Author Topic: I am interested in any and all criticism!  (Read 100443 times)

Offline Drelnza

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 10
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #125 on: March 31, 2010, 03:51:16 AM »
Download (and extract and overwrite on top of your questpack folder)

Temujin thank you very much for putting this together. You are a star :-)

Fennekl

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #126 on: April 11, 2010, 06:16:26 AM »
I encountered this problem when installing. Is this linked with the fixes? Or is it something that is not linked with them at all? Then something got wrong because of what do I know... ???

### 0010: Revised Hell Trials ###
Setup-d0questpack.exe --noautoupdate --language 0 --skip-at-view --force-install-list 10 --logapp
[Setup-d0questpack.exe] WeiDU version 21500
[Setup-d0questpack.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
Using Language [English]

Installing [Revised Hell Trials]
Checking for forbidden files ...
Copying and patching 21 files ...
Copying and patching 5 files ...
Copying and patching 5 files ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Copying 1 file ...
Compiling 2 scripts ...
Extending game scripts ...
Extending game scripts ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Compiling 1 script ...
Extending game scripts ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
WARNING: cannot find block matching [questpack/helltest/data/d6a_1.baf]
Compiling 4 dialogue files ...


[dialog.tlk] created, 302891 string entries
[dialogf.tlk] created, 302891 string entries

INSTALLED WITH WARNINGS Revised Hell Trials

C:\BGT\BGII - SoA>WARNING: cannot find block matching [questpack/helltest/data/d6a_1.baf]
WARNING: REPLACE specifies no WEIGHT for state 19 and DLG uses non-trivial weights. Using weight from DLG (1). [4]
INSTALLED WITH WARNINGS Revised Hell Trials
Revised Hell Trials (Ding0's Quest Pack v2.3) was installed with warnings.

Offline Drelnza

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 10
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #127 on: April 11, 2010, 07:19:11 AM »
Does your d6a_1.baf look like this?

IF
    OpenState("DOOR06",TRUE)
    Global("OpenedDoor4","AR2904",1)  //this is the line you need to add
    Global("OpenedDoor5","AR2904",0)
    Global("OpenedDoor6","AR2904",0)

If not you may need to edit some .baf files, see here:  http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=8676

Offline Drelnza

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 10
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #128 on: April 11, 2010, 09:34:39 AM »
I have just installed the quest pack, extracted Temujin's awesome fixes....checked all 4 .baf files mentioned here http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=8676
 and all is well :-)

Thanks again Temujin!!!

Fennek

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #129 on: April 12, 2010, 02:21:47 PM »
Hm, I tried a new install and everything went fine, the fixes worked.  ;D
I have no idea what went wrong the first time. Maybe it was due to another mod compilation. No idea if a change in the mod compilation can make a difference for the fixes or the BWP-fixpack.

temujin.

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #130 on: April 12, 2010, 04:15:13 PM »
I have no idea what went wrong the first time. Maybe it was due to another mod compilation.
I was about to ask if you can do a --change-log on ar2904.bcs, but I guess it's too late now...
It might be that other Nalia mod.  As I mentioned before, I didn't include that fix (which is in the _depends subdirectory in the BWP fixpack) at that time because the patch (made by BWP) back then was conflicting with the alternate patch (also made by BWP), so I wasn't too keen on troubleshooting one buggy mod with another, apparently even more buggy (according to BWP's own words) mod.


If not you may need to edit some .baf files, see here:  http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=8676

I think there's a tiny mistake in ronin's fix.  He added the missing trigger to the search blocks, but forgot to also include them in the replacement blocks.

What does that mean?

It means his fix will suppress the REPLACE_BCS_BLOCK warnings, but it doesn't actually retain the fixes applied earlier by the BG2 fixpack.  In other words, the whatever bug/exploit the Fixpack claims to have fixed to ar2904.bcs will be erased by this patch.  I'm a little sleepy at the moment, so maybe I'm missing something...

Fennek

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #131 on: April 13, 2010, 03:27:07 PM »
Quote
I was about to ask if you can do a --change-log on ar2904.bcs, but I guess it's too late now...

I'm testing the new BWS beta so I still have the installation for bug-tracking.

