Author Topic: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)  (Read 6921 times)

Offline bryad

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New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« on: August 02, 2005, 02:43:40 AM »
I am to classify this as a possible SPOILER thread. For those not wishing to be exposed to SPOILERS of Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, please note that his thread may contain said SPOILERS. Thank you for your co-operation.

I am eager to find out what you all thought, and to possibly discuss the book and what may happen next. Im sorry if I have to "Move this to a Rowling forum NOW please." I only believe that its good to have some fresh pages in our fantasy files once in a while.

Offline Sorrow

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2005, 02:23:40 PM »
I think that Harry Potter is Satan's apprentice.
I have told that to  people in a bookstore and they have looked at me in a weird way.
I think that they were Satan's apprentices too :(.
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Offline irenicus

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2005, 02:54:42 PM »
the new harry potter book SUCKED... im sorry, but it was rubish, JK rowling seamed to lose intrest in this book, "goblet of fire" is my forever favorate, Reamus is still my sexy god (-snickers-) couldnt resist, and, snape is always my innocent little weird black haired guy

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!
Snape was under imperious
he did not willingly kill (cars beep as she says name)

Offline Userunfriendly

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2005, 04:49:37 PM »
spoilers...









my theory is harry is the last holocrux.

this explains how harry was able to enter the mind of the big snake (forgot name) in the last book...both he and the snake share a bit of voldy's soul

this was how he was able to read riddle's mood in the last book.

this is how he got parsel mouth

what i think happened is that while he was trying to kill harry, he accidentally made him the EIGHTH holocrux(including of course his own body)...transferring a bit of his soul into the infant harry, and going above the mystical seven soul fragments...this was why he was nearly destroyed for so many years...he had to hunt down and reabsorb one of his soul objects...

finally, the real reason why i think harry is the last holocrux...from a literary viewpoint, if i was jk rowlings, i'd end the series with harry discovering he's a soul vessal containing a bit of voldemort, and going into a major snit about it...then someone takes him and gives him a good talking to...

dumbledore's picture:  evil can't be convieniently destroyed no matter how hard you try, harry.  the true nature of evil is that it is inside each and every one of us...the real test in life is how we fight it, all our lives, to resist its call and lure, and to accept that evil is always a part of us, and how we overcome it in life is what truely makes us good. ;) ;) ;)
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Offline melora

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2005, 08:17:40 PM »
i liked it better than the order of the phoenix, but goblet of fire is still my favorite... btw, userunfriendly, that is a really interesting theory......
and i cried at the end.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2005, 09:55:01 PM »
We discussed that possibility on another forum, and came out with the hypothesis that it'd be highly unlikely for Harry to be a Horcrux.

As for Snape, best guess is he was under orders so as not to break his information gathering for the OOTP. Since Dumbledore was badly wounded anyhow.
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Offline St. Josephine

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2005, 10:19:49 PM »
Who is this "we" that you speak of?  And could you please post a link?  I'm nosy.  :)
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Offline Userunfriendly

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2005, 10:31:12 PM »
Who is this "we" that you speak of?  And could you please post a link?  I'm nosy.  :)

ditto. :P
Jansens aren't as harmless like everybody supposes!
They got them stumpy legs and puffy potato noses!
And what's with all the turnips?
Why do they eat so much root vegetables, anyway?
Jansens, Jansens,
It must be Jansens!!!
(or it could be griffins)

Offline Borsook

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2005, 11:53:12 PM »
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!
Snape was under imperious
he did not willingly kill (cars beep as she says name)
I have a different view on that, I bielieve that he killed D. on D's requests (notice his advice to Harry - "close your mind" while on the run), now he'll be become V's favourite "friend" and be able to eventually bring about his downfall.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Offline Kismet

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2005, 07:24:38 AM »
My theory is that Snape didn't kill Dumbledore at all and that the poison Dumbledore drank did.  I think it was probably the plan for Snape to appear to have killed Dumbledore.  We have Hermione tell Harry that doing something and making people think you did something is the same thing (in re: Harry making Ron think he slipped him the liquid luck.)  We also have Dumbledore telling Draco that nobody will be looking for you if they think you're dead.  I think in the few moments that they stared at each other a bit of legilimancy was happening and Snape was getting some final orders.

