Author Topic: Crashing in Beregost  (Read 27801 times)

Terraism

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Crashing in Beregost
« on: August 14, 2005, 12:19:51 PM »
Hi, all.  I'm having some difficulty with the game crashing every time I enter Beregost after Chapter 3 has started.  I'm guessing it has to do with the spawns, but... [shrugs.]  No idea, beyond that.  I tried uninstalling/reinstalling, and it hasn't helped.  I'm currently running:

- Tuto v6 (with built-in fixpack)
- TutoGUI
- Sirine's Call
- IndiNPC
- Finch
- BG1NPC
- TutoTweaks
- Ashes of Embers (only the sensible weapons/wizard slayer bits.
- One Pixel Production (BG1 Avatars)

I've tried CLUA-ing into Beregost, as well.  Same crash.  I can, however, CLUA into buildings inside Beregost.  Unfortunately, none of the new NPCs (the captain lady, or the fellow upstairs in Feldepost's,) are there, which is making continuing difficult.  I'm going to try spawning the needed NPCs for now, but if someone has an idea how to fix this, I'd be much obliged.

Offline seanas

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2005, 09:06:20 AM »
you lot have probably already seen it, but there's a possible solution to the Beregost crash here.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2005, 01:15:17 PM »
That's all well and good, except for the fact that Tutu Beregost only has fw3300 listed, and none of its auxiliary areas.
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Offline Ascension64

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2005, 05:25:59 PM »
I thought that would have been the case after I posted over there.  I'd like to know a little more specifically about how the CTDs occur in Tutu.  Do they occur during master area transitions (e.g. Beregost to Lathander Temple)?  Do they occur entering Beregost interiors?  Any patterns, such as the game stutters I mention?

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2005, 02:07:28 AM »
I honestly have no idea.  I've never been able to recreate it, myself.  I think someone once mentioned it having to do with ambient sounds, but I couldn't figure anything out about that.  Specifically exiting Beregost via the bottom center, or going east from the smithy.
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Offline Kulyok

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2005, 02:19:07 AM »
If it helps:

I was playing around with Beregost area a lot when testing BG1 NPC, and the only time I managed to produce a crash was when:
1) Nashkel mines quest completed, chapter 3 started;
2) Reward from the mayor of Nashkel not received;
3) Tranzig killed, bandit camp area should be added to the map.

After these three, the game crashed upon leaving Beregost, and I could not reload that save.

However, upon getting rid of factor 2) (talking to the mayor of Nashkel, giving him the proof and getting the reward), OR factor 3) (not killing Tranzig yet) OR getting the reward, killing Tranzig and proceeding the normal way -- the crash was eliminated.

I've no idea what that means, though.

Offline Ascension64

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2005, 12:25:08 AM »
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to reproduce such a crash in Tutu or BGT-WeiDU.  Such a fickle thing those crashes...

domi_ash

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2005, 04:08:21 PM »
I think they are random. I played TUTU in and out for a year, before getting my first crash in Beregost, and then it repeated a couple of times. Go figure.

Offline Ascension64

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2005, 05:38:59 PM »
Well, it is safe to say the BG2 engine treats every area the same way, depending on the code inside the area, and several 2DA files.  That the game is crashing in Beregost and pretty much no other area, I do not think is a random event.  But if it turns out so elusive that the bug cannot ever be solved, then I will settle for random.

Offline Macready

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2006, 08:10:15 AM »
Hello -

On the subject of Beregost crashes, I was able to locate an ambient referenced in FW3300 that isn't actually an existing resource: _MB_E05C, which is the first of the six or so bird sound resources that are grouped together (under ambient 4, if I recall).

I will say that I do not believe it is an issue with ambient sounds.  The crash behavior I am experiencing doesn't support that theory (at least IMO).

I've kept a Beregost save game that crashes on load, if anyone wants it for testing.  I tinker with it now and again when I'm bored.  So far, the only way I have been able to "fix" the savegame (and I use "fix" in the loosest possible sense) is to decompress the .SAV, overwrite the saved FW3300 with a virgin copy from my Tutu override folder, recompress the .SAV, and then load the game.  This causes Beregost to act as if you're just visiting for the first time (e.g., Golin Vend approaches and gives his little speech), but it does allow the savegame to be loaded.  So something about that saved FW3300 is to blame.
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Offline Ascension64

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2006, 07:37:35 PM »
I checked the save game corruption out and there seems to be consistent CRE data corruption in the associated ARE file in BALDUR.SAV that prevents the game loading.  It, however, doesn't extrapolate do on-the-fly crashes, however.