Installation with problem:
[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 21500
[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
override/ar2904.bcs
override/AR2904.BCS
override/ar2904.bcs scs/backup/3090/ar2904.bcs
override/ar2904.bcs questpack/backup/10/ar2904.bcs



Mods affecting AR2904.BCS:
00000: /* from game biffs */ ~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ 0 0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: v9.01
00001: /* from game biffs */ ~WORGAS/WORGAS.TP2~ 0 0 // Worgas: Beta v1.1
00002: ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ 0 3090 // Prevent party members from dying irreversibly: v14
00003: ~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ 0 10 // Revised Hell Trials: v2.3 (Feb 14, 2010)


Installation without the problem:

[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 21500
[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
override/ar2904.bcs
override/AR2904.BCS worgas\backup/0/AR2904.BCS
override/ar2904.bcs questpack/backup/10/ar2904.bcs
override/ar2904.bcs scsII/backup/4050/ar2904.bcs



Mods affecting AR2904.BCS:
00000: /* from game biffs */ ~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ 0 0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: v9.01 BW Fixpack
00001: ~WORGAS/WORGAS.TP2~ 0 0 // Worgas: Beta v1.1
00002: ~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ 0 10 // Revised Hell Trials: v2.3 (Feb 14, 2010)
00003: ~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ 0 4050 // Make party members less likely to die irreversibly: v13 BW Fixpack


Is this of help? I'm not sure if SCSI did anything... I can also provide a weidu.log.

temujin.

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2010, 05:01:21 PM »
Looks like this is caused by SCS I.


here's your problem -->  00002: ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ 0 3090 // Prevent party members from dying irreversibly: v14


scs/misc/nochunk.tph

Code: [Select]
  COPY_EXISTING ~ar2904.bcs~ ~override~
DECOMPILE_BCS_TO_BAF
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY CASE_INSENSITIVE ~ReallyForceSpell(Player2,HELL_EXPLODE)~ ~ReallyForceSpell(Player2,HELL_EXPLODE) ActionOverride(Player2,LeaveParty()) Wait(1)~
COMPILE_BAF_TO_BCS
BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES

what happens is that SCS I modifies this BG2 area script (it shouldn't be doing this IMO) which happens to be in the search block that questpack also looks for.  The same code also exists in SCS II (scsii/misc/nochunk.tph), so it's likely DavidW simply copy-pasted his own code from one mod to another.

The reason you didn't get this bug on your second attempt is that you installed the SCS II version of that component, and also that you installed it after the questpack (which is the correct way of doing this).

Fennek

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2010, 05:28:12 PM »
Great, Problem solved! ;D

In a test install (this time normal BWP) I encountered this:

Installing [Nazariel The Lich]
Checking for forbidden files ...
Copying and patching 21 files ...
Copying and patching 5 files ...
Copying and patching 5 files ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Appending to files ...
Copying and patching 5 files ...
Copying and patching 5 files ...

[action list near line 10515, column 2 of jaheiraj.dlg] PARSE WARNING at line 10516 column 1-20
Near Text: )
[Shout] argument [ESCAPE_AREA_2] not found in [SHOUTIDS.IDS]

[action list near line 10527, column 2 of jaheiraj.dlg] PARSE WARNING at line 10528 column 1-20
Near Text: )
[Shout] argument [ESCAPE_AREA_2] not found in [SHOUTIDS.IDS]

[action list near line 10539, column 2 of jaheiraj.dlg] PARSE WARNING at line 10540 column 1-20
Near Text: )
[Shout] argument [ESCAPE_AREA_2] not found in [SHOUTIDS.IDS]

[action list near line 2116, column 2 of viconij.dlg] PARSE WARNING at line 2122 column 1-19
Near Text: )
[Shout] argument [INCOMING_111] not found in [SHOUTIDS.IDS]
Compiling 1 dialogue file ...
Copying 1 file ...
Extending game scripts ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Copying and patching 2 files ...
Compiling 4 scripts ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Appending to files ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Copying 1 file ...

(Did not get this problem on the weekend...)


I am just guessing: Is the Super Happy Modder component from the Bg2Fixpack necessary or at least a part of the code for the BWP fixpack (?) ???

temujin.

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #134 on: April 13, 2010, 06:31:22 PM »

Ich habe immer, immer die Modder Pack installieren (egal, was jemand sagt!  >:( >:(), aber natürlich sollten Sie nicht meinem Beispiel folgen.



what i mean to say is,

both ESCAPE_AREA_2 and INCOMING_111 don't exist in any dialog or script in this mod.  so they must be coming from somewhere else.

can you do a --change-log on shoutids.ids, jaheiraj.dlg and viconij.dlg?