Snape hits Dumbledore with an AK, which ends up being pretty dramatic.  Other AK deaths that we've seen have been "green light, fall down dead" rather than "green light, get blown up and back, fall down dead."  Fawkes also doesn't sing his dirge until Harry makes it back to the infirmary, at least 20-30 minutes later.
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Offline Evaine Dian

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2005, 02:50:22 PM »
That sounds like a good theory, Kismet. These on first sight unimportant little scenes as the one with the liquid luck usually turn out to be of some relevance to the plot. Anyway, I'd find it very poor if Snape really was on Voldemort's side and Harry was oh so clever and knew it all right from the start. Just because he doesn't like him, he doesn't have to be evil. I myself found Harry quite unappealing in HBP. Character development is all fine, but I think he has changed a little bit too fast and not in the best way.
"Show me how you do that trick! The one that makes me scream", she said,
"the one that makes me laugh!" she said and threw her arms around my neck.
"Show me how you do it and I promise you, I promise that
I'll run away with you, I'll run away with you..."

Offline discharger12

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 07:28:00 PM »
I thought it was quite good, though I was a little disappointed that it was shorter then TOotP. As for Snape, I have no idea what to believe. I would like to think he's working for the Dark Lord because I never liked him, but..

This is a bit off topic from this book, but I read a theory somewhere that theorized RL being Harry's father. If someone wants to know more I can try and find it.

Offline Evaine Dian

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2005, 05:08:09 AM »
I thought Harry could have a different father, too, but then, why would everyone tell him that he looks exactly like James Potter (except for the eyes, blah)?
I read on Rowling's official homepage ("rumours" -> 2nd page -> "Voldemort is Harry's real father") that James is definitely Harry's father and I think it's safe to believe her in that case.
"Show me how you do that trick! The one that makes me scream", she said,
"the one that makes me laugh!" she said and threw her arms around my neck.
"Show me how you do it and I promise you, I promise that
I'll run away with you, I'll run away with you..."

Offline Borsook

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2005, 06:06:37 AM »
It'd be pretty silly (as in sitcom silly) to make suddenly somebody else Harry's father.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2005, 09:59:44 AM »
That sounds like a good theory, Kismet. These on first sight unimportant little scenes as the one with the liquid luck usually turn out to be of some relevance to the plot. Anyway, I'd find it very poor if Snape really was on Voldemort's side and Harry was oh so clever and knew it all right from the start. Just because he doesn't like him, he doesn't have to be evil. I myself found Harry quite unappealing in HBP. Character development is all fine, but I think he has changed a little bit too fast and not in the best way.

Yeah. Harry's all trashy and angsty.
Strangely, the support characters are actually more interesting than the protagonist.

Luna <3 4 eva!

As for Voldemort being Harry's father, that's like...the 3E book of sex (the name eludes me right now) level bad. Trust me. you don't want it to be that bad. tis only a short step from there for Alone in the Dark the movie bad. And once you're that low, there's no going back.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 10:03:08 AM by Veloxyll »
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Offline Evaine Dian

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2005, 11:41:37 AM »
Lord V. [stertorously]   Harry, I'm your father... 
Sounds strangely familiar. Definitely over-used.

I like the others better than Harry, too, so I am disappointed that Rowling wrote only little about the support characters (I miss Hagrid).
"Show me how you do that trick! The one that makes me scream", she said,
"the one that makes me laugh!" she said and threw her arms around my neck.
"Show me how you do it and I promise you, I promise that
I'll run away with you, I'll run away with you..."

Offline Operadragon

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2005, 09:42:38 PM »
Character changing too much?

OK...I can buy that, but looking at the set of circumstances, Harry's had to grow up a lot in a short amount of time, arguably the most in the last three years, considering there's been a major death in like June of every year since POA, and if you count POA, nearly two more (Sirius with the Dementors and Buckbeak's date with the executioner's axe). I can buy Harry aging a *lot* from about March of Year 5 up to now. Imagine if the two men closest to family you have are suddenly dead within a year of each other, then imagine how you'd age psychologically.

