Author Topic: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade  (Read 43113 times)

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2005, 02:28:38 AM »
That's probably just Yet Another Bioware Mistake (TM),
Indeed. It seems that the Khan and his followers were written by at least two people: One wrote the Journal entries ("Dealing with the Trademeet Genies") and the combat scripts: Anger a Dao and his first response is a Flesh to Stone (which apparently has no save). The other person made Khan Zahraa call himself a Dao Djinn and gave Taquee the Bottle of Djinni Summoning.

Question: When you cast (Limited) Wish, is the call answered by a Djinni or a genie? Judging by the tradition that it will attempt to pervert your wish into the worst possible interpretation that the wording allows, one would expect its alignment to be Lawful WhateverYouAren't. But this doesn't really mesh too well with the alignments you describe.....hmm.

Okay, back on topic now! :D
« Last Edit: June 26, 2005, 12:12:38 PM by SixOfSpades »

Offline irenicus

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2005, 04:36:53 AM »
Why did Khalid have to die anyway? i never understood that part

Offline Idobek

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2005, 05:54:04 AM »
1) BioWare wanted a Jaheira romance.
or
2) They couldn't be bothered to write for Khalid.
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Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2005, 10:59:42 AM »
@Rabain: I think the lower left part already shouts that it wants to lead to another part of the sewers. (Rabain's pic again: http://www.blackwyrmlair.net/~rabain/images/AR0603.jpg) This does not prevent the dungeon1/Illych part to be on the other side of Faerun as they are connected by portals. Question is how the STs got there, but it leaves all sorts of options and my thief charcters always liked the sewers anyway. I would recommend to just duplicate the sewers under the temple district and add different stuff. Being similar is a key elemt to the endless wading through sewers feeling IMO. (See AR701: http://www.blackwyrmlair.net/%7Echevar/Community/Areas/BG2/bg2_dmaps.html)

@Circus tent: Why not simply replace the inside of the tent? AR607 (same link as above) It could be a trade fair and would need much less remodelling. Just get rid of the guard and you could put all sorts of shops inside.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2005, 11:12:41 AM »
The Saradush sewer area (AR5013) looks extremely similar but has a somewhat different layout, so I recommend using that :).
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Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2005, 12:21:08 PM »
Why not simply replace the inside of the tent? AR607 (same link as above) It could be a trade fair and would need much less remodelling. Just get rid of the guard and you could put all sorts of shops inside.
True, but to me, that feels like a band-aid fix, since it would leave the caged animals and flying machines outside left dangling, completely unexplained.

Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2005, 12:30:41 PM »
They are not really part of the circus to me or at least not that anybody mentions that IIRC, but for sure I'll be proven wrong within seconds.
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Offline Rabain

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2005, 01:17:41 PM »
If somebody really wanted to do this they could just draw a layout of a unique sewer system and I could put it together using exisitng sewer graphics.

I both loved and hated the BG city sewers from BG1, you could feel you were lost down there!
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Offline irenicus

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2005, 02:12:06 PM »
lazy gits i must say LAZY!!!! more lazy then me, and i dont even go to school for heavens sake.... not that heaven gives a -cars beep and a lorry goes by-  anyway... this looks cool... but i still think it was under waukeens promanade... -looks dumn- ill shut up cus i dont even know what im talking about,... basically, i think its under the big town center, because theres only one portal, that takes you up a level of the dungeon, then on that boring game movie it says

"the tunnel slopes upwards into the welcome glare of daylight" or some crap like that, so its just a tunnel up basically :-S

Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2005, 02:39:44 PM »
You do have a point with the sloping part, but still I would agree with Rabain that it might be just the sewers collapsing after the blast which lead you to daylight.
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Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2005, 02:13:15 AM »
They are not really part of the circus to me or at least not that anybody mentions that IIRC, but for sure I'll be proven wrong within seconds.
Well, again, it might be just a coincidence that Fearghus, the animal trainer from the circus, is standing on that odd wooden scaffolding that seems to connect the Snake cage with the Moose/Squirrel one.....


It's quite possible that the only entrance to CI was through the sewers, since there was more than one large explosion. You "hear" the first one as you turn the corner towards the Lightning Mephit Generator, so theoretically, Irenicus could have blasted some Shadow Thieves off his doorstep, accidentally brought down the roof of the sewer system in the process, climbed up out of the rubble to emerge in Waukeen's Promenade, and finally released another major explosion (which sealed the passage that the first one opened), just after the party emerged.
Of course, this scenario would work equally as well if the main entrance to CI was aboveground in the Promenade, not through the sewers at all.

Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2005, 03:57:12 AM »
They are not really part of the circus to me or at least not that anybody mentions that IIRC, but for sure I'll be proven wrong within seconds.
Well, again, it might be just a coincidence that Fearghus, the animal trainer from the circus, is standing on that odd wooden scaffolding that seems to connect the Snake cage with the Moose/Squirrel one.....

Ok I can see your triumphant smirk from here. ::) Why did I never consider the animals in the cages an integral part?

First everything was always about how Kalah made THE Circus his own private kingdom, when in fact he just used the main tent and left everybody else outside the tent alone. Secondly I have yet to talk to Feargus, but he could reply that he separated from the circus for whatever reason. I am trying to find a fitting solution to the space problem which I can present asap, but I'd rather go with the many tents option than many other mundane stalls which litter the main space.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 06:05:12 AM by jester »
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Offline cliffette

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2005, 05:20:58 AM »
I'd buy the theory that the trainer farctured from the circus after the horrific doppelganger experience - therefore the four people inside the tent can pack up their two tables and leave, paving the way for whatever you wish to place inside the tent (rabid chickens? A saucy Wild Orcs strip show?). Fearghus can hang around outside wondering how he's going to pack up his animals and transport them to where he wishes them to go, as it's alot for one man to handle.

