Archived Posts - Sarevok's Remorse and Yoshimo's Diary

[SeanFan]

I've installed the newest version of UB, so I was wondering at what point I should expect to see the dialogs where Saravok starts expressing remorse for Tamoko & Yoshimo's deaths. The saved game I'm playing was very early in TOB with Saravok in the party, so I'm hoping to see the new stuff. I didn't ask Saravok to give an oath, and my PC has been telling him he deserves a second chance, etc. so I hope all the conditions have been met.

We just defeated Yaga Shura, and there's been no mention of Tamoko yet. Does it happen at a particular place in the story, or after a  certain dialog? (Saravok is still CE, BTW.)

Thanks!

[the bigg]

From the readme:

If you start a new game in ToB but wish to assume you say the SoA part soon, then using the CLUAConsole to SetGlobal("U!SIlmater","GLOBAL",1) is all that's needed.

[SeanFan]

From the readme:

If you start a new game in ToB but wish to assume you say the SoA part soon, then using the CLUAConsole to SetGlobal("U!SIlmater","GLOBAL",1) is all that's needed.

I saw that. However, a) I'm not starting a new game, I'm playing a saved game, and b) "wish to assume you say the SoA part soon" makes absolutely no sense. At least not in English.

[Sovran]

The dialogue should trigger between the 1st and 2nd Bioware dialogues, and directly after a fight.  If all else fails, though, you can SetGlobal("U!SRemorse","GLOBAL",1) .

"wish to assume you say the SoA part soon"

Huh?

[SeanFan]

The dialogue should trigger between the 1st and 2nd Bioware dialogues, and directly after a fight.  If all else fails, though, you can SetGlobal("U!SRemorse","GLOBAL",1) .

By any chance, do you remember what the second Bioware dialog is? (I suspect I've already seen it.)

"wish to assume you say the SoA part soon"

Huh?

Precisely my reaction. That is, however, what the ReadMe says. Care to offer a translation? 

[Sovran]

By any chance, do you remember what the second Bioware dialog is? (I suspect I've already seen it.)

"It appears the seeds that our sire sowed long ago are about to come to fruition.  For good or ill, the issue will be finally resolved very soon."

Had you already had that conversation in your saved game?  ... Or did our stuff just fail to trigger?

Precisely my reaction. That is, however, what the ReadMe says. Care to offer a translation? 

Oh. That is to say: "set the variable, like so, if you want to assume you've seen the SoA content (which involves Yoshimo -- ergo, you get to discuss his side of the triangle.)"    It doesn't affect when/how/whether the dialogue pops up, just the options you get.

[Andyr]

It's possible I typoed in the readme; it's meant to read something lilke if you wish to assume you played the SoA part

[SeanFan]

By any chance, do you remember what the second Bioware dialog is? (I suspect I've already seen it.)

"It appears the seeds that our sire sowed long ago are about to come to fruition.  For good or ill, the issue will be finally resolved very soon."

Had you already had that conversation in your saved game?  ... Or did our stuff just fail to trigger?

Yesterday I got the cute banter where Saravok gets irritated that Boo is looking at him, which looks like it happens right before the one you listed. So I'll wait and see if it triggers on it's own, and goose it with the CLUA command if it doesn't.

Thanks for the help.

[SeanFan]

It's possible I typoed in the readme

Ya think? 

Sorry. I usually don't give people a hard time about typos, but that one puzzled me mightily.

[Andyr]

Yes, I think it was possible.

[Grim Squeaker]

Does this appear in game?

Yoshimo hasn't been very conscientious about keeping a diary.  The first pages are filled with haphazard notes of tasks completed, rewards collected, friends gained and enemies befuddled.  A few letters written on fine paper in elegant, feminine hand have been stowed between the pages, with some amused remarks scribbled in the margins.

Although still not very orderly, more regular entries begin a little over a year ago.


"29 Mirtul, 1358

Went over some old letters - it has been three years since I saw Tamoko?  That can't be right.

'The Suave' sets sail at high tide.  Captain's niece is possessed of a most inconvenient keenness for imported goods.  I suppose it's a vain hope that she'd have no stomach for the sea, so I wouldn't need to keep to my cabin to avoid her.  Second mate seems cardsharp enough.