Trashy and angsty? OK...I can buy that maybe a book-and-a-half ago, kinda when I was talking about above...about March/April of OotP, but since then?

Hardly. He's had to grow up fast, and when that happens to people in real life, it's not necessarily pretty...but why describe him as trashy and angsty?

As for Kismet's hypothesis, I'm with it mostly. I think the potion was *killing* Dumbledore, but Snape's Avada Kevadra was a mercy blow, if there can be such an animal when talking about "Unforgivable Curses." I think that it's highly possible that Snape is under an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore. I know that a lot of people aren't buying that because of "what kind of person Dumbledore was," but let's say that Dumbledore did it waaaay back right after the Potters were killed. According to text, the only other person that heard the prophesy was the "bartender" at the Hog's Head. That would be Aberforth Dumbledore, and what perfect way to introduce him in book 7 as not only the brother of the greatest wizard of the time, but also the other member of the OotP that JKR mentions that we'll get to 'officially' meet in book 7, *AND* just happens to be the one to clear up whose side Snape is on...but others will say how?

Easy. He was the Bonder of the Unbreakable Vow between Snape and his brother.  Ladies and gentlemen, a revelation.

Besides, if Snape's working for LV, then we have two of the same villain. Nah...JKR wouldn't do that to us. Voldemort has to be the bad guy.  Snape is the classic double agent, but how we get to that point in the book will be very near the end.

As for Dumbledore's death itself, I think is was done with witnesses present for a reason. I'm not going out there on that limb and say that Dumbledore isn't dead...yet, but it sure worked out, didn't it. Death Eaters and Harry and Malfoy all around, the way Dumbledore's body was blown off the parapet, like Kismet said, and the parts during the chase when Harry calls Snape a coward and the reaction to that, and the fact that Snape saved Harry from a Cruciatus Curse, and possibly from death. What benefit could that serve unless Snape is still bound to Dumbledore's Vow.

Just some thoughts....

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Offline Evaine Dian

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2005, 06:13:03 AM »
Character changing too much?

OK...I can buy that, but looking at the set of circumstances, Harry's had to grow up a lot in a short amount of time, arguably the most in the last three years, considering there's been a major death in like June of every year since POA, and if you count POA, nearly two more (Sirius with the Dementors and Buckbeak's date with the executioner's axe). I can buy Harry aging a *lot* from about March of Year 5 up to now. Imagine if the two men closest to family you have are suddenly dead within a year of each other, then imagine how you'd age psychologically.


I knew someone would come up with that, but that's not what I mean. I simply thought Harry was badly written in HBP. To me, he doesn't sound like a grown-up version of himself. One day he's terribly depressed about the deaths and so very desperate, the other day he sounds just like good old Harry, then he gets all angry and fierce and in between he's love-sick (all the snogging was kind of trashy :)). When I read it, I had the feeling that either Rowling was hesitant how to depict a Harry who has suffered from blows of fate, or that important parts were cut ;). IMO, it was not convincing enough, sorry.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2005, 06:14:55 AM by Evaine Dian »
"Show me how you do that trick! The one that makes me scream", she said,
"the one that makes me laugh!" she said and threw her arms around my neck.
"Show me how you do it and I promise you, I promise that
I'll run away with you, I'll run away with you..."

Offline discharger12

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2005, 12:03:24 PM »
Ooh, I wrote that wrong. I meant to say that James switched bodies with Lupin. Somehow. I think it was supposed to be before Peter gave away the hiding place.

Offline Evaine Dian

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2005, 05:31:15 PM »
(A quick summary for those people who want to save their money.)
"Show me how you do that trick! The one that makes me scream", she said,
"the one that makes me laugh!" she said and threw her arms around my neck.
"Show me how you do it and I promise you, I promise that
I'll run away with you, I'll run away with you..."

