Author Topic: Suggestion: Cernd/Viconia conflict? (Read 8791 times)

Andyr · « **on:** February 02, 2005, 10:36:38 AM »

Now, I don't know if Cernd's deity is mentioned explicity in the game. Although it may well be Silvanus, as he is a Neutral lycanthrope I think he would pay more than lip servie to Selune too (the moon and neutral lycanthropes are part of her portfolio, for those wondering)...

Shar's doctrines state that her followers must oppose those of Selune at every turn and try to kill them. So how about some Cernd-Viconia conflict, along the lines of J&K-X&M from BG1?

jester · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2005, 11:58:55 AM »

Yes, that would actually spice up the old tree-hugger quite a bit.

Murdane · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2005, 07:50:51 PM »

Maybe he worships all of the good and neutral nature gods. I imagine he would perhaps worship Selune, or at least pay lip service, but it's not required.

I don't know, I just don't see him as zealous enough about Selune to go head to head with Viconia about it, though.

Andyr · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2005, 10:30:12 AM »

Regardless of Cernd's personality, Viconia's faith would make her eliminate a Selunite.

Murdane · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2005, 07:18:25 PM »

Quote from: Andyr on February 03, 2005, 10:30:12 AM

Regardless of Cernd's personality, Viconia's faith would make her eliminate a Selunite.

But there's the rub--is he a Selunite?

NiGHTMARE · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2005, 04:12:41 AM »

Even if Cernd doesn't worship Selune, the fact that he's a neutral lycanthrope would mean Viconia would probably believe that he does.

jester · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2005, 08:09:48 AM »

For me the major letdown or mischaracterization regarding Cernd is that while his items hint at him being a seasoned druid in tune with nature (and his high wisdom suggests his rank as a druid is nothing to be laughed at), he seems to be a responsibility-dodging city slicker.

His main quest apart from the druid one is probably meant to introduce controvercy about his beliefs, but (not unlike Anakin 'the brat' Skywalker) you would need a rich character to play that against which he lacks completely. Cernd could definitely need a character makeover.

My bold guess always has been that whereas Jaheira despite her nagging could do the Shuffle, the Hanky-Panky and the Harper's Call and thus replace a normal cleric, Cernd suffered from the slow progression and the limited usefullness of shapeshifters. His conflict over Selune vs Shar could be one way to stress that he is not only the PC's best friend, but also a well rounded character. Apart from that I do not get the impression that Shar features very strongly in Vic's lines either.

Reverendratbastard · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2005, 04:10:39 PM »

Quote from: jester on February 07, 2005, 08:09:48 AM

Apart from that I do not get the impression that Shar features very strongly in Vic's lines either.

agreed - a GLARING oversight by bioware. (fingers crossed for discovering redress when i have achieved up-to-speed tutu)

Murdane · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2005, 09:05:15 PM »

I agree with that (about Viconia's faith in Shar), which is another reason why I'm not too keen about this conflict. It'd be "realistic" as far as what Shar demands of her followers, but if Viconia is such a faithful follower of Shar, where are the people she is killing out of sacrifice to the goddess? Why isn't she subtly trying to turn the group over to the faith of Shar (one of the few legitimate reasons why a cleric of Shar may work with "goodly" people, btw)?

So suddenly making Viconia jump at Cernd because he *might* possibly pay lip service to Selune actually seems out of character, because otherwise her service to Shar seems rather lax, or at least glossed over in the rest of the game.

jcompton · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2005, 01:21:16 AM »

I agree here that there's not terribly strong evidence for Cernd being affiliated with Selune.

However, I am a subscriber to the "Viconia disdains 'freaks'" school of thought, so I think there's some potential for a related conversation here.

Shrikant · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2005, 01:26:15 PM »

But Viccy no longer worships Shar. She walked away from Shar long before SoA.
So why would she be interested in killing a follower of Selune? Specially if thats a way to snub Shar.
err....

SimDing0™ · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2005, 01:29:20 PM »

If she walked away from Shar, why is "For Shar!" still one of her battle cries?

Reverendratbastard · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2005, 06:09:37 PM »

indeed. who does she worship if not shar?
and please don't say 'talos', despite high-level sloppy-ass design {muttergrumble} evidence to the contrary...

Bookwyrme · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2005, 07:31:57 PM »

Quote from: Shrikant on February 11, 2005, 01:26:15 PM

But Viccy no longer worships Shar. She walked away from Shar long before SoA.
So why would she be interested in killing a follower of Selune? Specially if thats a way to snub Shar.
err....

