Author Topic: Anti-Paldins + Virtue  (Read 4755 times)

The Great Khali

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Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« on: July 02, 2006, 05:10:27 AM »
Is there any way Virtue can be used to stop Anti-Paladin kits (or similar) from failing?
It's the big problem with such kits which no-one has managed to get around so far.

I know Paladins originally failed after 1 virtue drop, then it was changed to 2. Could this be changed to an extremley high number or something to ensure Paladins never fail?

Offline Grim Squeaker

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2006, 06:30:27 AM »
Is there any way Virtue can be used to stop Anti-Paladin kits (or similar) from failing?
It's the big problem with such kits which no-one has managed to get around so far.

I know Paladins originally failed after 1 virtue drop, then it was changed to 2. Could this be changed to an extremley high number or something to ensure Paladins never fail?

It could be changed so virtue didn't cause paladins to fall but reputation would still cause it.
"You alone can make my song take flight..."

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2006, 01:19:34 PM »
I believe SimDing0 is looking into ways to prevent the game itself from causing Falling, and subverting the control into something that can be manipulated, so that, for example, Good-aligned paladins would Fall at low Virtue/Rep, and Evil-aligned paladins would fall at high Virtue/Rep. But a lot of it seems to be hardcoded, it's quite a struggle.

In the meantime, you could always have one of your other party members be the Paladin or Anti-Paladin, since NPCs can never Fall anyway.

Offline Grim Squeaker

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2006, 01:23:30 PM »
I believe SimDing0 is looking into ways to prevent the game itself from causing Falling, and subverting the control into something that can be manipulated, so that, for example, Good-aligned paladins would Fall at low Virtue/Rep, and Evil-aligned paladins would fall at high Virtue/Rep. But a lot of it seems to be hardcoded, it's quite a struggle.

In the meantime, you could always have one of your other party members be the Paladin or Anti-Paladin, since NPCs can never Fall anyway.

To my knowledge the idea got about this far: The reputation system could be replaced by a variable and with R_T all commands to increase or decrease reptuations would be converted into modification of that variable.  In a similar way to adding Virtue to the character information screen, this new Reputation variable could be added.  This would allow falling to be entirely scripted.  However, and this is the problem, the old reputation value to our knowledge cannot be removed from information window.
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Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2006, 01:34:10 PM »
...this is the problem, the old reputation value to our knowledge cannot be removed from information window.
Well, heck, if that's the only problem, I'd be willing to accept having a meaningless variable in my Records screen in exchange for meaningful Falling any day. Just call the new Rep variable "Esteem" or something like that, and display all 3.

Heya

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2006, 01:37:53 PM »
Could it be an optional component to Virtue to stop Paladins (and Rangers) falling? (some people would want to roleplay evil)

Offline Grim Squeaker

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2006, 01:44:47 PM »
...this is the problem, the old reputation value to our knowledge cannot be removed from information window.
Well, heck, if that's the only problem, I'd be willing to accept having a meaningless variable in my Records screen in exchange for meaningful Falling any day. Just call the new Rep variable "Esteem" or something like that, and display all 3.

Well, you'd want to change it to a middle value (say, 10) and then modify happy.2da to prevent everyone from spouting lines about your current reputation.  They'd then have to be scripted, but that's perfectly possible (but unless some extremely clever code is come up with, it wouldn't happen by default for mod NPCs).  In fact you'd want them scripted to be responding to your Virtue really.

Could it be an optional component to Virtue to stop Paladins (and Rangers) falling? (some people would want to roleplay evil)

Were this kind of idea implemented, there's no reason why not, but it's up to Sim.
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Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2006, 01:53:43 PM »
Could it be an optional component to Virtue to stop Paladins (and Rangers) falling? (some people would want to roleplay evil)
If this sort of change is ever implemented successfully, then it's possible that a "Nobody Falls, ever" component would be added to Ease of Use or something. But what I think would be more likely (and more popular) would be that the game would then allow Paladins and Rangers of all alignments, and you would Fall if you strayed too far from your starting alignment.

Offline Mongoose87

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2006, 01:39:09 PM »
I could see Rangers of all alignments, but without a specific kit, I don't think Paladins of all alignments would be appropriate.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2006, 01:08:41 AM »
Kind of like Divine Remix's idea of "No unkitted Clerics--you've gotta pray to somebody?" Yeah, I can see the arguments for that, though I personally am in favor of allowing people to roleplay Clerics that follow gods not available through DR or Ashes of Embers--let them pick the god, give them access to every spell, and let them choose their own spell-sphere access.

Same with Paladins, in my book. I coded up a little basic unkitted Paladin template, where Neutral and Evil paladins get (respectively) Detect Extreme and Detect Good instead of Detect Evil, PfExtreme and PfGood in place of PfEvil, and "Life Siphon" and "Bloodspill" abilites in lieu of Lay On Hands. Life Siphon deals 1hp of damage per paladin level and gives it to the paladin (cannot heal beyond caster's maximum), and Bloodspill just does 2hp of damage per paladin level.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Anti-Paldins + Virtue
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2006, 11:23:02 AM »
Well, heck, if that's the only problem, I'd be willing to accept having a meaningless variable in my Records screen in exchange for meaningful Falling any day. Just call the new Rep variable "Esteem" or something like that, and display all 3.
We also lose the ability to implement reputation-specific store dicounts (arguably no great loss), and the use of the church donations screen. The latter can be reimplemented via dialogue. The former cannot.

 

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