Author Topic: Why 96 hit points?  (Read 21129 times)

Offline Ashara

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2005, 04:19:35 PM »
I do not like when NPCs die hence I like higher rather than lower hps...
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Offline Lu

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2005, 04:27:19 PM »
Quote
Any reduction in hit points will also force us to make adjustments to these attacks

  Let's consider the following conversation that takes place in the original SOA
 Delon: "Umm... excuse me, sir.  Y-y-you... you look like a warrior... (blah blah)"
 Minsc: "Minsc and Boo are the greatest of warriors... (blah blah)"
  ........
  ........
 Minsc: "Nothing removes fear better than a good sword and a swift kick in the evil!
  We shall go to your village and do what heroes do, right <CHARNAME>?"
 Minsc?! -option: "I don't know if we have time, Minsc, but we'll see"
    What say you? (for those who don't understand: should be Charname's option where it is Minsc's)
 Just a tiny flaw, right? Right, won't lose a single buyer. But flaws of this type are rather many in the game
 (Jaheira - Ployer conversation is next that I immediately remember). Well, be they a zillion,
 it will hardly lose customers. I even almost don't blame Bioware, all the rest hardly matters when
 money's involved
  But if something like that happens in my mod, I will feel guilty, for IMO it's a question of self-respect,
 and respect for those who are meant to play the mod
  Well, if you want to make a real good mod (and I have no doubt that you do), you must be ready
 to spend more time and energy on it that you might have expected

Offline Lu

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2005, 04:31:46 PM »
Quote
And people say I'm harsh for murdering Chloe in Brynnlaw

  I didn't kill Yasraena, I just uninstalled the mod (or do I misunderstand you)

Offline Ashara

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2005, 04:54:28 PM »
But if something like that happens in my mod, I will feel guilty, for IMO it's a question of self-respect, and respect for those who are meant to play the mod
  Well, if you want to make a real good mod (and I have no doubt that you do), you must be ready  to spend more time and energy on it that you might have expected


No matter how much time and energy you spend on a mod, you will not be able to please everyone. Someone would hate your writing, would misunderstand your dialogues, would misinterpret your intentions, would hate your gramar, would protest stats, would want a quest, would wonder why there are not a thousand more interjections, make character do things differently, protest that it is not in character, etc, etc, etc. Sky is the limit.

The morale is: if you'd like a mod that is tailored to your own taste - make it yourself, it is the only way to get everything you want. If you cannot - well, do make an allowance for human differences and preferences.
Hang in there. I'll try to make you glad you did.
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There is nothing better than imagining other worlds [...] to forget the painful one we live in. At least so I thought then. I hadn't yet realized that, imagining other worlds, you end up changing this one.
-Umberto Eco, Baudolino

Three mods you shall make - one too bad and one to dread and one to love.

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2005, 05:06:32 PM »
Quote
And people say I'm harsh for murdering Chloe in Brynnlaw

 I didn't kill Yasraena, I just uninstalled the mod (or do I misunderstand you)

I was just joking that more people than me don't like overpowered Mary Sues.  Not that I think Cailean is.  I think he's just some random chum who was created on normal difficulty, and nobody noticed until now.

This brings up the question (why yes, I am trying to divert people's attention way from the various hissy fits going on), will Cailean have an Axe-to-Face combat script?  Kelsey stood idly by while I axed his face for hitting on Imoen, and Chloe too did little to nothing while Viconia and I gutted her one night in the Vulgar Monkey inn for suggesting I kick Mazzy from the group.
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Offline Kismet

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2005, 05:14:48 PM »
This brings up the question (why yes, I am trying to divert people's attention way from the various hissy fits going on), will Cailean have an Axe-to-Face combat script?  Kelsey stood idly by while I axed his face for hitting on Imoen, and Chloe too did little to nothing while Viconia and I gutted her one night in the Vulgar Monkey inn for suggesting I kick Mazzy from the group.

Hrm, that depends... What ticks you off, Ghrey?  Cailean doesn't hit on Imoen, nor does he suggest any member leave the party (he isn't keen on Viconia being in the party, but he doesn't make you decide between the two of you.)  He will fight back if you try to turn him in for his bounty or betray him to Masalina though.
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2005, 05:19:08 PM »
Not having Axe-To-Face technology would tick me off, I imagine. :)  Or... greasy hair.  Or pointy ears.  Or being short.  I'm sure you get the idea.  <GHREYNAME> is not often mistaken as a force of benevolence in the realms.
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Offline Bons

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2005, 05:57:29 PM »
Well, if you want to make a real good mod (and I have no doubt that you do), you must be ready to spend more time and energy on it that you might have expected.