Fennek

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #135 on: April 14, 2010, 02:39:05 PM »
O.K., here we go:

[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 21500
[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
override/SHOUTIDS.IDS TDD/backup/0/SHOUTIDS.IDS
override/shoutids.ids gminion\build1.8\backup/0/shoutids.ids


Mods affecting SHOUTIDS.IDS:
00000: ~SETUP-TDD.TP2~ 0 0 // The Darkest Day,  v1.13: v1.13 BW Fixpack
00001: ~SETUP-GMINION.TP2~ 0 0 // gMinion v1.8: v1.8 BGT-expansion_v2




[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 21500
[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.DLG BGT/Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.DLG
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/1/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/9/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/12/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/14/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/200/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Mur'Neth/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg gavin/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg gavin/backup/1/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg bg1ub/backup/19/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg emad\Backup/3/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg DC\Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Assassinations/Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg TotDG\backup/1/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg amber/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Tsujatha\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg aD&L\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg C#Ajantis_SvA\Install\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg tashia/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Kivan/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Fade\Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Kido\Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Ariena\Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Kindrek\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Star\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Yasraena\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg alora\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg AurenAseph/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg TheUndying/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Angelo/Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg vampiretales/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Nikita/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg touched\Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg ninde/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg xulaye/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg haldamir/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Saerileth\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg worgas\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg TyrisFlare/Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg allison/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg deArnise/Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Chloe/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg iepbanters/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg ImoenRom/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Alcool\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg BranwenNPC/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg ub/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg ub/backup/18/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg homewardbound/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg solarom/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg kelsey\Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg keto\Backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg Kiara-Zaiya\backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg npcflirt\Backup/4/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg npcflirt\Backup/5/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg RevisedBattles/backup/9/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg questpack/backup/6/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg questpack/backup/8/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/jaheiraj.dlg questpack/backup/19/jaheiraj.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg alternatives/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg G3Anniversary/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg RR/BACKUP/7/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg RR/BACKUP/11/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/JAHEIRAJ.DLG xpmod/backup/11/JAHEIRAJ.DLG
override/JAHEIRAJ.dlg aurora/backup/0/JAHEIRAJ.dlg
override/jaheiraj.dlg aurora/backup/247/jaheiraj.dlg