Offline Macready

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2006, 08:00:59 PM »
Hello -

I checked the save game corruption out and there seems to be consistent CRE data corruption in the associated ARE file in BALDUR.SAV that prevents the game loading.

What CREs?  The actors in the area?

Quote
It, however, doesn't extrapolate do on-the-fly crashes, however.

I don't know what this sentence means.

My experience of the crashes is this (with 100% consistency): I enter Beregost.  I do various errands (sell loot, sleep at inn, etc).  I leave.  When I exit, the auto-save triggers.  Then the new area loads.  A split second after I can see the new area and my character in it, the game crashes.  Further, the recently created auto-save inside Beregost is corrupt.  I never actually crash while IN Beregost; always immediately after having left.  However, this doesn't happen upon every visit to Beregost -- only some of the time.  I haven't been able to establish a pattern or correlation between my actions in town and the occurrence of crashes upon exiting.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2006, 08:03:34 PM by Macready »
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Offline Ascension64

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2006, 03:13:12 AM »
Yes, the actors in the area.  More specifically, one specific detail about one actor in the area that you have to pick apart to discover.  The extrapolation I mean that the corrupted data doesn't appear in the area file that is installed when you install TuTu.

Offline cmorgan

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2006, 03:56:01 PM »
I know that this topic is addressed multiple ways on multipe boards -- so far with puzzling results. To help you masters of modding (MoMs?!) track this --

On both a standard and an EasyTutu install, with or without fixpacks, etc., mods/no mods - basically every combination possible in the past two years, I have had the described Beregost crash both before and after clearing the mines. I have mirrored Macready's "halt-on-loading-then-saves-corrupt" experience; only once has there been a crash while INSIDE Beregost. On that crash, I went into an inn at night and came out during the day. The CTD occurred when loading the town.

I have not been able to systematically recreate the crash once I found a save that worked. Beginning from the same save point before the crash and replicating movement/dialogue choices/party joinings has produced random results; crash or notcrash seem to be equal in frequency.

A non-scientific approach that has reduced the frequency of crashes pretty dramatically has been to turn off EAX and ambient sounds before entering B, not saving and avoiding resting in B, and exiting B only through the N and W sides of the map (basically, all of the advice on three forums all at once). This has produced four complete runs from new character through the end of Cloakwood Mines using multiple NPC combinations and clearing 70% of the Sword Coast with no Beregost crashes. 'Course, couda just bin lucky...

Offline Miloch

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2006, 12:42:46 PM »
On the subject of Beregost crashes, I was able to locate an ambient referenced in FW3300 that isn't actually an existing resource: _MB_E05C, which is the first of the six or so bird sound resources that are grouped together (under ambient 4, if I recall).

I will say that I do not believe it is an issue with ambient sounds.  The crash behavior I am experiencing doesn't support that theory (at least IMO).
I noticed the same thing and I would tend to agree it seems unlikely to be the source of the problem: a) the same nonexistent resource is referenced in vanilla BG1 and b) ditto for other areas in Tutu (North Nashkel Road FW4300 for example).

But has anyone ruled it out, e.g. by assigning it to an existing resource, removing it or creating an ambient for it?  Might as well cross it off the list of "possible causes" (as Sherlock Holmes would say, when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth).

More specifically, one specific detail about one actor in the area that you have to pick apart to discover.
And has anyone done this?  I will if I have to but I don't want to duplicate work that's already been done.  I couldn't find anything in a cursory glance over the actors, but then I guess I don't really know what to look for either.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to reproduce such a crash in Tutu or BGT-WeiDU.  Such a fickle thing those crashes...
I've hit the crashes several times, pretty much under the same conditions discussed above.  It is seemingly random, but not rare by any means.  Have others hit it in BGT?

The reason I'm bringing all this up again (aside from the fact I find the crashes personally annoying :-\) is I've noticed on other forums people are unwilling to try Tutu on account of this "documented feature" and in some cases have even reverted to vanilla BG1 after using Tutu and experiencing this.

Offline berelinde

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2006, 01:21:45 PM »
The reason I'm bringing all this up again (aside from the fact I find the crashes personally annoying :-\) is I've noticed on other forums people are unwilling to try Tutu on account of this "documented feature" and in some cases have even reverted to vanilla BG1 after using Tutu and experiencing this.

Are you serious?

Doesn't anyone remember the bad old days of home computing when crashes were a routine annoyance, and could be counted on to ruin your term paper three times out of four?