Offline Daerthax

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2005, 08:12:18 AM »
Yes, I know I've been a lurker but this topic is just too good to resist.

My Dad was the first one in our family to suggest that Harry Potter was the missing 7th Horcrux (Something of Gryffindor's and Ravenclaw's but, I personally doubt that one). I, however, disagreed with him on that. Lord Voldemort (watches everyone cringe) came into that room all those years ago with the intent and purpose to kill Harry Potter with the Avada Kadavera curse. You would not be making a Horcrux, an item to store a piece of your soul in with something that you were about to kill. My personal theory is that when the killing curse backfired against Lily Potter's protection around Harry, the power transfer happened then. Yes, he got his link to Lord V, and the parsel tongue ability, but I doubt that it makes him a honest to goodness Horcrux. If JK Rowling shows that Harry is a horcrux, there better be a good reason, or else I'll think she's reaching.

I was the one that suggested the death was a cover-up. Dumbledore has always been one step ahead of everyone. He knew of Malfoy and kept playing everyone off for the reasons that he showed just before he 'died'. The pictures of all the previous head masters could easily be faked to add to the illusion. (A possible reason why the picture could've been sleeping, instead of being awake.) Snape could've told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow that'd force him to go through with the plan and he did fulfill the letter of the vow by casting the killing curse, 'killing' Dumbledore. Above all though, and this is where a few members of my family are kinda ticked off, there has to be a much better reason why Dumbledore would so adamantly defend Snape all that time than a lamely put apology from Snape to Dumbledore about his actions about the Potters. A highly skilled legimans (sp?) and wizard like Dumbledore surely couldn't have been duped by Snape.

As to the potion, Dumbledore could've known that R.A.B. (We're thinking it's Sirus' ancestor, the former headmaster of Hogwarts), put the dupe there for someone to find later. So, the potion could've been a ruse, to weaken himself and pull off some illusion of his death. Making Harry (and everyone else for that matter) believe it and let him do things solo. The reason Harry had to believe it was so that Lord V. couldn't raid Harry's mind and know Dumbledore is still out there. Also, the excuse for the two of them to slip off would give the death eaters time to strike and let Malfoy do his plan so that the highly suspicious Harry couldn't have interfered with Malfoy's and thus, Dumbledore's plans.

Wild theories for your enjoyment, have fun folks.
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Offline Borsook

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2005, 01:39:25 PM »
As for the potion - if you can scoop it into a glass why can't you pour it onto the floor instead of drinking? There may be some magical reason to that known to D. but why Harry so intent on D not hurting himself never asks? It's these kind of things that ruin all the illusion of the created world being real...
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Offline clock sendak

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2005, 01:40:31 PM »
the great task of any writer (actor, director, painter, sculptor, etc) during the creation of whatever it is they are working on is "to raise the stakes".  There are several other considerations that go into the final presentation, but the question the writer continually asks (if not where's the money) is how do I raise the stakes.  As fond as I am of Dumbledore, it lowers the stakes for him to always know all along that everything was going to work out (this, in fact is my only criticism of Michael Gambon in PoA - he plays the end too much).  One of the more interesting trends in the series is that the adult wizards- the real wizarding community is involved in a war wherein success is not at all assurred.  Dumbledore does not have all the answers, and he makes mistakes, as he has admitted several times.  He could be wrong about snape (but like someone else in this posting I would hate for harry to have been right all along). 
I do like the harry as horcrux idea, but what about the Half-Blood Prince himself.  I didn't see any posts about him, and since he's a title character, perhaps that's where all our vague disappointment with the book is coming from.  It felt rushed, like maybe she's starting to ask where the money is, or at least wishing she had more than seven books to finish the story in.  They couldn't do star wars in 6, they won't bne able to do harry potter in 7.
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Offline clock sendak

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Re: New Harry Potter, what do you think? (read it, then reply)
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2005, 01:41:13 PM »
oh yeah, nice t-shirt
Hey yo, I know this dude right.
Carl, he wore tight blue sweats, but wasn't glued too tight.  all he had upstairs was a crude light
you think that's weird, he lived next door to a food fight.