Mods affecting JAHEIRAJ.DLG:
00000: /* from game biffs */ ~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ 0 0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: v9.01 BW Fixpack
00001: ~SETUP-BGT.TP2~ 0 0 // Baldur's Gate Trilogy - Core: 1.08 (16 Mar 10)
00002: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 0 // The BG1 NPC Project: Required Modifications: v18
00003: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 1 // The BG1 NPC Project: Banters, Quests, and Interjections: v18
00004: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 9 // The BG1 NPC Project: Ajantis Romance Core (teen content): v18
00005: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 12 // The BG1 NPC Project: Dynaheir's Romance Core (teen content): v18
00006: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 14 // The BG1 NPC Project: Xan's Romance Core (teen content): v18
00007: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 200 // The BG1 NPC Project: Player-Initiated Dialogues: v18
00008: ~MUR'NETH.TP2~ 0 0 // The Mur'Neth NPC mod for Baldur's Gate Tutu or Baldur's Gate Trilogy-WeiDU
00009: ~GAVIN/GAVIN.TP2~ 0 0 // Gavin NPC for Tutu and BGT, 14April2008: v3.1 BW Fixpack
00010: ~GAVIN/GAVIN.TP2~ 0 1 // Gavin: Romance (mature content): v3.1 BW Fixpack
00011: ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ 0 19 // Minor Dialogue Restorations: 11
00012: ~EMAD/SETUP-EMAD.TP2~ 0 3 // Under Her Spell: v4
00013: ~DC/SETUP-DC.TP2~ 0 0 // Dungeon Crawl, v5
00014: ~ASSASSINATIONS/SETUP-ASSASSINATIONS.TP2~ 0 0 // Assassinations mod for Baldur's Gate II, v7
00015: ~TOTDG/SETUP-TOTDG.TP2~ 0 1 // NPC Reactions (Aerie, Viconia, Jaheira, Anomen, Haer'Dalis, Keldorn)
00016: ~SETUP-AMBER.TP2~ 0 0 // Amber the NPC MOD for BGII:SoA: v2.5
00017: ~TSUJATHA/SETUP-TSUJATHA.TP2~ 0 0 // Tsujatha (BG2:SoA NPC) created by Sillara of the Tamari: v13
00018: ~SETUP-BTL.TP2~ 0 0 // Beyond the Law - Kova & Kiyone
00019: ~C#AJANTIS_SVA/SETUP-C#AJANTIS_SVA.TP2~ 1 0 // Sir Ajantis NPC for BGII-SoA: open Beta 0.2.20 BW Fixpack
00020: ~SETUP-TASHIA.TP2~ 0 0 // Tashia NPC Mod -> Full version (ToB required): v1.1
00021: ~SETUP-KIVAN.TP2~ 0 0 // Kivan of Shilmista: v9
00022: ~SETUP-FADE.TP2~ 0 0 // Fade: An NPC for Baldur's Gate II
00023: ~SETUP-KIDO.TP2~ 0 0 // Kido the Jester (Requires Throne of Bhaal)
00024: ~SETUP-ARIENA.TP2~ 0 0 // Ariena the Half-orc (Requires Throne of Bhaal)
00025: ~SETUP-KINDREK.TP2~ 0 0 // Kindrek v2.4 (BG2:SoA & TOB NPC) created by nethrin
00026: ~STAR.TP2~ 0 0 // SilverStar Mod
00027: ~YASRAENA/SETUP-YASRAENA.TP2~ 0 0 // Yasraena (BG2:SoA & TOB NPC) created by nethrin & Sillara of the Tamari: v11
00028: ~SETUP-ALORA.TP2~ 0 0 // Chosen of Mystra's Alora NPC Mod (Requires Throne of Bhaal): 1.1
00029: ~AURENASEPH/SETUP-AURENASEPH.TP2~ 0 0 // Auren Aseph V6.2 for BG2:ToB
00030: ~SETUP-THEUNDYING.TP2~ 0 0 //  "The Undying" Mod (Requires Throne of Bhaal)
00031: ~ANGELO/SETUP-ANGELO.TP2~ 0 0 // Angelo NPC MOD for Baldur's Gate II, v3
00032: ~SETUP-VAMPIRETALES.TP2~ 0 0 // Vampire Tales (Requires Throne of Bhaal)
00033: ~SETUP-NIKITA.TP2~ 0 0 // Nikitalleria NPC Mod (Requires Throne of Bhaal)
00034: ~TOUCHED/SETUP-TOUCHED.TP2~ 0 0 // Touch the Moon NPC (Requires Throne of Bhaal)
00035: ~NINDE/NINDE.TP2~ 0 0 // Ninde NPC Mod for BGII: SoA: v1.1
00036: ~XULAYE/XULAYE.TP2~ 0 0 // Xulaye NPC Mod for BG2:SoA
00037: ~HALDAMIR/SETUP-HALDAMIR.TP2~ 0 0 // Haldamir: 0.5 ALPHA
00038: ~SAERILETH/SETUP-SAERILETH.TP2~ 0 0 // Saerileth Romance Mod (BG2:SoA & TOB NPC) created by nethrin and Sillara: v15
00039: ~WORGAS/WORGAS.TP2~ 0 0 // Worgas: Beta v1.1
00040: ~TYRISFLARE/SETUP-TYRISFLARE.TP2~ 0 0 // Tyris Flare NPC: v2
00041: ~ALLISON/SETUP-ALLISON.TP2~ 0 0 // Allison (One-Day NPC) v1.6
00042: ~DEARNISE/SETUP-DEARNISE.TP2~ 0 0 // de'Arnise Romance for Baldur's Gate II, v2
00043: ~CHLOE/CHLOE.TP2~ 0 0 // Chloe NPC mod: v1.5
00044: ~IEPBANTERS/SETUP-IEPBANTERS.TP2~ 0 0 // Extended NPC-NPC Interaction SoA: 3.2
00045: ~IMOEN.TP2~ 0 0 // 'Imoen Romance Add-on Mod BG2:SoA(ToB required!)v1.201'
00046: ~ALCOOL/ALCOOL.TP2~ 1 0 // A Night out in the Taverns: V0.9
00047: ~SETUP-BRANWENNPC.TP2~ 0 0 // Branwen NPC
00048: ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ 0 0 // The Kidnapping of Boo by Cliffette: v18 BWP Fix
00049: ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ 0 18 // Restored Minor Dialogs: v18 BWP Fix
00050: ~HOMEWARDBOUND/SETUP-HOMEWARDBOUND.TP2~ 0 0 // Homeward Bound: v6 - 01 April, 2010
00051: ~SETUP-SOLAUFEIN.TP2~ 0 0 // Solaufein Romance for Baldur's Gate II (SoA & ToB)
00052: ~KELSEY.TP2~ 0 0 // Kelsey v2.1: for BG2 - SoA
00053: ~SETUP-KETO.TP2~ 0 0 // Keto-SOA NPC V2
00054: ~SETUP-KIARA-ZAIYA.TP2~ 0 0 // Kiara-Zaiya for BG2 SOA: v1.6 Fr-Es-Ge-Ru
00055: ~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ 0 4 // Jaheira Flirt Pack for SOA
00056: ~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ 0 5 // Jaheira/Solaufein Romance Conflict For SOA (Solaufein V60 or greater recommended)
00057: ~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ 0 9 // Improved Firkraag
00058: ~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ 0 6 // Alternative Harper/Xzar Plot: v2.3 (Feb 14, 2010)
00059: ~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ 0 8 // Intrigue In The Copper Coronet: v2.3 (Feb 14, 2010)
00060: ~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ 0 19 // Nazariel The Lich: v2.3 (Feb 14, 2010)
00061: ~ALTERNATIVES/SETUP-ALTERNATIVES.TP2~ 0 0 // Alternatives: v5
00062: ~G3ANNIVERSARY/SETUP-G3ANNIVERSARY.TP2~ 0 0 // The Gibberlings Three Anniversary Mod
00063: ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ 0 7 // Additional equipment for Thieves and Bards: v4.34
00064: ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ 0 11 // Chosen of Cyric encounter: v4.34
00065: ~SETUP-XPMOD.TP2~ 0 11 // Quest XP Reduction -> Reduce to 75%
00066: ~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ 0 0 // Aurora's Shoes and Boots: v5
00067: ~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ 0 247 // Change quest gold rewards -> Reduce to 50%: v5



