Author Topic: Fallen Paladins  (Read 8149 times)

Offline SixOfSpades

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Fallen Paladins
« on: March 07, 2005, 06:28:32 PM »
Upon taking the Evil path and delivering the Cup to Reynald, Anarg delivers his spiel about this being the time to strike and Reynald wanders off in disgust....and it seems to end there. Anarg has nothing to say to us. In desperation, we attacked and killed him--at which point Reynald reappeared and acted as if everything was hunky-dory, as if we'd been roleplaying Good, asking us for guidance on his future path. Is this what was intended?

The City Guard angle is well done, allowing for plenty of roleplaying flexibility. The only oddness is how someone can live and work in the law enforcement community in a town for as long as Reynald seems to have, and still have no idea of who to talk to about joining a workforce that's hurting for new members.

Reynald has a typo in one of his lines, "unpleasantness."

If a continuation of the Evil path is needed, I suggest that Anarg and the Fallens install themselves in the High Hall, passing themselves off as being restored to their honorable status after being wrongfully shamed by Wesallen, Ryan Trawl, and the others, who have been sent off on missionary duty, or to the Sythsillian front, as punishment for their injustice.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2005, 11:07:38 AM »
Upon taking the Evil path and delivering the Cup to Reynald, Anarg delivers his spiel about this being the time to strike and Reynald wanders off in disgust....and it seems to end there. Anarg has nothing to say to us. In desperation, we attacked and killed him--at which point Reynald reappeared and acted as if everything was hunky-dory, as if we'd been roleplaying Good, asking us for guidance on his future path. Is this what was intended?
Ah, I seem to have cut off the dialogue at the wrong point. There's a ton of unimplemented stuff to do with the fallen paladin stronghold which I cut short for now to try and get a less embarassing Quest Pack out the door sooner. v3 or so will finish it off-- until then, I'll restore Anarg's behaviour to how it was in vanilla BG2.

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The City Guard angle is well done, allowing for plenty of roleplaying flexibility. The only oddness is how someone can live and work in the law enforcement community in a town for as long as Reynald seems to have, and still have no idea of who to talk to about joining a workforce that's hurting for new members.
Well, I'm not sure to what extent the paladins and city guard would interact, but I don't think it's that unrealistic that a junior knight wouldn't know all the ins and outs of Athkatlan law enforcement.

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Reynald has a typo in one of his lines, "unpleasantness."
Fixed.

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If a continuation of the Evil path is needed, I suggest that Anarg and the Fallens install themselves in the High Hall, passing themselves off as being restored to their honorable status after being wrongfully shamed by Wesallen, Ryan Trawl, and the others, who have been sent off on missionary duty, or to the Sythsillian front, as punishment for their injustice.
I swear you read my mind sometimes. The evil extension I started developing was indeed to have Anarg worm his way back into the High Hall. Only difference being, I'd planned to have Ryan Trawl and Wesallen dead at that point, and Anarg playing on the lack of leadership, blaming the Shadow Thieves for the assassination.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2005, 01:54:00 PM »
Well, I'm not sure to what extent the paladins and city guard would interact, but I don't think it's that unrealistic that a junior knight wouldn't know all the ins and outs of Athkatlan law enforcement.
Hmmm....hardly 'junior' if he's second in command of a (admittedly renegade) group of men that thrive on discipline. As for contacting the city guard, all he has to do is slip a few coins to Rampah or coins to Faraji, or even just pop round for a friendly chat with what's-his-name at the Temple of Helm. But that's nitpicking.


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I swear you read my mind sometimes. The evil extension I started developing was indeed to have Anarg worm his way back into the High Hall. Only difference being, I'd planned to have Ryan Trawl and Wesallen dead at that point, and Anarg playing on the lack of leadership, blaming the Shadow Thieves for the assassination.
Oh, yes, Ryan Trawl would almost certainly be dead, since I believe the only way to take the Evil path is to tell him to "Draw steel!" (Admittedly, I forgot to check if the Cup could be pickpocketed from him). Wesallen might still be alive, however (as might Squire Melvin), as you have to essentially explore to find him. My thing about their being missionaries or on army duty was intended to be Anarg's cover story about why they're no longer in Athkatla.

