Author Topic: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz  (Read 7366 times)

Offline jester

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2005, 04:29:37 AM »
Slightly off topic, but would you have guessed that South Park turns out the be America's last line of defense when it comes to free speech?

back on track: Why did he murder whom? What does he have to say about it?

Let's suppose he was one of Donald's bodyguards and wanted to end the outrage by killing one tyrant and saving 100.000 lives or more like in the other very moral question suggested. He felt very strongly obliged. Can you blame a man for trying? (No, not the guy who fires his aprentices!)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 04:45:40 AM by jester »
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Offline Eral

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2005, 04:58:49 AM »
Do you mean my brother?
Killing a tyrant is not quite the same as killing someone who pisses you off on a personal level. (The latter is the one my brother is far more likely to do.) Killing a tyrant may provide a social good, which morally we can take into consideration, and then it becomes a grey moral area: terrorist/freedom fighter stuff.  Killing someone who pisses you off is harder to justify in terms of social good.
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Offline jester

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2005, 05:04:02 AM »
That is what I mean. Basically the questions are so vague that they are meaningless given the right circumstances.
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Offline Eral

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2005, 05:59:01 AM »
Your status as the founding member of IQSU is showing.
We know the quizzes are dumb. We are just not proud.  ;)
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Offline Regullus

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2005, 08:03:13 AM »
If I were really to dissect the quiz, yes, of course, it is fallible and shallow. I chose the test because in the elitist quiz some people did not like to be labeled and this test makes no judgement. As they stated, is moral parsimony bad or good, and there are many arguments in favor of a high moral parsimony.

 To address two questions on the quiz, turning one's brother in if he had seriously injured someone and would I be less likely to donate to Australia or the US or...then I would to donate to India in case of disaster.

 I chose to turn my brother in, and my reasoning was two-fold. One, if it is simply a matter a serious injury, then it is better to engage the justice system in an offensive manner than a defensive manner. Since the scenario was vague, I also assumed a situation where my brother (all apologies to my brother) committed a heinous act that I could not in good conscience support. I am strongly tied to my family but there are theorectical situations which could cause the relationship to be severed. I would expect no less from them.

 The other question had to do with whether I would donate to India in a disaster. I said yes. In the addendum to the question they asked if I would donate if the country was Australia and I forget their reasoning for the decline in the support which they said occurred when they substituted a richer country.

 Again, a vague scenario. This was my reasoning, if it was disaster along the lines of the recent tsunami, I would donate to any country(ies). There are few countries, if any, who could handle such a disaster. If it was a similiar disaster to the US's recent spate of hurricanes in Florida, I would not donate. The reason I would not donate is that I believe (rightly or wrongly) that Australia has a well-developed social assistance program and tragic as the event maybe, they are capable of handling the situation. I would have no problem with governments sending assistance in equipment, search and rescue, etc. but I would not feel personally motivated to provide monetary assistance.

 As to Cyber's belief that one should assist locally first, in many ways I agree. Forinstance, adoption, we have many children in this country who need good homes and I do feel that these American children should be provided with good homes before adopting another nation's children. A reason for many of these foriegn adoptions is the desire to procure a baby, and in the American system there a few babies available, many children and adolescents with possible severe emotional and behavioural  problems. On the other hand, there are many countries with no developed social emergency structures, and again, that motivates me to help those countries (in my insignificant way) than my own country which has an imperfect yet well-developed system. However, I have not adopted a child nor plan to in the future, I would perhaps consider fostering a child at some point. My hesitation comes from the knowledge that many of these children are dysfunctional and I would not want what is dear to me possibly injured.

 Which to my mind brings up a potentially interesting point. What constrains me (to some extent) in my life is potetial injury or hurt that I could bring to my loved ones as opposed to what I might do if I were unattached, not just single, but had no blood relatives and other ties.

 As to my quiz scores, I no longer remember my elitist results, or the full morality play score, but in the sins of omission section, I had a score in the nineties. As to the smallest, I could'nt make up my mind between moral persuasion or arming the workers. :-\

 

Offline Da_venom

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2005, 11:43:12 AM »
u sure?:P

Offline Regullus

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2005, 03:56:07 PM »
u sure?:P

 Yeah. "It's a condition of the condition I'm in." Now why I have "The Big Lebowski" on the brain is somewhat beyond me. :-\

Offline Da_venom

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2005, 05:54:01 PM »
the question's asked in the quiz are just too vague..
i mean there are just other factors that count too

Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2005, 06:47:37 AM »
The question that asks about turning in a relative - does anyone remember reading that the local authorities are corrupt?
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Offline jester

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2005, 06:53:40 AM »
True morality is what makes paladins a uniquely useless class. :P They never even fetch you a spoon from the next table, because it was meant for someone else.
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Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2005, 08:27:02 AM »
I don't know.  I think I'd like to see more of that kind of morality.