[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 21500
[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
override/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg BGT/Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/1/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg bg1npc/backup/200/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Mur'Neth/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg gavin/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg gavin/backup/1/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg emad\Backup/3/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg DC\Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Assassinations/Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg TotDG\backup/1/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg amber/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg aD&L\backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Kido\Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Star\backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Yasraena\backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Neh'taniel/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Angelo/Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Saerileth\backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg worgas\backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg TyrisFlare/Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg deArnise/Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Chloe/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg iepbanters/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg iepbanters/backup/4/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg viconia/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg mazzy/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg ImoenRom/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg vanim/vanim-backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg ub/backup/4/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg homewardbound/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Sheena\backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg kelsey\Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg keto\Backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg Kiara-Zaiya\backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg npcflirt\Backup/8/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg npcflirt\Backup/9/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg questpack/backup/8/VICONIJ.dlg
override/viconij.dlg questpack/backup/19/viconij.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg G3Anniversary/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg RR/BACKUP/7/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.dlg RR/BACKUP/11/VICONIJ.dlg
override/VICONIJ.DLG xpmod/backup/11/VICONIJ.DLG
override/VICONIJ.dlg aurora/backup/0/VICONIJ.dlg


Mods affecting VICONIJ.DLG:
00000: /* from game biffs */ ~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ 0 0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: v9.01 BW Fixpack
00001: ~SETUP-BGT.TP2~ 0 0 // Baldur's Gate Trilogy - Core: 1.08 (16 Mar 10)
00002: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 0 // The BG1 NPC Project: Required Modifications: v18
00003: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 1 // The BG1 NPC Project: Banters, Quests, and Interjections: v18
00004: ~BG1NPC.TP2~ 0 200 // The BG1 NPC Project: Player-Initiated Dialogues: v18
00005: ~MUR'NETH.TP2~ 0 0 // The Mur'Neth NPC mod for Baldur's Gate Tutu or Baldur's Gate Trilogy-WeiDU
00006: ~GAVIN/GAVIN.TP2~ 0 0 // Gavin NPC for Tutu and BGT, 14April2008: v3.1 BW Fixpack
00007: ~GAVIN/GAVIN.TP2~ 0 1 // Gavin: Romance (mature content): v3.1 BW Fixpack
00008: ~EMAD/SETUP-EMAD.TP2~ 0 3 // Under Her Spell: v4
00009: ~DC/SETUP-DC.TP2~ 0 0 // Dungeon Crawl, v5
00010: ~ASSASSINATIONS/SETUP-ASSASSINATIONS.TP2~ 0 0 // Assassinations mod for Baldur's Gate II, v7
00011: ~TOTDG/SETUP-TOTDG.TP2~ 0 1 // NPC Reactions (Aerie, Viconia, Jaheira, Anomen, Haer'Dalis, Keldorn)
00012: ~SETUP-AMBER.TP2~ 0 0 // Amber the NPC MOD for BGII:SoA: v2.5
00013: ~SETUP-BTL.TP2~ 0 0 // Beyond the Law - Kova & Kiyone
00014: ~SETUP-KIDO.TP2~ 0 0 // Kido the Jester (Requires Throne of Bhaal)
00015: ~STAR.TP2~ 0 0 // SilverStar Mod
00016: ~YASRAENA/SETUP-YASRAENA.TP2~ 0 0 // Yasraena (BG2:SoA & TOB NPC) created by nethrin & Sillara of the Tamari: v11
00017: ~SETUP-NEH'TANIEL.TP2~ 0 0 // Neh'taniel NPC Mod: v4.8
00018: ~ANGELO/SETUP-ANGELO.TP2~ 0 0 // Angelo NPC MOD for Baldur's Gate II, v3
00019: ~SAERILETH/SETUP-SAERILETH.TP2~ 0 0 // Saerileth Romance Mod (BG2:SoA & TOB NPC) created by nethrin and Sillara: v15
00020: ~WORGAS/WORGAS.TP2~ 0 0 // Worgas: Beta v1.1
00021: ~TYRISFLARE/SETUP-TYRISFLARE.TP2~ 0 0 // Tyris Flare NPC: v2
00022: ~DEARNISE/SETUP-DEARNISE.TP2~ 0 0 // de'Arnise Romance for Baldur's Gate II, v2
00023: ~CHLOE/CHLOE.TP2~ 0 0 // Chloe NPC mod: v1.5
00024: ~IEPBANTERS/SETUP-IEPBANTERS.TP2~ 0 0 // Extended NPC-NPC Interaction SoA: 3.2
00025: ~IEPBANTERS/SETUP-IEPBANTERS.TP2~ 0 4 // NPC Conflict Revisions: 3.2
00026: ~VICONIA/SETUP-VICONIA.TP2~ 0 0 // Viconia Friendship: 3
00027: ~MAZZY/SETUP-MAZZY.TP2~ 0 0 // Mazzy Friendship: 2
00028: ~IMOEN.TP2~ 0 0 // 'Imoen Romance Add-on Mod BG2:SoA(ToB required!)v1.201'
00029: ~SETUP-VANIM.TP2~ 1 0 // A new NPC: Vanim, a notorious assassin
00030: ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ 0 4 // Gorje Hilldark and the Extended Illithium Quest: v18 BWP Fix
00031: ~HOMEWARDBOUND/SETUP-HOMEWARDBOUND.TP2~ 0 0 // Homeward Bound: v6 - 01 April, 2010
00032: ~SETUP-SHEENA.TP2~ 0 0 // Install A Half Dragon Tale: v1.7
00033: ~KELSEY.TP2~ 0 0 // Kelsey v2.1: for BG2 - SoA
00034: ~SETUP-KETO.TP2~ 0 0 // Keto-SOA NPC V2
00035: ~SETUP-KIARA-ZAIYA.TP2~ 0 0 // Kiara-Zaiya for BG2 SOA: v1.6 Fr-Es-Ge-Ru
00036: ~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ 0 8 // Viconia Flirt Pack for SOA
00037: ~SETUP-NPCFLIRT.TP2~ 0 9 // Viconia/Solaufein Romance Conflict For SOA (Solaufein V60 or greater recommended)
00038: ~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ 0 8 // Intrigue In The Copper Coronet: v2.3 (Feb 14, 2010)
00039: ~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ 0 19 // Nazariel The Lich: v2.3 (Feb 14, 2010)
00040: ~G3ANNIVERSARY/SETUP-G3ANNIVERSARY.TP2~ 0 0 // The Gibberlings Three Anniversary Mod
00041: ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ 0 7 // Additional equipment for Thieves and Bards: v4.34
00042: ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ 0 11 // Chosen of Cyric encounter: v4.34
00043: ~SETUP-XPMOD.TP2~ 0 11 // Quest XP Reduction -> Reduce to 75%
00044: ~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ 0 0 // Aurora's Shoes and Boots: v5