Aren't you thinking of Lloth?

Reverendratbastard · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2005, 03:17:24 AM »

Quote from: Bookwyrme on February 11, 2005, 07:31:57 PM

Lloth?

@Powers-That-Be:
is there a policy against Spelling Freakouts?

Ghreyfain · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2005, 10:23:11 AM »

While I think Lolth is cooler, too, I'm pretty sure whatshisface from the Drizzt novels spells it like llama, so there's precedent for the suckage.

Bookwyrme · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2005, 03:35:46 PM »

Quote from: Ghreyfain on February 12, 2005, 10:23:11 AM

While I think Lolth is cooler, too, I'm pretty sure whatshisface from the Drizzt novels spells it like llama, so there's precedent for the suckage.

That is where I learned that spelling, yes. Elaine Cunningham also spells it that way.

Reverendratbastard · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2005, 02:21:57 PM »

true, there's probably been precedent since before even 1e fiend folio came out, but they're still WRONG.

and salvatore should be shot for that, because he's actually a decent writer. in the realm of d&d-world novelists, at least.
haven't read song-sword-shadow-yada or anything else by e.c. yet, but if nothing else she should be locked up and/or forced to execute a recall.

i suppose i could try to rationalize them into being confused/ignorant outsiders. but just knowing that they've misled so many innocent potential consumers of authentic game material... {flees to meditation chamber to put rage in check}

NiGHTMARE · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2005, 07:20:55 AM »

I remember reading that TSR's excuse is that drow from in the north of the realms (i.e. Menzoberranzan) use "Lloth", while elsewhere it's usually "Lolth".

Some of the gods are known by different names in certain places (e.g. Talos is known as Bhaelros in Calimshan, and as Kozah in the Anauroch desert), so I guess it's at least semi-plausible

.

BTW how exactly can you accuse Salvatore and Cunningham of mixing up gaming material in this regards, when these two people contributed more to the development of FR drow culture, society and lore than any other? Don't think their contributions are confined the novels either, they did much for the various drow-related sourcebooks.

Without Salvatore in particular, the drow would doubtlessly have been developed in an extremely different manner.

Ghreyfain · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2005, 07:20:30 PM »

Quote from: NiGHTMARE on February 14, 2005, 07:20:55 AM

BTW how exactly can you accuse Salvatore and Cunningham of mixing up gaming material in this regards, when these two people contributed more to the development of FR drow culture, society and lore than any other? Don't think their contributions are confined the novels either, they did much for the various drow-related sourcebooks.

Without Salvatore in particular, the drow would doubtlessly have been developed in an extremely different manner.

Ohhhhh... so that's why the drow suck so much.

Reverendratbastard · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2005, 10:33:24 AM »

Quote from: NiGHTMARE on February 14, 2005, 07:20:55 AM

Don't think their contributions are confined the novels either, they did much for the various drow-related sourcebooks.

all that will Ever Matter is that the One True Spelling must Ascend and Eradicate its Opposition.

jcompton · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2005, 11:25:24 PM »

It's not exactly a "conflict" but I have done something with this theme for Banter V6, just released.

Bookwyrme · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2005, 01:06:49 AM »

Quote from: jcompton on February 21, 2005, 11:25:24 PM

It's not exactly a "conflict" but I have done something with this theme for Banter V6, just released.

You've had Viconia correct Cernd's spelling?

Banter Pack 6 is out? Great!

RavenBlack · « **Reply #23 on:** April 12, 2005, 09:02:22 PM »

Quote

indeed. who does she worship if not shar?
and please don't say 'talos', despite high-level sloppy-ass design {muttergrumble} evidence to the contrary...

Not Talos (Vic never struck me as a storm fanatic). DEFINITELY not Lolth/Lloth (strong evidence in the LTs).

Vhaeraun? Cyric?

Silk · « **Reply #24 on:** April 12, 2005, 11:32:00 PM »

I'm sure Viccy worships Shar. In fact, when you save her from the stake in the Government District, I'm sure part of her wording is "Shar, my deliverance is in your hands...."

I don't commonly use Viccy in my parties so I assume there's already a banter between her and Cernd regarding his weakness as a male specimen. Unfortunately, I don't use Cernd much either but I suspect any god he worshipped would bring him into direct conflict with Viccy's ideas.

(My two cents' worth.)

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Author Topic: Suggestion: Cernd/Viconia conflict? (Read 8791 times)

Shrikant