Offline SimDing0

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2005, 02:07:05 PM »
Hmmm....hardly 'junior' if he's second in command of a (admittedly renegade) group of men that thrive on discipline. As for contacting the city guard, all he has to do is slip a few coins to Rampah or coins to Faraji, or even just pop round for a friendly chat with what's-his-name at the Temple of Helm. But that's nitpicking.
I'd always assumed he was pretty junior in the Order, and I don't see Anarg exactly encouraging him to socialize with the Athkatlan authorities. I do see your point that he could easily find out, but it kinda spoils the plot of he decides what to do without your help, so I think we can assume he just didn't get round to it. :)


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Oh, yes, Ryan Trawl would almost certainly be dead, since I believe the only way to take the Evil path is to tell him to "Draw steel!" (Admittedly, I forgot to check if the Cup could be pickpocketed from him).
I was planning to have Ryan Trawl on business in the goverment district when you have to get the cup (which would be locked in the Order compound). The player could either ask for the key, murder him and take it, pickpocket the key, or pick the lock in the compound. Admittedly I can't remember at this stage what I was going to do if Ryan Trawl was still alive-- I'd rather it didn't thwart working for Anarg, because stealing the cup is a "legitimate" way of obtaining it from his perspective.

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Wesallen might still be alive, however (as might Squire Melvin), as you have to essentially explore to find him. My thing about their being missionaries or on army duty was intended to be Anarg's cover story about why they're no longer in Athkatla.
The problem I have with them being sent away is that I don't envisage them allowing Anarg back into the order in the first place, and without him there, there's no influence to have them sent away, if that makes sense.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 12:34:06 AM »
I was planning to have Ryan Trawl on business in the goverment district when you have to get the cup (which would be locked in the Order compound). The player could either ask for the key, murder him and take it, pickpocket the key, or pick the lock in the compound.
I'd argue against the lock being pickable, otherwise it kinda makes the Radiant Heart look like a bunch of saps who can't even keep their sanctum from being ransacked by a punk kid like Nalia.



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The problem I have with them being sent away is that I don't envisage them allowing Anarg back into the order in the first place, and without him there, there's no influence to have them sent away, if that makes sense.
Uh, what? Confuzzled.

My take on the situation: Ryan Trawl, and most likely all the other Paladins, even those standing guard outside, are dead. They are not actually on missionary duty. Anarg has not actually been retored to his pre-Fallen Status. But Anarg and the Fallens can pretend that this is the case, in order to gain the respect of the populace.


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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 09:49:22 AM »
I'd argue against the lock being pickable, otherwise it kinda makes the Radiant Heart look like a bunch of saps who can't even keep their sanctum from being ransacked by a punk kid like Nalia.
Hmm. It kinda depends whether we define a 95% difficulty lock as something that only a master thief can get past, or something that every random pickpocket has no trouble with. Ingame, I guess it's closer to the latter, in which case, yeh, they'd probably have a magically-warded lock.

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My take on the situation: Ryan Trawl, and most likely all the other Paladins, even those standing guard outside, are dead. They are not actually on missionary duty. Anarg has not actually been retored to his pre-Fallen Status. But Anarg and the Fallens can pretend that this is the case, in order to gain the respect of the populace.
Okay, sorry, gotcha. Ignore what I was saying earlier then. Hmm. The idea I was thinking through was that most of the paladins would still be around, but with the help of a reasonably high-ranking mole, Anarg would return to the Order playing the role of somebody wronged but trying to help out in a time of crisis (the crisis being the murders of Ryan Trawl and Wessalen, which would be blamed on the Shadow Thieves, who we learn are causing Anarg problems in vanilla BG2). The missionary duty could still work here as a means of "disposing" of anybody averse to Anarg's return. It might be hard to pull off believably, but I do find it an interesting way to go about it (the fallen paladins deceiving the Order itself as well as the public).

Offline Caedwyr

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2005, 08:25:59 PM »
Re: fallen paladins deceiving the order.

Wouldn't they have some sort of issue of being ratted out by their god/servent of their god in the know?
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2005, 04:56:02 PM »
The guys causing Anarg problems in vanilla BG2 aren't neccessarily Shadow Thieves, as neither they, Anarg or Reynald make any mention of that particular organization.

BTW don't forget than Anarg apparently still has "ears in the Order" ;).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 04:57:39 PM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2005, 03:41:02 AM »
Wouldn't they have some sort of issue of being ratted out by their god/servent of their god in the know?
Possibly at some point they're going to have to deal with a smartass who's cast Know Alignment. I don't approve of direct divine intervention. Ever. :)

The guys causing Anarg problems in vanilla BG2 aren't neccessarily Shadow Thieves, as neither they, Anarg or Reynald make any mention of that particular organization.
Ryan Trawl does though. "Excellent. Thanks to the Shadow Thieves, Anarg has kept their activities localized in the Bridge District. I suggest you search there. May Torm be with you."

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2005, 05:07:24 PM »
Ah right, I thought you were talking about the group who attack the FPs right after you first meet them.
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Fallen Paladins
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2005, 02:02:11 AM »
Ah, no. I assume they're just bog-standard smugglers. :)

 

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