Author Topic: Racial Armour, Shields, and various thoughts from the mind of Ghreyfain  (Read 4154 times)

Offline Ghreyfain

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Okay, so the racial armour bit is pretty nifty, except for the fact that every shopkeeper and their mother carries armour of every type, for every race.  I think armour should be rarer for non-humans in shops (unless you're shopping in Gullykin, for instance).

The shields being suited to different races, however, seems to make less sense to me.  I mean, whatever you do some of it isn't going to make sense, like a halfling with a shield that's as large for him as for a human, but why couldn't a halfling use a human small shield as a large shield?  Two shields sized for either a 32 inch waist or 36 inch waist human are just as usable as the other.  Not so for armour, of course.
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Offline Echon

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Given how relatively common demihumans are in human lands, everything from leather armor to splint mail should be available everywhere, I believe. Plate mails should probably be a bit rarer than they are, although I am not entirely sure how rare they are for demihumans because I cannot make NI work any longer. If you have been to Taerom's smithy you should have noticed that the only full plate mail he has is made for humans.

As for shields, the only reason why it does not work the way you mention is because it is impossible to implement really. I would like it to be that way.

-Echon

Offline Ghreyfain

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Given how relatively common demihumans are in human lands, everything from leather armor to splint mail should be available everywhere, I believe. Plate mails should probably be a bit rarer than they are, although I am not entirely sure how rare they are for demihumans because I cannot make NI work any longer. If you have been to Taerom's smithy you should have noticed that the only full plate mail he has is made for humans.

I was thinking about the plate mail that the merchant in Nashkel sells, specifically, and sort of assumed the other stores were similar.  My point is that yeah, sure, there might be a suit or two for demi-humans, but all the suits of armour in varieties for all races?  Would be cooler if one store sold, say, a few suits of elven leather, dwarven chain and plate, and splint for halflings, simply because that's what he wound up with via trade somehow.  Taerom might be different, of course.

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As for shields, the only reason why it does not work the way you mention is because it is impossible to implement really. I would like it to be that way.

I would, too, but I think the best compromise is to just let all races use all shields.  The silliness of being able to exchange large for large between halfling and human seems smaller than the silliness of a human being unable to use a halfling shield.
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Offline Echon

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I was thinking about the plate mail that the merchant in Nashkel sells, specifically, and sort of assumed the other stores were similar.  My point is that yeah, sure, there might be a suit or two for demi-humans, but all the suits of armour in varieties for all races?  Would be cooler if one store sold, say, a few suits of elven leather, dwarven chain and plate, and splint for halflings, simply because that's what he wound up with via trade somehow.  Taerom might be different, of course.

I guess a little variation might be a good way to make the stores different from each other. I have already been working towards that goal and this will probably expand it. In addition, you might need to visit several shops to get the things you want.

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I would, too, but I think the best compromise is to just let all races use all shields.  The silliness of being able to exchange large for large between halfling and human seems smaller than the silliness of a human being unable to use a halfling shield.

You know, I would probably agree with you if it was not for the fact that this equals tons of work for me. ;D

-Echon

Offline SimDing0™

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One of the fun parts of BG1 was the anticipation of encountering the first set of plate mail/full plate available to buy. If you can get either of those straight out of Candlekeep, it takes said anticipation away. The same applies to quality of weapons. Ideally, everything before Beregost would be low/regular quality, the Beregost smithy would sell some regular/high quality stuff, and by the time you get to Baldur's Gate, the smithies are making high-quality gear, and you've got some magical stuff to boot. Just a though.

Offline Ghreyfain

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There's still that part of it, yeah.  I was quite pleased when I bought my first set of plate in Nashkel.

You can't buy plate mail in Candlekeep--even if you could, you couldn't afford it.  I wasn't even able to buy chain mail with my cleric--or the Friendly Arm.  I was thinking it just seems odd that both the Friendly Arm and Beregost and Nashkel and Candlekeep all have leather, studded, chain, and splint in varieties for each race.
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Offline Echon

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Taerom has always had plate mails and a full plate mail for sale. Plate mails are more expensive than before and the full plate mail simply costs a fortune. This is why I made the bronze plate mails. The Sword Coast is suffering through an iron crisis and here is a cheap, although slightly less effective, alternative.

A lot of the weapons in Candlekeep are of low quality. There are still some regular weapons, though, as I did not think making them all low quality would be realistic. Taerom has high quality versions of all weapons that involve steel but they are still costly compared to normal weapons. High quality versions of other weapon types are harder to find but still available before magical weapons.

I see the reason behind binding equipment quality to level progression but in the case of this game I do not think it is justified ingame. Taerom is advertised everywhere as the best smith along the entire Sword Coast. Baldur's Gate does not even have a real smithy.

-Echon
« Last Edit: May 24, 2005, 05:24:14 PM by Echon »

Offline Ghreyfain

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That sounds good to me, yes.  I haven't actually visited Taerom yet, so I haven't seen any bronze plate mail.
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Grog

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For the most part, I like the racial armor feature of FotD.  However, I do have one question:

Shouldn't Half-elves be able to wear Elven OR Human armor?

Offline Echon

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I assume you mean 'Elven AND Human' armor because at the moment they can only use the elven varieties. I think I only allowed them the use of elven armors because they look like elves in every way.

-Echon

Offline Salk

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One questions: Mods that are going to add new magical Armours, Shields and Weapons, would have such items modified in some way by FotD (like it would happen introducing Composite Long Bows) ?

Offline Marauder

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Since the ability to use an item is defined when making the item itself, that would not be possible.
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Offline Galactygon

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Echon, you could solve the shield issue by having an .eff file set to small shields for smaller races, giving AC bonuses (in addition to the normal AC bonus given by the shields themlselves) as if a large shield is equipped.

Or, alternatively (at least in BG2), you could use an .eff file that replaces the small shield with a large shield that uses the same inventory .bam and description (via destroy item and create item in slot), by giving players the impression (on the paperdoll) they are equipping a large shield, in addition to any AC bonuses. When a larger race equips that shield, you do the reverse replacing through .eff files; just like for smaller races.

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Offline Echon

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I did consider something along the lines of what you suggest, but for now I am going to stick with what I have already done.

-Echon

Grog

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I assume you mean 'Elven AND Human' armor because at the moment they can only use the elven varieties.


Aparently, I went 'or' since they can only wear one at a time. :)

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I think I only allowed them the use of elven armors because they look like elves in every way.

True, but height/weight wise they they aren't that different from either race.


 

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