13 Eleint, 1358

Athkatla is as pleasantly avaricious as ever, but some elaborately disinterested sneakspeople patrol outside my inn, throwing dirty glares my way.  The thieves' guild obviously feels I've overstayed my welcome again.  Maybe I should concentrate on finding Tamoko, for a change.

18 Eleint, 1358

No sense in heading out to the mountains at night; bided my time in Crimmor listening to the word about town.  To my surprise, heard a few travelers talk about that Sarevok fellow that Tamoko has mentioned.  Great expectations, connections to the Iron Throne, cuts a fine figure, casts a dark shade - same man.  Sounds like he has caused some kind of stir in Baldur's Gate.

She has written of him often, but little.  He sounded like trouble, but I trust she has had the good sense to stay out of it.  She did sound quite committed to him, though.

25 Eleint, 1358

Spent the night at the Jovial Juggler in Beregost.  A drunken mercenary insisted on sampling my katana - either end of it.  Distracted him with an order to the innkeeper to bring a sample from several of his barrels, and to keep them coming.

Before disappearing somewhere under the table for what I expect to be the better part of the week, the man slurred a few alarming things about the ruckus back down in Baldur's Gate.  I can only hope Tamoko hasn't been involved.

According to the gentleman, everyone is now so very excited about someone called <CHARNAME>, who has done in that Sarevok and all.  He went on to pontificate, however, that something's just not right about that <CHARNAME>, either, that one day this new toast of the town will flip out just like the last one.  Apparently he has seen both Sarevok and <CHARNAME> once, from afar, across a crowd, maybe, so he would know.

8 Marpenoth, 1358

Scouring the streets of Baldur's Gate for the past few days and nights.  Iron Throne headquarters in a state of embarrassing disarray.  Found the inn Tamoko mentioned as her last resort: dingy, bootleg, beneath her.  Spotted her in the innkeeper's book under a false name, with a bill left behind on 12th of Flamerule. Snuck out before the man thought of making me pay up.

10 Marpenoth, 1358

Heard a couple of Flaming Fist soldiers talk about <CHARNAME>, who single-handedly slew that nutcase bastard Sarevok and all his followers.  They went on to describe <PRO_HISHER> flaming eyes, thundering voice and seven-mile stride.  I left.

11 Marpenoth, 1358

(A slip of paper torn from an account book, marked with the symbol of Kelemvor, is folded between the pages of the journal:)

HUMAN FEMALE; AGE APPROX. 30; KARA-TURAN?
--  ALLEY NEAR BLACK DRAGON GATE
--  NO OVERT SIGNS OF VIOLENCE, DISEASE, OR DECAY; CAUSE OF DEATH MAGICAL?
--  FULL PLATE MAIL INSCRIBED WITH BANITE INSIGNIA; ORIENTAL CHARACTER FILIGREED IN GOLD OVER THE HEART; SOLD TO SORCEROUS SUNDRIES FOR 17,000

BURIED

13 Marpenoth, 1358

Either Sarevok or <CHARNAME> may have killed her.  But she did believe in Sarevok, at the time, and Sarevok is beyond my revenge.

15 Marpenoth, 1358

Some festival or another was celebrated in the city, and I saw <CHARNAME> from a distance near the Ducal Palace - <PRO_HESHE> did not look like someone who could manage to kill my sister.

16 Marpenoth, 1358

I dreamed of Tamoko, as I often do now, but I remember very little of the dream.  Only her face is branded under my eyelids, afterimage of the sun.

18 Marpenoth, 1358

I was noticed.  A pallid woman in black leather stopped me tonight in the tavern where I sat, watching <CHARNAME>.

'You are the talented young man who has been asking so many questions about <CHARNAME>,' she said and shoved her cold cleavage at me.  'Don't worry, your violent wishes will be granted before long.  You need only do exactly as I tell you.'

She bid me follow her into the chill night, and down the damp alleyways until we came to the place where the city forgets its nameless dead.  There, she pointed me to a grave among rows upon rows of graves, each recycled as the old inhabitants rot away.  This one lay dug open.

The woman opened the shoddy coffin, and therein lay Tamoko, tucked into her sleep like a child.  Dead.

20 Marpenoth, 1358

Bodhi works for a masked man named Irenicus, at least in theory.  They assure me that it was <CHARNAME> who killed my sister.  And that I will get my revenge - only first I must bring <PRO_HIMHER> to Irenicus.  Alive.

22 Marpenoth, 1358

I need not dream in mirages anymore: I have the reality, Tamoko's face settled into an unnatural serenity that not even decay can disturb.  She had not rotted; she's not going away.