Are you really helping someone if you (have to) harm another to do it?

[edit] For the record, however, Paladins are usually too rigid a class.  That, to me, is what makes them useless.

I know that was a joke, Jester, but what if..  :-yin
« Last Edit: April 13, 2005, 08:30:54 AM by Cybersquirt »
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Offline Regullus

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2005, 11:28:52 AM »
The question that asks about turning in a relative - does anyone remember reading that the local authorities are corrupt?


 As I recall it was under the assumption that it was a relatively fair justice system.

 @Da_Venom - Yes the questions are vague but I think you may bring your own scenarios and precepts to the questions and perhaps that is a reason for the vagueness of the quiz.

 As to the "Do no harm" scenario, part of the nature of humanity is that we do cause "harm," if only inadvertant harm during our life paths as do all living beings to some extent but then we may bring unintentional or unintended "good" too.

 Ghandi is often pointed to as an elevated being and a good man but the consequences of his beliefs have caused unintentionally the deaths of 500,000+ people and caused the biggest migration in human history (I believe, this is from memory), with all the attendant misery,  and the death toll continues to rise (Kashmir).

 @Caedwyr - I agree with your point, and I actually think you got a very high score. Is altruisim morality or principals or ego? Although that is a bit facile but the question may be asked.

 
 

Offline Caedwyr

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2005, 06:05:08 PM »
Looking over my results again, I realized another factor that came into play for a lot of my decisions.  I made noticeably different answers depending on what my level of relationship and distance I had with the person.  Those closer to me tended to get more positive responses.  This isn't because I'm a cold callous bastard, but because since I view humans as social creatures, the most important thing for a society to survive is to have strong communities.  Thus, when I had to make a choice between helping someone in my community and helping someone outside of the community, I took the road that said community is more important.  I don't argue that this is a morally superior position to take, but just that placing different amounts of importance on different ideals can result in different answers.
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Offline jester

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2005, 06:32:15 PM »
So inaction in everything is the only way to go according to what happened to Ghandi and 'The Butterfly Effect'. Judging and acting is only making things worse for someone somewhere. Is a natural tribalism built into the human race to prevent such thoughts from hindering any action that might not hold up on a larger scale?
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Offline Regullus

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2005, 06:53:07 PM »
So inaction in everything is the only way to go according to what happened to Ghandi and 'The Butterfly Effect'. Judging and acting is only making things worse for someone somewhere. Is a natural tribalism built into the human race to prevent such thoughts from hindering any action that might not hold up on a larger scale?

 For every action there is reaction but realistically we just gotta suck it up, and speaking for myself, I compartmentalize.

Offline jester

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2005, 07:12:07 PM »
compartmentalize? Any examples handy?
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Offline Da_venom

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2005, 06:42:25 AM »
Looking over my results again, I realized another factor that came into play for a lot of my decisions.  I made noticeably different answers depending on what my level of relationship and distance I had with the person.  Those closer to me tended to get more positive responses.  This isn't because I'm a cold callous bastard, but because since I view humans as social creatures, the most important thing for a society to survive is to have strong communities.  Thus, when I had to make a choice between helping someone in my community and helping someone outside of the community, I took the road that said community is more important.  I don't argue that this is a morally superior position to take, but just that placing different amounts of importance on different ideals can result in different answers.
what makes your communiy better than someone else his/her community?
Your community flourishes from the other community's

just like the rich country's profit from the poor country's

Offline Cybersquirt

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2005, 09:34:30 AM »
I know, for myself, it's not about better or worse, but what I'm more obligated to.

The question that asks about turning in a relative - does anyone remember reading that the local authorities are corrupt?
As I recall it was under the assumption that it was a relatively fair justice system.
That's sad.  I took that test twice and read it wrong both times.

Quote
As to the "Do no harm" scenario, part of the nature of humanity is that we do cause "harm," if only inadvertant harm during our life paths as do all living beings to some extent but then we may bring unintentional or unintended "good" too.