I'm not trying to sound like a crusty old geezer sitting in a rocking chair and saying "When I was a child, we walked to school, 12 miles, through 3 feet of snow, uphill, both ways."

 I'm just saying that a crash that happens one time in a hundred shouldn't prevent anyone from installing a great upgrade. Major heartache can always be avoided by careful saving practices.

Offline Miloch

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2006, 02:57:51 PM »
Are you serious?
Yes.
Quote
Doesn't anyone remember the bad old days of home computing when crashes were a routine annoyance, and could be counted on to ruin your term paper three times out of four?
*cough* Yes... and thank you oh so much for reminding me. :P
Quote
I'm just saying that a crash that happens one time in a hundred shouldn't prevent anyone from installing a great upgrade.
I agree.  I didn't say *I* was one of these people against it... just reporting what I observe.  Unfortunately I have a stubborn persistance combined with a dangerous lack of knowledge that means I'll keep hammering away at this sucker and never crack it. ::)
Quote
Major heartache can always be avoided by careful saving practices.
Yes and I've said that too.  Believe me, I'm trying to convert these heathens and bring them into the fold, not turn them away. :D  But I guess some people are even more stubborn than me.

The fact that this happens only in a single area (for the most part) and across platforms (I grepped SHS and found the same issue among BGT users) makes my fingers itch even more.  Has anyone considered that maybe there are just too many (doors, actors, fill in the blank) in this area, perhaps causing some sort of hardcoded buffer to be overrun, thus corrupting files and crashing the game?  Just speculating.  Not sure what sort of debugging tool that could capture that sort of thing would even operate on the engine.

Offline Ascension64

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2006, 05:28:38 PM »
Quote
Has anyone considered that maybe there are just too many (doors, actors, fill in the blank) in this area, perhaps causing some sort of hardcoded buffer to be overrun, thus corrupting files and crashing the game?  Just speculating.  Not sure what sort of debugging tool that could capture that sort of thing would even operate on the engine.
Well, you could always try deleting all the non-important actors in the area (which I think is all the actors anyway) and playing through a number of times. That would clear up quite a lot of info in the ARE file. However, some AREs are bigger in file size than Beregost, especially some BGII ones, so I don't think that would fix the problem.

Offline Miloch

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2006, 08:21:34 PM »
Grr...

Must... Kill... Bereghost...

I think I've done it actually.  Sometimes brute stubbornness pays off.  Even moved the fix across two different Tutu installations and several save games, replicating the crashes without the fix and no crashes with the fix.

*blink*

I'm not going to tell you what I went through to figure it out but I went through a lot.  Most of it involved a few dozen instances of Near Infinity, EasyTutu, the tip from Ascension64 about a suspicious actor, a dodgy saved game prone to crashing, the Roman policy of "divide and conquer" and half a bottle of wine.  I need a break from the screen and the rest of that wine, then I'll post some details. :D

Offline berelinde

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2006, 08:35:40 PM »
Well drink up, man! I want to hear what you did!

Offline Miloch

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2006, 10:30:05 PM »
Ok, well I went through a lot more than this to find the problem but you don't want to hear about that... seriously.  You just want to fix the problem, right?

Edit: 15 December 2006
Thanks to Ascension64, we have a "saved game fixer" that should restore any saved game prone to crashing without noticeable data loss.

This is the procedure for fixing a saved game corrupted by a Beregost crash.  "Game folder" means the folder where you've installed EasyTutu, Tutu, BGT or BG1.
1. Back up the saved game you want to fix (by copying and pasting the folder somewhere else).
2. Download SETUP-Crashfix.tp2 and save it in your game folder.
3. Download WeiDU.exe (or copy an existing WeiDU or a mod's .exe) and rename it SETUP-Crashfix.exe in your game folder.
4. Load up Near Infinity in your game folder.
5. Expand the Save folder and expand the saved game to be fixed.
6. Click on BALDUR.SAV and Decompress it.
(http://sony.dynalias.com/bg/savfix1.gif)
7. Toggle to your game folder in your OS (e.g. with Windows Explorer).  There should now be a subfolder containing your decompressed saved game files (e.g. C:\Games\EasyTutu\_000000001-Test1\).
8. Locate the file FW3300.ARE (or AR6700.ARE for BGT or AR3300.ARE for BG1) in this subfolder.  Copy and paste it one level up in your main game folder.
9. Run SETUP-Crashfix.exe.  If you've done everything correctly, you get a message indicating a successful fix and the Crash Fixer uninstalls itself.
10. Copy the fixed FW3300.ARE and paste it into your temporary decompressed subfolder (the one starting with an underscore).
11. Toggle back to Near Infinity and Compress to rebuild the .SAV file (click Overwrite, OK when prompted).
12. Close Near Infinity and fire up Tutu (or BGT or BG1).
13. Enjoy a crash-free Beregost.  Visit the many pubs.  Order a round for the house at each one.