temujin.

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #136 on: April 15, 2010, 09:55:27 AM »
Quote
[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 21500
[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
override/SHOUTIDS.IDS TDD/backup/0/SHOUTIDS.IDS
override/shoutids.ids gminion\build1.8\backup/0/shoutids.ids


Mods affecting SHOUTIDS.IDS:
00000: ~SETUP-TDD.TP2~ 0 0 // The Darkest Day,  v1.13: v1.13 BW Fixpack
00001: ~SETUP-GMINION.TP2~ 0 0 // gMinion v1.8: v1.8 BGT-expansion_v2

I was expecting to see more entries that would affect shoutids.ids...  it's possible there is another mod that overwrote this IDS, but change-log may not have recorded it... (change-log has a rare case of not properly recording files added/modified by mods)

if possible, can you upload the following files somewhere (all these from your broken install where you got those error messages)?

1. SHOUTIDS.00000.IDS
2. SHOUTIDS.00001.IDS (you should've gotten these two when you change-logged shoutids.ids)
3. your current SHOUTIDS.IDS (this should be in your override/biffs, you get this using NI)
4. gminion/build1.8/backup/0/shoutids.ids (the file backed up by gminion)
5. your Setup-Valen.tp2
6. your Setup-gMinion.tp2


btw, this problem has nothing to do with the questpack or the fixes in this thread or the super happy modder pack, but I'm wondering if it has something to do with some mod that stealthily overwrote shoutids.ids and manages to hide from change-log.

Fennek

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #137 on: April 15, 2010, 01:59:58 PM »
Good to hear that we might find the source (and that it is not the lack of a fixpack component). Well, I uploaded the date here:

http://www.shsforums.net/topic/44771-problems-with-the-tactics-installation-this-time-normal-bwsbwp/page__view__findpost__p__484713

(I included the shout.ids frm the override; I did not biff for testing reasons.)

temujin.

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #138 on: April 15, 2010, 06:50:03 PM »
Looks like this 'invisible' mod that's silently overwriting shoutids.ids might very well be BWP itself.