There is only one way to be certain.  And, even if I am wrong - none of us is innocent.  One way or another, she will be avenged.

23 Marpenoth, 1358

Irenicus demanded an oath of me - a geas - so I swore it.  I hardly even feel it now; it's only a pinch at the base of my skull.

8 Alturiak, 1359

<CHARNAME> and <PRO_HISHER> party were captured.  Blood was shed, but Irenicus has caged my quarry as far away from me as possible, and trying to impress - or force - my point upon him proved most physically unwise.

Irenicus did promise, though, that sight would return to my right eye in a few days, and ordered me to apply proper patience to my vengefulness.  We are heading south.

15 Ches, 1359

In Athkatla.  Obviously, this underground fortress wasn't constructed in a day.

Since we arrived, Irenicus has been busy making the full use of his new guests.  He won't stand me in the way of his work, and I haven't made the mistake of sneaking over to steal a glance again.

The screams get on my nerves, so I have wandered the streets to keep from thinking about what transpires underneath.  Whatever it is he's doing to them, I wish he would hurry.

20 Ches, 1359

Bodhi has spent her time establishing herself in the streets of the city, preying on the Shadow Thieves.  She, too, has definitely started on her work earlier, though.

I try to steer clear of the short, brutal skirmishes.  I feel a need to preserve even some measure of dissociation.

26 Ches, 1359

Irenicus does not spare me much attention, and I have managed to study some papers of his that, I believe, were never meant for my eyes.  There are a lot of notes about <CHARNAME>, and about <PRO_HISHER> 'potential'.  Earlier, I was too crazed to wonder about his motives.

27 Ches, 1359

One more note I found: an intercepted Iron Throne missive, with orders to the officials in the Baldur's Gate area to find and execute all and any former followers of Sarevok Anchev that happen to have survived <CHARNAME>'s assault.  The Throne brooks no double-dealing.

The list includes, but is not limited to, Winski Perorate, Angelo Dosan, Tazok the ogre, a conjurer called Semaj, Cythandria, and Tamoko.

18 Tarsakh, 1359

Finally Irenicus has plans for me - and <CHARNAME>.  He wants to lead <CHARNAME> on a wild goose chase all the way to his next lair, some kind of test run of this alleged potential - and he wants me to infiltrate <PRO_HISHER> group, so that I can monitor their progress.

Of course, I, too, must lie in a cage for a while first, for credibility.

25 Tarsakh, 1359

It's generally a bad idea to swear a geas when you have grief in place of knees and brain.


(The following entry was obviously written in a hurry, and left undated:)

Even though events did not proceed exactly as Irenicus had planned, the man is a master.  After and aside from <CHARNAME>'s untimely escape, everything has clicked into place with frightening precision.

I believe <CHARNAME> did kill Tamoko.  I cannot be sure, but in <CHARNAME>'s party I have had plenty of opportunity to assess <PRO_HISHER> ways, and it seems likely.  So is this my revenge - should this uncertain, powerless rage taste like victory?

But if I cannot feel triumph, that has no effect on the things to come.  We're sailing for Spellhold tonight.  The quarters on the ship will be far too close for comfort, so I had best dispose of this evidence."


This is the last entry in the journal.  About one third of the pages remain empty.

[Grim Squeaker]

Gah, Cam thinks this is mod content.  My bad.

Edit: Funny enough, it seems to be Unfinished Business (Assuming U! is UB)

[Xiao]

It's part of UB, yes - from the "Sarevok's Remorse" component.

[Grim Squeaker]

Ah, new stuff.  No wonder I didn't recognise it.

[SixOfSpades]

VERY interesting, although with some puzzling inconsistencies: CHARNAME's opportunities to kill Tamoko are outside the Flaming Fist headquarters and in the Undercity, neither of which are anywhere near the Black Dragon Gate, and it's hardly likely that the party would kill her in a way that would leave "NO OVERT SIGNS OF VIOLENCE, DISEASE, OR DECAY."

Yoshimo mentions that Tamoko's body is not decaying, yet fails to remark on how odd this is. Given the suggestion that her death was caused by some magical means, a likely conclusion (especially to a brother) is that she's not dead at all, merely under some enchantment or curse, and there is likely time to have it reversed.