I know I appreciate your dutiful instruction in this matter. All of us who have been working on particular mod projects for over a year are obviously rushing through the process. ::)

Since the HP issue is one Kismet and St. Jo say they hadn't really thought of until this thread, and they have responded in the best possible way by promising to take a valid point under consideration, they've given an exemplary demonstration of their fair-minded spirits and their good intentions. I think we have now reached a state of belaboring the hit points. (With an axe to the face, even.)
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Offline Lu

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2005, 06:00:59 PM »
Quote
  No matter how much time and energy you spend on a mod, you will not be able to please everyone

  I was rather speaking of trying to make a mod as flawless as possible, and it definitely depends on the time and energy spent

Offline nethrin

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2005, 05:51:02 AM »
  The last mod that I played was Yasraena, if 'played' is appropriate word here. I installed
 the mod, made it thru CI, met the Drow lass and had her joined. Of course, I immediately
 looked at her character page. Oh my, her ridiculously high strength, HP at maximum
 possible, an additional attack per round for no reason, and extremely high CHA - all this made
 me sick. If this is not an overpowed character, than what is? So I just uninstalled the mod never
 to play it again
why didn't you post this in yasraena's forum at CoM?  you *really* hate her, eh?  well, although I am loathe to employ a cliche, "get over yourself."
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Ssin'urn, sel'tur, tet ssivah. Il zhah Yasraena.
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Offline Lu

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2005, 09:54:32 AM »
Quote
  why didn't you post this in yasraena's forum at CoM?  you *really* hate her, eh?  well, although I am loathe to employ a cliche, "get over yourself."

   To begin with, I do not often visit forums other than PPG, and have never posted elsewhere
   But frankly, I read the discussion about Yasraena's STR at CoM and got a strong impression that
 starting a new one would be useless, to say the least
   Furthermore, why would I hate something I'm barely familiar with? Anyway, trying to decide what
 I love and what I hate doesn't speak well of your manners. But it's your problem, not mine
   However, I seek no confrontation here.  So, why don't you explain Yasraena's additional attack per round instead?

Offline Xiao

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2005, 10:04:13 AM »
You know, after seeing this thread topic come up so much, I now have that old song "96 Tears" running through my head.  Over and over.  Except that, it's such an old song, only part of the chorus and part of a verse can be recalled.  Due to this horror, I felt compelled to share it with all of you.  Anyway, thanks a freaking lot. :P

One more thing: "do not taunt Happy Fun Ball!"  Yikes.

Offline icelus

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2005, 10:48:55 AM »
It's happy!  It's fun!  It's Happy Fun Ball!!!

(I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers that.  :))
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Offline Operadragon

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2005, 01:34:29 PM »
Well said, Bons.

As for my unique perspective, in which I'm on the team...yet not a developer, I know for a fact that Kis & St. Jo have working themselves very hard on making this MOD *just* right.

Additionally, the pelting they are taking over this HP issue is really not cool. The fact that they *aren't* saying "%&#$ off, we'll do it the way we like," says volumes about them as developers.  I agree that good balance is a key factor in scripting the individual battles that are part of the MOD's progress, but if the battles have to be harder *just* in order to have fun, then that's a shortsighted approach to game balance.  If this character has higher HP, yet still has a low AC, or is more susceptible to being critically hit, then there is little cause to moan over statistics of one NPC that was part of the original game, and the other being a MODded NPC, bottom line is that it's apples and oranges. 

This real issue here is that Kis & St. Jo think that this topic is important enough to carefully consider tweaking the entire MOD, just because a few of the natives are restless.  I know as a quasi-insider, that they will give this subject its due, and *might* change things up.  Then again, they *might* not.  That's their decision, and theirs alone.  If there are some of those people out there who wouldn't play the MOD because of this small issue, then they're making a big mistake, because the story's compelling, the writing is amazing, the voice acting is quality (and I don't mean my job personally), and there is a *lot* of work that has gone into the development of this character. I can honestly say that I've never voiced a character that was so easy to get into, simply because of the backstory of the character is so well developed, and the voice direction is the easiest I've ever had to follow...ever. 

So bottom line: This is going to be a lot of fun to play, listen, watch, and enjoy.  So the few wet blankets out there, get over yourselves, suspend disbelief, and actually *roleplay*.  I know it's a new concept for some, but you have lots more fun when you quit worrying about stats and immerse yourself in the game and the story.

