Author Topic: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!  (Read 10815 times)

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2005, 05:52:26 PM »
Probably the type of thing that effects saved games then, yeah?  Did you try starting a new game, Belanos?
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Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2005, 07:08:04 PM »
If thats hitting save games as well and not going away when uninstalled then I can see why someone would see it as something of a virus equivalent of a mod.  With that in mind, it may not be the best mod to distribute by a modding group that generally prides itself on superior quality.
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Offline Xiao

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2005, 07:11:07 PM »
If thats hitting save games as well and not going away when uninstalled then I can see why someone would see it as something of a virus equivalent of a mod.  With that in mind, it may not be the best mod to distribute by a modding group that generally prides itself on superior quality.
I was under the impression that it was always a bad idea to uninstall/install a mod and expect an existing game to work perfectly.  For instance, I think various NPC mods (Hubelpot among them, to the best of my recollection) will not have the new NPC available if you try to play an existing save game after installing.

Offline jcompton

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2005, 08:08:39 PM »
If thats hitting save games as well and not going away when uninstalled then I can see why someone would see it as something of a virus equivalent of a mod.

No, what Ghrey is referring to is the fact that if you save a game with a spawned creature in it created by a mod, then uninstall the mod, that creature will still be there.

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With that in mind, it may not be the best mod to distribute by a modding group that generally prides itself on superior quality.

At the advice of my law firm (Ding0, Ding0, and Ding0 LLP) I have amended the Iron Modder page to be less reassuring on the question of Iron Mod stability. That said, the number of "problem" cases is remarkably small and I still think a lot of heartache would be avoided if people read about the mods they intended to install.
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Offline Belanos

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2005, 09:37:52 PM »
Don't you think you've made your point?  In fact, counting your posts, you've made your point eight times.  I'm sure the entire forum has the message by now.

I'm only defending my position from people who keep posting and telling me I'm wrong for thinking the way I do.

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If you really do have 63 mods, chances are some of them are non-Weidu and I would suspect you have conflicts in your game whether you know it or not.

No they are all WeiDu, I haven't bothered with ones that weren't. And yes I do have conflicts from time to time, but that's not the issue here. The only conflict was with the default game, something I don't believe should happen with a mod that has had so little time available to it for testing.

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In the meantime, I respectfully suggest you strangle yourself with your "girdle".

I repeat, I'm only defending my position. We're all entitled to our opinions, but I'm not going to roll over and play dead when I feel my views are being attacked from all sides. Frankly, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a single person who has agreed with me on this issue.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2005, 09:47:54 PM by Belanos »

Offline Belanos

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2005, 09:42:19 PM »
I think it's the one that turns everybody in the game into slimes.

Yes, that's the one. Imoen right from the start gets turned into a slime and so does the Gollem in the West room. Not sure about anything else, I didn't explore to find out. When I tried to uninstall it, Imoen was her old self, but her portrait was still a lime green, her dialogue still had the reference to her being converted, and the Golem was still a slime. I'm not sure what else hadn't been restored since I turned off the game in disgust at that point and uninstalled everything. I'm now still in the process of putting everything back.

And all I wanted to do was play a game.  :'(
« Last Edit: April 07, 2005, 09:56:15 PM by Belanos »

Offline Belanos

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2005, 09:44:44 PM »
Probably the type of thing that effects saved games then, yeah?  Did you try starting a new game, Belanos?

I did start a new game. The only thing I did was export my character then started again. But the default game wasn't fully restored.

Offline Belanos

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2005, 09:51:00 PM »
At the advice of my law firm (Ding0, Ding0, and Ding0 LLP) I have amended the Iron Modder page to be less reassuring on the question of Iron Mod stability. That said, the number of "problem" cases is remarkably small and I still think a lot of heartache would be avoided if people read about the mods they intended to install.

I agree, this is the first time that I've encountered a problem with any of the Iron Mods. And I did read the readme file, but it was rather vague about the changes it was going to make to my game. I certainly wasn't expecting a drastic alteration or I wouldn't have installed it in the first place.

Offline jcompton

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2005, 09:58:37 PM »
Frankly, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a single person who has agreed with me on this issue.

Probably because many people have the rip-and-replace-from-backup method of restoring their BG2 game down to a relatively painless science at this point.

Also, in general I'd like to encourage you (and everyone else within earshot) to reply to multiple messages in one sitting in one post. If you scroll down a bit in the composition window you'll see the Topic Summary and the very handy "Insert Quote" feature which automates populating your reply with the text of several messages you might wish to respond to.
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2005, 05:31:56 AM »
I repeat, I'm only defending my position. We're all entitled to our opinions, but I'm not going to roll over and play dead when I feel my views are being attacked from all sides. Frankly, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a single person who has agreed with me on this issue.
Well, there was the bit that said I don't think Iron Mods should be installed as part of a regular game, and the bit where we changed the homepage so it didn't advise people to "download with confidence", but rather to download with caution. I don't believe anybody's debating that something which turns everyone in the game into slimes isn't terribly impressive coming from the homepage of a mod group priding itself on quality above all else. However, I also don't believe your proposed solution is going about it the right way (and the fact that you won't be installing any more Iron Mods until it's implemented suits me fine actually, since I'm trying to discourage people from it :)).

Assuming we do institute a no changes rule, what would happen?
We stifle creativity. There are many situations under which a change to existing content would not he hugely detrimental.
We also introduce controversy. To spawn any new creature into the game, we have to modify some part of the original material, be it scripting, or an area. And what if my quest wants to involve an existing actor? Am I allowed to change his dialogue? Why is Modder B's entry acceptable but not mine?