This is an excellent diary, but completely fails to mesh with the fact that in all of Yoshimo's banters with the party and CHARNAME, he never once mentions Tamoko, or even Sarevok. Although I assume that is already being taken care of in the mod work.

[Xiao]

You don't have to be the one to kill Tamoko in BG1, however, and that possibility is accounted for in the dialogue with Sarevok.

[Sovran]

(Various spoilers ahead, okay? Don't say you were never warned.)

CHARNAME's opportunities to kill Tamoko are outside the Flaming Fist headquarters and in the Undercity, neither of which are anywhere near the Black Dragon Gate, and it's hardly likely that the party would kill her in a way that would leave "NO OVERT SIGNS OF VIOLENCE, DISEASE, OR DECAY."

It's magic?

We had to juggle the jigsaw somehow to match the ToB (epilogue) assumption: one way or another, Tamoko is dead. The tricky part is, of course, that we don't know when, where, or how she died, or if it was the PC who killed her.

So the particulars of Tamoko's death are purposefully left a mystery in the journal as well. Maybe Irenicus and/or Bodhi found the body and preserved it for the purpose of recruiting Yoshimo; maybe they killed her themselves; maybe something else magical and sinister. Yoshimo asking the PC what, exactly, happened seems way too contrived -- he couldn't do that without the risk of blowing his cover (and possibly defying his geas.)

I'm not sure that this is the optimal juggle, but it seemed functional enough. If you have suggestions on how to improve it, though, please don't be coy.

Yoshimo mentions that Tamoko's body is not decaying, yet fails to remark on how odd this is. Given the suggestion that her death was caused by some magical means, a likely conclusion (especially to a brother) is that she's not dead at all, merely under some enchantment or curse, and there is likely time to have it reversed.

True enough. It seemed like a good idea to keep that part of the diary fairly understated, to avoid splashing too much anguish and melodrama around. I may have gone overboard on that one, though.

in all of Yoshimo's banters with the party and CHARNAME, he never once mentions Tamoko, or even Sarevok. Although I assume that is already being taken care of in the mod work.

Well, I can only hope. What basically happens in the additional Yoshimo banter is that he tries to figure whether the PC would have killed any minion of Sarevok's just because they were in the way, or whether s/he might have shown mercy. (There are actually three different versions of the last entry of the journal, above -- based on your dialogue choices, Yoshimo may or may not be inclined to believe that you killed Tamoko.) As I said, I don't think confronting the PC about Tamoko's fate is really an option for Yoshimo.

[SixOfSpades]

CHARNAME's opportunities to kill Tamoko are outside the Flaming Fist headquarters and in the Undercity, neither of which are anywhere near the Black Dragon Gate, and it's hardly likely that the party would kill her in a way that would leave "NO OVERT SIGNS OF VIOLENCE, DISEASE, OR DECAY."

We had to juggle the jigsaw somehow to match the ToB (epilogue) assumption: one way or another, Tamoko is dead. The tricky part is, of course, that we don't know when, where, or how she died, or if it was the PC who killed her.

I'm not sure that this is the optimal juggle, but it seemed functional enough. If you have suggestions on how to improve it, though, please don't be coy.

I think a better place for her body to be found would be the Undercity. Assuming that the party didn't kill her in the encounter outside the Flaming Fist, she heads down there and could quite logically be killed by either
a) The party, for trying to stop their quest to kill Sarevok,
b) The group sent by the Iron Throne, because she's one of Sarevok's followers,
c) Some contingent from Baldur's Gate, sent to scour the place for any of Sarevok's minions,
d) Sarevok himself, in his mad rage, or even
e) Irenicus, Bodhi, or any assorted minions, who may have been watching from the sidelines: An opportunity to capture 2 Bhaalspawn (or even 3, given the presence of Imoen) for the price of 1? Count me in.

Of course, of these people, only Irenicus or Bodhi could have killed her without apparently doing her any physical harm (Finger of Death / Rapture of the Father and Level Drain, respectively), and they're the ones with the lowest odds of being present. So perhaps the 'death by unknown magical means' should be dropped. The incorruptibility of her corpse also tends to cause misleading ideas of resurrecting her, and is, in my opinion, unnecessary, so I think that should be dropped too. A man's quest to avenge his murdered sister is dramatic enough without additional mysterious and unexplained circumstances.

Your idea to have Yoshimo obliquely probe CHARNAME on the issues of mercy and forgiveness is a good one.

