breaking.  Far better that it be a mod which you always install last.

[the bigg]

This "official" DS, is it going to branch off as a seperate project? It really should. If mods keep including DS that's just a road to things breaking. Far better that it be a mod which you always install last.

Not last, first. You want the entries in stats.ids.
However, IIRC the new Fixpack (in secretive progress at G3) should contain exactly that as part of the 'modder friendly' component (and if it does not already, please add this  ).

[SimDing0™]

Yes, the "modder friendly" component of the Fixpack should contain it. I'd rather it be a compulsory part of the core install, personally.

[the man with the plan]

I don't know if this is Quest Pack territory, but since you have altered some 'bosses'...

Is it possible to stop all the dragons from ever using haste? The effects ingame don't concern me, its the fact that they look so damn stupid hasted, spoiling the awesomeness factor of dragon fights. Any winged creature flapping its wings that fast would take off.

[SimDing0™]

I was planning to do something about dragons at some point, and yeh, I'll make sure they don't use things that look stupid like Haste or Mirror Image.

[MoonElf]

I like the way they look when hasted.