The flying machines I never associated with the circus. They're just kind of there.

And lovely work on the Promenade, by the way. :)

Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2005, 06:04:44 AM »
Thanks, cliffette!

Actually I really liked the women in front of Gaelan's place with her trained chicken number. So it could be either sideshow people or travelling salesmen for me.
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Offline Da_venom

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2005, 01:20:30 PM »
hail to all those lovely chickens then :P

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2005, 03:42:43 PM »
...paving the way for whatever you wish to place inside the tent (rabid chickens? A saucy Wild Orcs strip show?). Fearghus can hang around outside wondering how he's going to pack up his animals and transport them to where he wishes them to go, as it's alot for one man to handle.
Incidentally, the other mod I mentioned was one where you (a PC of any class except Monk or pure Druid) can take ownership of the Copper Coronet and, in one path, fill in the gladitorial pits in the back rooms to make room for....the circus. The circus as it SHOULD have been, with dancing bears, magic shows, knife throwers, songs, etc. Fearghus and his menagerie can easily move into the quarters vacated by the Beastmaster & Co.

Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2005, 04:36:27 PM »
Interesting. Which mod is this? A link perhaps?
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Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2005, 04:09:31 AM »
Sorry, forgot to mention that any "link" to this mod would only lead into my own somewhat demented imagination. But it does have to do with moving the circus, so it deserved a mention here.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2005, 12:52:27 PM by SixOfSpades »

Offline Xaos_Bob

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2005, 01:52:42 PM »
Great idea, and one I've been wondering about for some time, Jester. My suggestions:

Since it isn't the original construction, workmen or architect, the new arch should probably look stylistically different from the rest of the Promenade. Perhaps no lions, or darker stone, or the dome strangely off-tint--something simple (so it's easy) but obvious (so it's visible). To ward off players who would say, "It's amateurish (which, I must add, your work is very much not..XB)! It doesn't even match!" have a couple townsfolk commenting how it doesn't match, and what is the world coming to, and such.

Get rid of the damnable circus. By the time reconstruction begins, the circus should damn well be gone, too (people died, after all). The persisting circus (and the persisting useless exhibits outside) has always irked me.

Though not in the Promenade, how about the tents of the genies outside Trademeet?
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Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2005, 02:48:23 PM »


@Circus: I am working on a version that fills the space with something different, but I am hesitant to to put in too many NPCs, because work and lack of ideas and all. This might change in the progress.

@Visible differences:
 I think one of the images shows that the replaced portion of the promenade features lighter stone than the old part and is a visible wedge right of the passageway. The passageway proper is still in experimentation to change it only slightly and make it look new. The architect could either be a bureaucrat or a Prism-like character a little bit out of touch with reality or something. As soon as I am satisfied with the results and finished with more pressing projects I post another image for comments. ;)
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Offline Da_venom

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2005, 04:10:11 PM »
well if you want to replace the circus you will need to edit some scripts as well

and replace some character related characters

the wingless idiot's uncle:P

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2005, 06:23:54 AM »
Remember to take into account the messenger who asks you to go see Quayle, so he can send you off to help Raelis Shai.
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Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2005, 01:45:43 AM »
If there's a mod to move the Circus somewhere else, then Quayle and Aerie will obviously go there with it. But if the Circus is simply removed, (which it very well might be: With total assets of two roulette tables, three animals, and a big tent, Quayle might as well just chuck the whole thing), then they should have someplace else to go.

Raelis Shai does make sense, but that means considering whether or not the party has done the Planar Prison, which is more complicated than this needs to be. (It works as far as Quayle sending an in-party Aerie to come see him at the Five Flagons, but I'm thinking broader-scale here.) Quayle's good with finances, so I say let him get a job helping Ribald while Aeire learns what she can from Lady Yuth.

And then there's the (admittedly remote) possibility that the party puts off doing the Circus quest until Chapter 6, meaning that the change to the Waukeen's map removes that opportunity. In that eventuality, it might be neat to have a few Commoners (e.g., the Harrolds) talk about how great it was that some other adventuring party came and saved the Circus. Continuing on this tangent, Let's say you can actually meet this other party some time down the road: Maybe you fight, maybe you don't. Maybe you convince Aerie to transfer right from their party to yours--if your alignment/conversation responses are closer to Lawful Good than the leader of the other party. I might almost suggest that the leader of the other party be a Bhaalspawn, but that's getting a little too parallel universe-y. But still Quest Pack, though.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2005, 01:51:26 PM by SixOfSpades »

Offline Bex

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2005, 02:26:03 AM »
If removing the circus, you'd also have to add a check for it to Keldorn's family quest. If you reunite them, he offers to take them to the circus. A lot of commoners refer to you "saving the circus" too.

And speaking of the Harrolds, has it ever bothered anyone else that Mrs. Harrold comes and goes, and Mr. Harrold does the "and now my wife's missing too" speech when she's not there, but there's no explanation?
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Offline jester

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Re: Rebuilding Waukeen's Promenade
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2005, 08:51:06 AM »
I liked the missed opportunity idea, but the scope of this mod (modpart whatever) is clearly not to write an entire mod around parallel universes, circus wanderings and previously undreamt off sidequests. If that was directed at Sim then go right ahead, since he can do it with ease once he returns.
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