 Ghandi is often pointed to as an elevated being and a good man but the consequences of his beliefs have caused unintentionally the deaths of 500,000+ people and caused the biggest migration in human history (I believe, this is from memory), with all the attendant misery, and the death toll continues to rise (Kashmir).
Gandhi/Ghandi is not someone I have much knowledge of; Buddhism is a relatively new idea to me as well.  I'm pretty much a cultural idiot.

But man was that an easy a brush off of "do no harm".  Realisticly we need to use a bit more foresight so we don't have to suck so much.    :P

And Jester, I always thought of  :-yin as interconnectedness, not inaction.  What happens to one thing affects something else but not necessarily badly.

Is a natural tribalism built into the human race to prevent such thoughts from hindering any action that might not hold up on a larger scale?
What?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2005, 10:14:26 AM by Cybersquirt »
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Offline Regullus

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2005, 01:54:39 PM »

what makes your communiy better than someone else his/her community?
Your community flourishes from the other community's

just like the rich country's profit from the poor country's

 It is not that one community is better than another nor about profit it is simply about attachment and support. The closer the relationship the stronger the inclination to support.

 Actually I have to go but @Jester, I will try and give you a succinct and funny example of my moral compartmentalization later.

Offline Caedwyr

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2005, 02:37:46 PM »
I know, for myself, it's not about better or worse, but what I'm more obligated to.


Yep, this is it for me.  Like I said, I'm not saying that the position I take is morally superior, but that as a member of a community my obligation is to that particular community first, and the rest later.  Obviously there is limits to the obligation, but on many of the grey area questions I'll probably side with my community if the decision is hard to call.

As Jester wrote:
Quote
Is a natural tribalism built into the human race to prevent such thoughts from hindering any action that might not hold up on a larger scale?
That has probably a certain degree of truth in the matter.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2005, 10:51:33 PM »
Is there someone actually arguing that it's more moral to help people closer to you than far away?  I mean, we're talking pure good and evil, not practicality.  Sure, it's practical to help the person who's going to help you later on, but that's not what morality is.  I'm all for a global government and all that fancy sci-fi stuff.

Star Trek wouldn't let some poor schmuck in Antartica starve just because he was farthest from the world capitol of Whereverville.
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2005, 11:22:54 PM »
Yes, but the Federation is a communist entity. :)

(it strikes me however that they sort've got confused in DS9. I mean, you have the technology to turn power into food. And Bajor was worried about Resources. Not just the rare resources like Dilithium either. We're talking Food. Which can be easily replicated. I mean, the federation was willing to loan 12 Industrial Replicators to the Cardassians. Surely they could do something similar for Bajor.. But then again Sci Fi doesn't always make sense :) )
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Offline Eral

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2005, 11:31:14 PM »
Not more moral, just what you are more likely to do.
It's like that question, is it more moral to save 10 unknown children or your own child?
If the 10 are going to die if you don't save them, then morally, it's right to save the 10 kids.
However, if you base the decision on what is really important to you, you are going to save your own child. Otherwise we should warn your children to be very careful around open flames.
Morally, distance doesn't make a difference, a life's a life. But in real terms, distance affects our emotions, and so we can be less/more sympathetic.  
What you think is moral, and the factors that influence your decisions, can be different.

Of course, with the resources of the SS Enterprise behind us, the sky's the limit. Just as soon as we get the starboard phaser shield fixed properly. And a seatbelt for whatsername, the comm officer. (She was the receptionist, really.) So she stops falling out of her seat all the time.



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Offline Caedwyr

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2005, 03:29:01 AM »
My question about star trek, is why do they put explosive conduits behind all the panels.  I mean, in most power systems that you have people operate around, you don't design them so an overload will cause a spray of shrapnel to come flying out and hit anyone in the area.
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Offline jester

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Re: New Quizzes: Morality Play and World's Smallest Morality Quiz
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2005, 04:16:49 AM »
They just didn't want to let go of the old and well-known sparks and shaking routine, otherwise they conflicts would have needed acting instead of rocking their chairs.

I think people are actually programmed to act in the immediate vicinity and not so good at gauging distant dangers and threats. That is why world climate goes largely unattended while your cut up a tree is saved by a fireman. People donate to calm their minds locally, but humans are not designed to constantly think on largest possible scales, but i do believe that doing good in your immediate vicinity helps everybody around the globe. Do not waste ressources. Don't support companies that use child labour or unfair business practises and a lot more stuff we all know.

Piting nonames in your village against a bunch of foreigners in theory doesn't tell you anything IMO.
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