Author Topic: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade  (Read 30596 times)

Offline Galactygon

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #75 on: July 03, 2005, 11:21:52 AM »
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Continuing on this tangent, Let's say you can actually meet this other party some time down the road: Maybe you fight, maybe you don't. Maybe you convince Aerie to transfer right from their party to yours--if your alignment/conversation responses are closer to Lawful Good than the leader of the other party.

Convincing Aerie should be based on more than simply alignment. The make up of your party as well as your charisma should affect how she reacts to you (a party of 2 evil characters, and 3 neutral ones, led by a lawful good Bhaalspawn should be less appealing than a party of 3 good characters, 2 neutral ones, led by a true neutral Bhaalspawn)

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I might almost suggest that the leader of the other party be a Bhaalspawn, but that's getting a little too parallel universe-y. But still Quest Pack, though.

There are enough Bhaalspawn in the game already and I (and many other people) are getting tired of them.

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Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2005, 02:24:01 PM »
Good call with Keldorn, Bex. But I will say that with Keldorn in the party, you're almost guaranteed to get (and therefore complete) Keldorn's quest within 3 days of recruiting him, and therefore you're hardly likely to be in Chapter 6 when he decides to go to the circus. Still, what if you need to re-recruit him afterwards? (Can this even be done? I've never tried it.) I say it's high time Keldorn and family returned to the Firecam Estate to enjoy some quality time around the dinner table, or playing in the front yard.
[ADD:] In the event that Keldorn is not recruited at all until Chapter 6, that will be because he is needed to replace some other party member who got chunked in Chapters 4-5, and therefore will be kept in the party and never truly reunite with his family at all. Still, we must consider those who do his quest merely for the EXP and/or to see him back with his family, and some of those people might wait until Chapter 6. In that event, they can simply go on a picnic (vanish from the game entirely for 24 hours), reappearing back at home the next day. [/ADD]

I've never understood Mrs. Harrold either: She vanishes at nightfall, leaving her husband to complain bitterly, and then reappears at the crack of dawn, and Mr. Harrold apparently has no memory of being bereft. This is evidently jetsam of some forgotten quest, but as it's the only remaining fragment, it's not even fit for Unfinished Business.


Don't worry, jester, I'm not suggesting that you (or even Sim) write up a huge "What If" mod, I'm just spewing forth ideas; they come pretty much of their own volition, and this is as good a place to scribble them down as any. Happily, the "missed opportunity" part is self-contained: Just find the Commoner dialogs that mention the PC's party saving the circus, and alter them so that it was some other party (with 7 members, so the PC knows it couldn't have been him) that led the heroic rescue. Later on, if anybody wants to tack on an actual encounter with this other adventuring party, the stage is already set.


Galactygon, having Aerie judge willingness to change teams based on party composition is a good idea, but hardly applicable: You can't tell what anyone's alignment is until after they join the party, and the purists say not even then: You have to talk with them, get to know them, and base your opinion on that. So Aerie should only be able to consider the Charisma and conversation responses of whoever does the talking, and also whether you have a Drow in the party.

Did you ever see the end movie of BG1? There are literally thousands of Bhaalspawn in the Realms. I agree that there's no need to have this hypothetical party led by one, but not that there are too many of them in the game already. An encounter with one could even avoid the "Oh, not another Bhaalspawn" factor simply by being discreet about it: No mention of divine heritage or the word Bhaalspawn at all, but in the event of combat, they might use one or more of the Ascension abilities (such as Hand of Murder) and that would be it.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2005, 02:38:01 PM by SixOfSpades »

DrattedTin

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #77 on: July 06, 2005, 08:28:04 PM »
You can't tell what anyone's alignment is until after they join the party, and the purists say not even then: You have to talk with them, get to know them, and base your opinion on that. So Aerie should only be able to consider the Charisma and conversation responses of whoever does the talking, and also whether you have a Drow in the party.

Huh? What about Detect Evil?