Operadragon

P.S. Folks, if you're going to continue tossing insulting remarks at each other, find another forum...on another site...or another planet, even. Nicely put, play nice, children...or get sent to Mr. Mackey's office. :P    -BDV
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Offline Slayne

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2005, 09:03:41 PM »
Slinky > Fun ball


Wonder how well a Slinky would work on an esculator...
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Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2005, 01:44:11 AM »
A slinky on an escalator...INFINITE FUN!

Must...resist...urge...to...investigate...
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Offline jester

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2005, 04:23:57 AM »
@Operadragon: Yessir, nice prep speech! Though not entirely a wet blanket of your definition I don't think anyone doubted for a minute that Cailean will be a blast, but I still think that forums are a very good feedback option. If some people care about Valen's eye colour or Cailean's HPs I fail to see how that makes them lesser roleplayers than your definition suggests. Being insulting yourself does not take the heat out of any debate.

If somebody feels compelled to adress an issue, s/he should raise it and those who also care about it can argue, praise or taunt within the forum's limits. Others who are not interested in the topic simply shun it and it dies. Otherwise I totally agree with what Ashara said above: Do as you please.... and pronto! :D

Unrelated sidenote: Black Isle get another slap with a stinky tuna for using the word 'fascist' in Icewind Dale. :(
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Offline Kismet

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2005, 07:45:01 AM »
Enough sniping, folks.  Everyone is welcome to comment, question, criticize or praise anything about Cailean that springs to mind.  We may or may not agree with what you say, but we'll certainly listen. 

However, slamming people who are on the opposite side of the issue from you or who express themselves in ways that are not to your taste  is not the way to go about it.  In a text only medium it can be difficult to get across exactly *how* you mean something.  If someone posts something that you think is rude, don't immediately hit the reply button; instead step back, take a deep breath or two and consider what they're really saying.  If you still think they're being rude and you have nothing else on topic to say, then bring it to PM.

To semi-quote my dad "Don't make me pull this forum over!" :)
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Offline Lord Kain

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2005, 12:12:15 AM »
This is my Impression of the fourm in cow.

Cow 1# "Moo"

Cow 2# "Moo"

Cow 1# "Moo!"

Cow 2# "MOO!"

Cow 1# "MOO!!!"

Cow 2# "MOO!!!!!!!!!!"

And the farmer sharpens her butcher knife
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Offline Drew

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2005, 02:48:14 PM »
ya know, if they don't change the hp there's always shadowkeeper, or that wonderful component in G3 tweaks that gives full HP to every creature in the game! ;D  I don't think anybody would just "not play the mod" because they don't like his hit points.  If you're modding your game already you probably have an editor anyway, just in case the feces hits the proverbial oscillating unit and you need to fix it. If whatever the folks here choose to do regarding his hit points bugs you changing it yourself will really be no big deal. 8)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2005, 02:52:47 PM by Drew »
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Offline CORVIS TERRIBLE MOUNTAIN GOD

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2005, 11:40:31 PM »
You don't do something half-assed just because someone else can fix it later.

Offline Operadragon

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2005, 12:09:20 AM »
You know, there is no reason for calling a conscious decision "half-assed."

As it is, I believe that Kismet and St. Josephine are doing way more than they should by even posting it for discussion. Just labelling it with a flippant comment is not good commentary, nor does it add to the discussion to any constructive degree.

To say what you did is an indictment of these two hard-working ladies, as if the number of HP that Cailean ends up with is assigned as an afterthought.

I believe the appropriate response is that the comment in question is indeed, "half-assed."

Opera
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2005, 05:48:09 AM »
Good sir, I do belive Corvis has pwned you.  I will now proced to slepo
.
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Offline Kuemper

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2005, 07:11:55 AM »
It looks like there's two camps here - those who want Cailean to have his full hp and those who want him to not.

I want the hp! Is there a way you can make it an option in installing or something?

{Do you want to install component CAILEAN96.xxx?}
{Y}es {N}o {I}nstall {U}install

{Do you want to install component CAILEAN72.xxx?}
{Y}es {N}o {I}nstall {U}install

I think max/high hp are a sign of a good constitution. There's that darn rp aspect creeping in again.  :D

But then, if he's as good as the other mods you've written/coded, his hp won't matter to me. <suck up>  :-*
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Offline Kismet

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Re: Why 96 hit points?
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2005, 07:26:46 AM »
Didn't we finish this arguement a while back?  In any case, we inadvertantly gave him maxed out hp; Lu caught this and called us on it; we lowered his hp to something a bit more reasonable.  If, when we release the mod, you still don't like the quantity of his hp, then feel free to yell at us some more.
Cailean - An archer NPC for the insatiably nosy!  Guaranteed more fun than shampooing cats!

 

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