The Big World Fixpack package contains a bunch of IDS files in its Big World Fixpack/_ids folder.  These files are copied from this location to the game's override directly in-between different mod installs through BiG World Install.bat.

For example, look at this portion of code in BiG World Install.bat:

Quote
%IFNLS%touched%S%touched%L%0%SK% 0 1 | %M%

%IF% "BiG World Fixpack" copy /Y ".\BiG World Fixpack\_ids\shoutids.ids" ".\override" | %M%

%IFNLS%ninde%S%ninde%L%0%SK% 0 | %M%

%IFNLS%xulaye%S%xulaye%L%0%SK% 0 1 2 | %M%

%IFNLS%haldamir%S%haldamir%L%0%SK% 0 | %M%

This is why change-log is not able to record these changes.  There are a few more examples like it in that batch file...

This is not good.  BWP shouldn't be handling this problem this way.  It's better if you insert the IDS-patching code into the particular mod that needs those missing entries (like "APPEND ~SHOUTIDS.IDS~ ~2 ESCAPE_AREA_2~ UNLESS ~ESCAPE_AREA_2~", etc...)


More importantly, the shoutids.ids that comes with is very minimal (i.e. it has only 37 entries).  There are many, many more...  Some of those entries are mapped to different shouts...  For example, the number 2 is mapped to 'LEAVE2' whereas other mods have it mapped to 'ESCAPE_AREA_2.'  I don't know what happens if a single number is mapped to multiple shouts...

Offline Miloch

  • Barbarian
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1030
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #139 on: April 16, 2010, 11:40:55 PM »
%IF% "BiG World Fixpack" copy /Y ".\BiG World Fixpack\_ids\shoutids.ids" ".\override" | %M%
Yeah, that's pretty bad. It'd be one thing if they were copying a generic .ids if it didn't exist, but all of that sort of thing is better handled by tp2 than batch files (for one thing, WeiDU can detect whether the file exists in the override *or* the game biffs).

Offline Jarno Mikkola

  • The Imp.
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 184
  • Gender: Male
    • website jocuri
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #140 on: April 18, 2010, 05:50:10 AM »
More importantly, the shoutids.ids that comes with is very minimal (i.e. it has only 37 entries).  There are many, many more...  Some of those entries are mapped to different shouts...  For example, the number 2 is mapped to 'LEAVE2' whereas other mods have it mapped to 'ESCAPE_AREA_2.'  I don't know what happens if a single number is mapped to multiple shouts...
The explanation should be about like this; As the scripting code that is made when the mod is installed from a .baf to a .bcs, the IDS entries in the code are all replaced with single numbers, then the creature will act according to what inputs it's been given and according to the scripting priorities etc... so it doesn't actually matter if there are 50 same entries as long as the same creature doesn't intemperate the same ids number as different inputs.
The replacement with a number is a primary reason why one cannot safely upload the .bcs files, but one needs to use the .baf files with the WeiDU.exe and other files to re-script a creature to do the actions. Learned this the hard way...

The reason why the .IDS'es are appended is that some coders wish to use the LEAVE2 and some ESCAPE_AREA_2 to get the same effect, when they copy-paste the code to make a new .baf. Now, it's all fine and dandy as long as the 'command' in the shout is understood by all creatures the same way. Which almost certainly is in the LEAVE2 and ESCAPE_AREA_2...

But would someone append the same number with ATTACK_2, then the creatures might behave very strangely... like when a creature sees the player, all the other creatures in the immediate surroundings would try to leave the area when they should attack the player.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 06:20:55 AM by Jarno Mikkola »

Fennk

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #141 on: April 18, 2010, 12:43:16 PM »
O.K., I'll tell this Leomar etc. Any suggestions how one can get rid of these problems? Another / better .ids? Not putting an ids in at all (what would cause another problem, I guess, since Xulaye and Ninda also produced ids-problems some time ago)? Different ids at different points of time? Suggesting it to the modders to update their mods (what would be at SHS and here...).