Offline devSin

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #78 on: July 06, 2005, 08:32:01 PM »
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I've never understood Mrs. Harrold either: She vanishes at nightfall, leaving her husband to complain bitterly, and then reappears at the crack of dawn, and Mr. Harrold apparently has no memory of being bereft. This is evidently jetsam of some forgotten quest, but as it's the only remaining fragment, it's not even fit for Unfinished Business.
Actually, she just has the day shift, while her husband gets 24 hour duty. They both have dialogue if their significant other is missing or dead (you'll never see hers, since he's always there). BioWare laziness (it should have gone the other direction, as she has better "Where's my husband?!" dialogue).

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2005, 01:27:37 AM »
Huh? What about Detect Evil?
Tell me, how often do you have Aerie memorize and cast Detect Evil?


"Harrold = there all day & Mrs. Harrold = gone at night" is precisely what I meant, devSin. Although good on you for finding out that she has a 'missing spouse' dialogue too. I wonder whether BioWare intended there to be some combat in the Promenade, or whether the Harrolds used to be inside the Circus Tent (perhaps as the "peasants" that have the "sword").

DrattedTin

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2005, 04:43:05 AM »
Huh? What about Detect Evil?
Tell me, how often do you have Aerie memorize and cast Detect Evil?


"Harrold = there all day & Mrs. Harrold = gone at night" is precisely what I meant, devSin. Although good on you for finding out that she has a 'missing spouse' dialogue too. I wonder whether BioWare intended there to be some combat in the Promenade, or whether the Harrolds used to be inside the Circus Tent (perhaps as the "peasants" that have the "sword").

I was sort of taking that in the vein of possibility... not...

"Does Aerie have detect evil RIGHT NOW?" but more "Can NPCs ever tell if you are Evil right off the bat?"

Though that could be pretty funny. An IF to check if NPC X has detect evi memorizedl, and if so, they immediately arange for NPC Z's untimely demise.

Offline devSin

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2005, 09:55:33 AM »
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"Harrold = there all day & Mrs. Harrold = gone at night" is precisely what I meant, devSin. Although good on you for finding out that she has a 'missing spouse' dialogue too.
Yeah, but she doesn't leave for any specific reason. My point was that it's just the actor schedule (she's set to the standard day-only, and he's always visible). My guess is simply that they forgot to check and make sure they match. There isn't anything anywhere in the game resources that suggests they have any other purpose than to bitch about the circus.

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I wonder whether BioWare intended there to be some combat in the Promenade, or whether the Harrolds used to be inside the Circus Tent (perhaps as the "peasants" that have the "sword").
Filenames suggest that the "peasants" were originally supposed to be children. Go, go, killing children!

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #82 on: July 08, 2005, 09:30:43 PM »
...."Can NPCs ever tell if you are Evil right off the bat?"
Circumstances suggest that they can't. Let's take the various NPC reactions to (the prospect of recruiting) the three Evil NPCs in the game.

Viconia: Drow, and therefore obviously pretty much guaranteed to be Evil. For Keldorn (and I think Anomen) this alone is reason enough to dislike her. Minsc and Jaheira, even though they had the opportunity to meet her in BGI and thus confirm their suspicions, do not want her to die....although Jaheira is not receptive to being in the same party. So it seems that even a Drow has some kind of rights.

Edwin: Minsc, naturally, objects the strongest, as they were mortal enemies in BGI, and as I recall, Jaheira isn't too keen on him either. But for those NPCs who don't already know that Edwin is a nasty fellow, the only complaints are about working for Thieves and committing murder on their say-so, which means that Evil can't be sensed by gut reactions. (If it could, there'd be no need for Detect Evil at all.)