[Sovran]

I'm pretty sure I had some reason for not dropping her in the Undercity to begin with, but I can't for the life of me recall what it was. Embarrassing. Anyway, true, the Undercity would seem to make more sense.

The incorruptibility bit was mostly to cover up a hole in the plot, again -- when Yoshimo finds Tamoko, she may have been dead for a week, or for months. And after a time, identifying the body wouldn't be easy. Of course, that could be easier to solve than one more gratuitous mystery.

A man's quest to avenge his murdered sister is dramatic enough without additional mysterious and unexplained circumstances.

Really, I tend to agree. A shame about those unexplained circumstances.

Thanks for the input, and the kind words.

[Bex]

Just a thought, but isn't the Undercity kind of a big secret, and not someplace anyone would be stumbling across bodies? If she were moved, planted somewhere that she would be found... now that would make sense.

Also, if Tamoko was written to have identifying marks/possessions (other than the sold armour), decay would be less of an issue. The length, colour, and style of her hair could also be an identifying mark.

[SixOfSpades]

Well, after the fiasco of the coronation ceremony, it's safe to assume that all eyes are on Sarevok. Where he runs to is no secret--it's been a long time, but I believe it's Belt himself who teleports you into the Thieves' Guild, and while you're carving your way through the Thieves' Maze, it's safe to assume that the militia of Baldur's Gate are mustering to follow in your wake and help kill that bastard Sarevok. That the Undercity would become known to the general public (especially after your heroic return from the depths) is practically a foregone conclusion.

Good call with the hair, though. An item such as a piece of jewelry could quite understandably be taken and worn by someone else, but who would tie their hair back and wind ribbons through it in a characteristically Kara-Turan fashion?

[Caedwyr]

Something I noticed that hasn't really been touched on elsewhere is why does Yoshimo ask for his heart to be taken to Illimater (sp?).  From a short piece of fanfic in fanfic forum, the author made this comment about Yoshimo's actions:

Second- the thing in the game that got me was Yoshimo asking his heart to be taken from his body once dead. I always wondered about that. Kara-Tur's customs are that if one of there people are killed outside of their land, they'll never be able to 'trancend' (I used becoming ancestors to do that- that's actually an element from the WoD, but it sounded pretty, that once someone in Kara-Tur died, their family could talk to their spirit and still be guided by them). Kara-Tur also shares the custom that if someone is killed unjustily, they'll be unable to rest until their heart is satisfied or some such nonsense (whether Tomoko's death was unjust or not is for someone else to think over- Yoshi thinks it is). Err, at any rate, by taking his heart away from his body, it's unlikely that Yoshimo will ever be able to 'transend' even if taken back to his homelands... I saw that as two different things. First, in a way, he was saying 'I'm not worthy of it' (which is why I immediately had to think of why), and two, it was his way of turning his back on his past. By asking it to be blessed by Illemeter, a god of a different panethon then the one he was raised in, I got the feeling he was saying 'I don't care anymore' or that 'Look at where following my past got me!'. In this story, honor and duty got both him and his sister killed. In this, he will spit upon such concepts even while devoting his last act to it. Of course, that's just my interuptitation... *hides*

Given this little bit of information about Kara-Tur customs, you'd expect there to be something mentioned in his diaries about why he chose to do this.  I guess you could always say he had converted to Illimater while on the Sword Coast, but he still seems pretty attached to Kara-Tur in his dialogues, and not disgruntled enough to be turning his back on his homeland.

Anyways, its something to consider.

[Kuemper]

Illmater is the god of suffering and his clerical pantheon is about easing suffering and pain in others. Maybe Yoshimo wants Illmater to take his torment (the betrayal of the party and  etc. with Tamoko) so he can be at ease after death.

Although that still doesn't work with the customs of his homeland, unless there's a backstory about why he's not in Kara-Tur.

[Callie]

Does anyone know when the new dialogue with the PC and Yoshimo is supposed to happen? I'm almost in Spellhold and still not a word from the little thief.  
Help?
Can I do something with Shadowkeeper?
Thanks.

[Caedwyr]

Sure, Illmater is the right god for what he's going through, but the thing is, Illmater isn't from the Pantheon that Yoshimo's homeland worships.  Also, by turning to Illmater, he basically removes all his chances of ever being reunited with his homeland, and having his spirit reside there (the spirit world is part of everyday life in Kara-Tur).