I don't see what the problem with saying "be careful" is. It should be evident that the IM mods don't have the same level of QA that we normally provide; I believe the page now implies something to this effect.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 05:36:03 AM by SimDing0™ »

Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2005, 02:09:07 PM »
Quote
While some mods are submitted for judging with bugs or mistakes, all mods in the download packs have been corrected to the best of our knowledge. That said, these mods should be considered novelties and there may still be some rough edges. As with any mod, read the documentation and evaluate player commentary before you commit. [b/]


Sounds like a fair warning to me.

One thing that would be nice, is a way to view the readmes prior to downloading.  Some people may not want to waste their bandwidth downloading a mod they may or may not want to install.
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Offline Bookwyrme

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2005, 02:36:45 PM »
Quote
While some mods are submitted for judging with bugs or mistakes, all mods in the download packs have been corrected to the best of our knowledge. That said, these mods should be considered novelties and there may still be some rough edges. As with any mod, read the documentation and evaluate player commentary before you commit. [b/]


Sounds like a fair warning to me.

One thing that would be nice, is a way to view the readmes prior to downloading.  Some people may not want to waste their bandwidth downloading a mod they may or may not want to install.

That would be nice--some of us are still on that old-fashioned thing known as "dial-up."  So, though I'll cheerfully wait through the time it takes to download something like Kelsey, casually downloading an unkown mod in order to read the readmeso that I can discover whether or not I want the mod isn't really an option.
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Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2005, 03:06:54 PM »
Yeah.  There's definately some big advantages to mod info like this over the current layout on Pocketplane group's webpage.  Its not that the PPG stuff is bad, but that there is some room for improvement and the occasional idea that could do with being stolen.
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Offline Belanos

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2005, 05:43:13 PM »
Also, in general I'd like to encourage you (and everyone else within earshot) to reply to multiple messages in one sitting in one post. If you scroll down a bit in the composition window you'll see the Topic Summary and the very handy "Insert Quote" feature which automates populating your reply with the text of several messages you might wish to respond to.

Point taken, I wasn't aware of this feature until now. Not to mention that I tend to reply to posts as I come across them. I'll try to change my habits.

Well, there was the bit that said I don't think Iron Mods should be installed as part of a regular game, and the bit where we changed the homepage so it didn't advise people to "download with confidence", but rather to download with caution. I don't believe anybody's debating that something which turns everyone in the game into slimes isn't terribly impressive coming from the homepage of a mod group priding itself on quality above all else. However, I also don't believe your proposed solution is going about it the right way (and the fact that you won't be installing any more Iron Mods until it's implemented suits me fine actually, since I'm trying to discourage people from it :)).

OK, I stand corrected.

Assuming we do institute a no changes rule, what would happen?
We stifle creativity. There are many situations under which a change to existing content would not he hugely detrimental.
We also introduce controversy. To spawn any new creature into the game, we have to modify some part of the original material, be it scripting, or an area. And what if my quest wants to involve an existing actor? Am I allowed to change his dialogue? Why is Modder B's entry acceptable but not mine?

I don't see how it would stifle creativity. Most of the mods, in fact all but the one in question, have done just what I've proposed and created new content for the game. I think it requires more imagination and creativity to come up with something brand new rather than simply appending existing content. As for making alterations in order to fit a character into the game, I think that's rather inevitable. There has to be some way for a party to interact and that will require some sort of change. But that can easily be kept to a minimum, rather than having to make a major alteration in the default game.

I don't see what the problem with saying "be careful" is. It should be evident that the IM mods don't have the same level of QA that we normally provide; I believe the page now implies something to this effect.

Unfortunately those warnings weren't there when I DLd the mod, and I was lulled into a false sense of security. I won't make that mistake again I assure you.

Offline Ashara

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2005, 09:42:12 AM »
Quote
I think it requires more imagination and creativity to come up with something brand new rather than simply appending existing content.


It has nothing to dfo with Iron Mods safety discussion, but in my opinion it is a much more difficult and artistic task to carefully and seamlessly alter the game, than slap on a few bran-new characters with unrelated or marginally storylines and quests.
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Offline Mongoose87

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2005, 08:35:51 PM »
Also, we wouldn't want to have any Iron Modders done in by the fact that their good idea would require what was judged an alteration to the game.  Not to mention if you get anal-retentive, every mod is an alteration to the existing elements of the game.

Offline Caswallon

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2005, 06:24:28 AM »
One thing that would be nice, is a way to view the readmes prior to downloading.

That would be nice, independently from the Iron Modder packs.
Esp. as self-installing mods usually display the readme *after* installation, which is a bit unfortunate when deciding which options to install...
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Offline SimDing0™

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2005, 07:18:35 AM »
While I agree that being able to read the readmes would be a useful feature for the site, I don't believe they'd resolve this particular problem because unlike most mods, the Iron Modder readmes aren't always terribly clear about what the mod does.

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2005, 07:31:02 AM »
While I agree that being able to read the readmes would be a useful feature for the site, I don't believe they'd resolve this particular problem because unlike most mods, the Iron Modder readmes aren't always terribly clear about what the mod does.

... and that's Quitch's cue to appear.
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Offline jester

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2005, 07:44:23 AM »
OMG a dejavu thread!

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Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2005, 11:33:24 AM »
Actually, I was thinking being able to read the readmes is something that would be good for any mod, not just the IM packs.  Of course a good readme is a must for this to be useful, but I've heard that there are true masters in the craft of readme construction to be found around here.  To be denied access to their works is truly a crime.
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Offline jester

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Re: Bloody Hell, no more Iron Mods for me!
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2005, 11:46:48 AM »
I second that idea. Online readmes are state-of-the-art.
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