Korgan: A new face for everybody (although he's practically a reincarnation of Kagain from BGI), so he starts with a clean slate all around. He's as Chaotic Evil as they come, his quest is clearly motivated by greed (lightly frosted with the pursuit of knowledge), and involves violating the sanctity of the tomb. Yet as far as I'm aware, none of the NPCs object to his quest or his person, at least for the first few days. Heck, Nalia takes more flak (from Good and Neutral party members) while joining up than Korgan does.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #83 on: July 16, 2005, 12:07:49 PM »
Any chance of having a fullsize rebuilt BMP? :)

Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #84 on: July 16, 2005, 01:52:08 PM »
Sure, I'll send it within the next hours erm days.
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Offline Eden

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2006, 10:19:01 PM »
It is still someone on this ?


Offline Da_venom

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2006, 06:08:22 AM »
ask Jester :D if so could you send some progress picturess?

Offline Aragorn II

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2006, 01:27:04 PM »
I also would like to know how much progress has been made on this project.

Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #88 on: February 10, 2006, 04:37:12 PM »
Sure, I'll send it within the next hours erm days.
erm years

As soon as I get on it again I will trumpet it on the streets. Now where did I put those files.
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Offline icelus

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #89 on: February 10, 2006, 05:48:10 PM »
Everyone, point accusingly at Jester.
<Moongaze> Luckily BWL has a very understanding and friendly admin.

Offline Da_venom

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2006, 06:22:48 PM »
Points at Jester *bad BAD boy!
would you lose your head if it wasn't attached jester :P :P?

we want too see your great modding skills don't let us wait

Offline Aragorn II

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2006, 06:23:43 PM »
*points accusingly at Jester*  :P

Offline Eden

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2006, 11:44:23 PM »
*points accusingly at Jester*

:)

As far ive seen its another thread, but about a hypological rebuild of all Aktatala, not sure of where, if i find it again i'll tell there.

Just in case.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #93 on: February 15, 2006, 03:19:25 PM »
Hypothetical rebuild. Something in the range of quite simple & easy (make all of those blank doors, mostly in Waukeen's, actually have rooms inside so all the Commoners have someplace to live), to middle-of-the-road and quite doable (add new doors to all of the buildings in the game that currently only exist for decorative purposes, a large number of which are in the Slums), to ridiculously complex and will-never-happen (completely redo the entire city, so that all the Districts are logically arranged in relation to one another, the Temple District wasn't built right on top of a goddamn lake [and still somehow has a sewer system underneath], the Delryn Estate isn't eight stories tall, all of the Waylay areas are incorporated into some all-new Districts, etc).

A couple of my mod ideas pretty much assume that the middle-of-the-road Expanded Athkatla will someday happen--for instance, one recruitable NPC lives in the orange building right on the other side of the NE exit from the Promenade (there's already a door there), and another lives in the old lighthouse in the Docks.

Offline Eden

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #94 on: February 18, 2006, 08:54:17 PM »
Its exactly what i was waiting for, but it might still be a lot of work isnt it ?

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2006, 06:15:32 PM »
...it might still be a lot of work isnt it ?
I've never edited map areas myself, so I could be completely wrong on this, but from what I've heard, simply adding doors and similar transitions from one area to another are pretty easy. You just find an existing door that looks pretty much what you want the new door to look like (same size & shape, angle to the viewer, etc.), copy that image, and slap it where you want the door to be. Then you edit the "trigger layer" of the map, so that when you mouse-over that spot, the pointer changes to the "Door Here" pointer, etc., and you tell the program what area file that door leads to. There's already been at least one mod that does this: it takes the building just north of the Copper Coronet and makes it accessible to the player (it's some kind of Dwarf-themed Inn), although I haven't seen any reviews.

I'm not sure what happens if two different mods edit the same map area. I expect that the newer one will simply overwrite the older.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2006, 02:40:27 AM »
Adding a new transition between areas is easy enough. Adding a new opening/closing animation... isn't. You'd have to do some serious graphical work, and even then I've really got no idea how to go about patching it into the area.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2006, 02:43:38 PM »
Adding a new opening/closing animation... isn't.
You mean "what the local area looks like with the door closed" and "what the local area looks like with the door open?" Hm. It sounds rather odd that that should be tricky to pull off, but I'll take your word for it.

 

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