Technically, what happens in a Beregost-crashing saved game is that a random creature in the area experiences mage spell memorization corruption in its level 5 slot (we don't know how, as yet).  What the Crash Fixer does is looks for such corruption and if it finds it, zeroes it out.  This isn't a problem data-wise, since it affects only NPCs in the area.  The highest level NPC able to cast mage spells is Silke, and she can only cast up to level 4.

After this fix, I haven't been able to reproduce the crash, but do let us know if you experience a recurrence.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 02:59:31 AM by Miloch »

Offline Macready

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2006, 10:54:52 PM »
Hello -

Hopefully you are right -- it would certainly be nice to put this glitch to bed.

Please do post if you try this and are still able to break the game.
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Offline berelinde

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2006, 10:57:32 PM »
Give me time. I'll manage it.

Offline Ascension64

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2006, 06:07:01 AM »
I haven't physically tested it, but I don't think that fixes the problem permanently. A few of the savegames I've 'collected' over recent years that have crashes while loading Beregost have an actor corruption, but not in the same actor --- one day it might be an Eagle, and another day it might be a Commoner. Here are three instances where I've reported the corruption in AR6700.ARE (this is the BGT version of the area, but it happens similarly in Tutu's FW3300.ARE):

[01]kharan5876
AR6700.ARE - corrupt Actor 23 spell memorization level 5 for MTOWBE at (3092,2388)
hex offset 0x7d64 reads: ff ff 01 12

[02]kharan5876
AR6700.ARE - corrupt Actor 3 spell memorization level 5 for EAGLE at (3732,1300)
hex offset 0x2974 reads: b7 00 00 00

[01]Holod
AR6700.ARE - corrupt Actor 12 spell memorization level 5 for MTOWBE_B at (3535,2873)
hex offset 0x4f28 reads: ff ff 01 12

I think I've reported this a long time ago, but the corruption in the save game always occurs at the spell memorization level 5 slot. And to repeat another thing, it doesn't help us prevent the crashes happening in the first place. It does, however, allow us to manually fix savegames that become corrupted.

P.S. Miloch, you might want to check that the corruption occurs in spell memorization level 5.

Offline Miloch

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Re: Crashing in Beregost
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2006, 10:13:13 AM »
Yes, the corruption is in spell level slot 5.  Why didn't you say you'd found this out earlier? :P  Instead of Spell level: 5, Type: Wizard (1) it has become Spell level: 16399, Type: Unknown (8228).

So what could be causing a corruption on a random CRE/actor in a particular slot in a particular area (but only in most cases, when moving from that area to another)? ???

I really thought it was an EAGLE at first.  They fit the pattern, by introducing a random element via the RANDFLY script.  The first game I had that crashed really bad (wouldn't even load on startup) gave me an error "Actor #2 (EAGLE [5220.1642]) is out of map' in DLTCEP.  But I guess that's normal behaviour for an eagle since they fly onscreen from off the map.  Anyway, removing the eagle (even all 3 of them) had no effect, and they're present in other areas, so I discarded that theory.

I get some other errors about invalid door opening messages but I assume that's immaterial too since I get it when loading other areas.  And I get this sort of thing when running NI in batch (or using the debug console):
Code: [Select]
Hole: BALDUR.GAM off: 54h len: 96
Hole: BALDUR.GAM off: 174h len: 1920
Hole: BALDUR.GAM off: 1444h len: 29764
Hole: BALDUR.GAM off: 8948h len: 15296
Hole: BALDUR.GAM off: d0dch len: 105440
Hole: BALDUR.GAM off: 2cc5ch len: 400

Is that normal?  I get it even when looking at the standard BALDUR.GAM template (at least the first couple offsets).  If I try opening that in DLTCEP I get "Game loaded with errors (corrected)."  Be nice to know what it considered to be errors, but the log shows nothing.  I do notice in NI the "Non-player characters" section has the same character a bunch of times and no others (a seemingly random character, could be Kivan on one game, Montaron on another) and this may be what DLTCEP fixes, since I have a list of different NPCs when I load the .GAM file.

Any ideas?  The truth is out there...

 

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