Offline Jarno Mikkola

  • The Imp.
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 184
  • Gender: Male
    • website jocuri
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #142 on: April 18, 2010, 01:40:55 PM »
O.K., I'll tell this Leomar etc. Any suggestions how one can get rid of these problems? Another / better .ids? Not putting an ids in at all (what would cause another problem, I guess, since Xulaye and Ninda also produced ids-problems some time ago)? Different ids at different points of time? Suggesting it to the modders to update their mods (what would be at SHS and here...).
Well, make a test install that doesn't have any '.IDS corrections that the current BWP makes', then --change-log all the .IDS files and build a stable .IDS files from them, as the change-logging will give you all the backups of the files, so you can then combine them as a .IDS patcher to a single mod or put it to the BWP fixpack, the patching code should be something alike this code:
Code: [Select]
// Adds CD_STATE_NOTVALID state
APPEND ~STATE.IDS~ ~0x80101FEF CD_STATE_NOTVALID~
UNLESS ~CD_STATE_NOTVALID~
For one state, and as there are several that the original game doesn't have, there is likely to be very many different IDS'es.
You have to do this to all the states in all the .IDS files, and then remove all the .IDS overwriting .tp2 entries from all the mods that do that(the mods that do this are likely to be very old mods, like TDD, SoS or the kind AND THE BG2Tweakpack, yes, that's sad), the appending ones can stay as they just append if the file doesn't have the entry, which with this solution wouldn't happen anymore, so you could actually shorten the install time(minimally, but never the less).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 02:38:15 PM by Jarno Mikkola »

Fennek

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #143 on: April 19, 2010, 01:57:14 PM »
Thank you. I hope this can be realized in the near future.

Offline Miloch

  • Barbarian
  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1030
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #144 on: April 24, 2010, 12:02:53 AM »
remove all the .IDS overwriting .tp2 entries from all the mods that do that(the mods that do this are likely to be very old mods, like TDD, SoS or the kind AND THE BG2Tweakpack, yes, that's sad)
BG2 Tweaks overwrites .ids files?
Quote
the appending ones can stay as they just append if the file doesn't have the entry, which with this solution wouldn't happen anymore, so you could actually shorten the install time(minimally, but never the less).
By like a few milliseconds maybe, lol.

Offline Lollorian

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 96
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #145 on: April 24, 2010, 02:21:24 AM »
Not many mods actually overwrite ids files, but some mods do create a copy of the ids in the override if it isn't present at the time of install (BG2Tweaks does this) ... if there's a copy of the ids already present in the override, they don't overwrite it :)

temujin.

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #146 on: April 24, 2010, 06:51:59 PM »
if there's a copy of the ids already present in the override, they don't overwrite it :)

even this has the potential to cause problems...

1. checking whether the IDS is present in the override/biffs wouldn't automatically guarantee the entry they want to append already exists.

2. more importantly, some mods (like Valen) have this type of seemingly innocent code:

Code: [Select]
  ACTION_IF NOT FILE_EXISTS ~override/shoutids.ids~ THEN BEGIN
    COPY ~valen/ids/shoutids.ids~ ~override/shoutids.ids~
  END

meanwhile, a mod that's installed earlier (ex: DSotSC) may have biffed the IDS (thereby removing it from the override), causing Valen to copy its extremely outdated shoutids.ids...



sigh

where is the shoot-yourself-in-the-foot smiley when you need one.

Offline cmorgan

  • Planewalker
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
  • Gender: Male
  • Searcher of Bugs
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #147 on: April 24, 2010, 07:02:32 PM »
This is why I hate .bifs.

hat sort of check is standard practice for a number of mods, from way back in the day to present time.

I think it should be

  ACTION_IF NOT FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~shoutids.ids~ THEN BEGIN
    COPY ~valen/ids/shoutids.ids~ ~override/shoutids.ids~
  END


right? Is that the variant of A_I F_E that checks the .bifs?

Most importantly, where is the shoot random grenades in all directios smiley when you want one? :)

temujin.

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #148 on: April 24, 2010, 07:39:23 PM »
F_E_I_G is safer, of course, but my point is,

suppose you want to ensure that

Code: [Select]
1000 CMORGAN_SOLAR_STANCE

gets added to shoutids.ids.


now, if shoutids.ids doesn't exist in game, then the shoutids.ids supplied from your mod (containing the above entry) gets copied to override. all is well.

but if shoutids.ids already exists in game, then your code would simply assume "1000 CMORGAN_SOLAR_STANCE" also exists and move on without actually bothering to check.

my point is, how can you make that assumption?  wouldn't it also help to use "APPEND ... UNLESS ..." or some form of FILE_CONTAINS regexp or something like that?

Fennek

  • Guest
Re: I am interested in any and all criticism!
« Reply #149 on: April 25, 2010, 05:05:39 AM »
I think / hope we found a solution for the problem (well, at least to avoid errors during BWP installations). If this way works in some (more) test installations, the problem might be solved. Please have a look here (several posts):

http://www.shsforums.net/topic/42220-fixes-for-the-big-fixpack/page__view__findpost__p__485790


 

With Quick-Reply you can write a post when viewing a topic without loading a new page. You can still use bulletin board code and smileys as you would in a normal post.

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Name: Email:
Verification:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image
Type the letters shown in the picture:
What color is grass?:
What is the seventh word in this sentence?:
What is five minus two (use the full word)?: