Author Topic: TUTU Credo and additions (Read 24351 times)

Ghreyfain · « **Reply #50 on:** January 28, 2005, 01:24:40 PM »

Quote from: Ashara on January 28, 2005, 01:14:44 PM

Quote from: Ghreyfain on January 28, 2005, 01:04:50 PM
Monday's no good, but tuesday through friday would be.

Or, hey, saturday, as I celebrate my upcoming victory in the Tutu Iron Modder competition! Heheh.

IM Saturday sounds CEWL. Some call me TUTU Queen, Sir, and I beat a once already with a mighty Noober joke... Anyway, sounds good.

Haha, okay, sounds like a plan.

Salk · « **Reply #51 on:** January 28, 2005, 01:42:56 PM »

The common denominator should be TotSC+Official Patch+Baldurdash+Dudelyville fixes. This is my opinion. The Dudleyville's fixes which are NOT final yet (meaning: we are anticipating the times too much here) will have to be approved exclusively by the TuTu team and not by us final users/modders. Nothing prevents the team to modify and enhance the fixes or even exclude some of them. No problems about it.

Of course I am sure SimDing0, Ghreyfain and Japheth appreciate our feedback. They know what I think about it. I just want to say that the game we are speaking about is Baldur's Gate 1 and Tales of the Sword Coast. The TuTu goal is to play such game with the BG 2 engine improvements, offering the best gaming experience possible. Fixing bugs and making the game consistent has to be one of the main interest to promote. What gravitates around TuTu should be adapted to some extent to TuTu and not viceversa although another goal is to maximize compatibility with quality Mods that shouldn't be penalized by Dudleyville's. Cheers!

Andyr · « **Reply #52 on:** January 28, 2005, 01:46:21 PM »

I have posted a list of Dudley 'fixes' which I disagree with in the workroom.

I agree true fixes should be incorporated, but not the rest. And some fixes could be done in better ways.

Salk · « **Reply #53 on:** January 28, 2005, 01:50:15 PM »

Absolutely Andyr! Not all the fixes will be mandatory but we all agree here (I think) that both Baldurdash and Dudleyville contain really really important corrections to the original game. Corrections we cannot let go. In some way and to some extent they will have to be part of TuTu.

NiGHTMARE · « **Reply #54 on:** January 28, 2005, 01:51:17 PM »

BTW guys, if you do integrate Dudleyville and Baldurdash into Tutu, I hope you're prepared for the inevitable tidal wave of posts from people who installed the original versions of the mods before running Tutu (no-one actually reads readmes, remember) and are consequently experiencing various problems

.

Salk · « **Reply #55 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:06:04 PM »

We will put up a newer F.A.Q.!

No problem for that!

SimDing0™ · « **Reply #56 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:07:00 PM »

Well. Ideally, it shouldn't cause a problem if it's installed over the original versions of the mods. We can hope, at least.

Ghreyfain · « **Reply #57 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:10:26 PM »

Except that the original versions will include files that we exclude on the grounds that they will conflict with stuff. Heh.

SimDing0™ · « **Reply #58 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:11:34 PM »

Yeh. I dunno how much that'd muck up though. People'd just get the changes he made that we decided not to include.

Ashara · « **Reply #59 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:27:30 PM »

Absolutely Andyr! Not all the fixes will be mandatory but we all agree here (I think) that both Baldurdash and Dudleyville contain really really important corrections to the original game.

I disagree. I never used Baldurdash or Dudley with BG1. I was able to play BG1 just fine. The way you are talking about it it sounds like BG1 is some unfinished and horrible product. As far as I know it's a released game patched and mainatined by a reliable company that have given me years of pleasurable gaming experience.

*I* consider that no dialogues in BG1 is a problem, turning me off playing it, but do I go whining about including BG1NPC into TUTU main install? No, I make it an add-on so people could decide for themselves, if they want it or not. So why would not let's-fix-it/re-do-it-all people do the same?

Quote from: Andyr on January 28, 2005, 01:46:21 PM

I have posted a list of Dudley 'fixes' which I disagree with in the workroom.

I agree true fixes should be incorporated, but not the rest. And some fixes could be done in better ways.

I would like to take a look at it... if possible.

SimDing0™ · « **Reply #60 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:29:09 PM »

Yes, I think it's time to stop discussing whether the game's more fun with or without bugs, and start identifying specific Dudleyville fixes that shouldn't be included. We'll post the list publically at some point.

Ashara · « **Reply #61 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:31:38 PM »

Please do. At least then it will give me an idea of what horror and disaster I am facing.

Salk · « **Reply #62 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:45:47 PM »

Quote from: Ashara on January 28, 2005, 02:27:30 PM

I disagree. I never used Baldurdash or Dudley with BG1. I was able to play BG1 just fine. The way you are talking about it it sounds like BG1 is some unfinished and horrible product. As far as I know it's a released game patched and mainatined by a reliable company that have given me years of pleasurable gaming experience.

*I* consider that no dialogues in BG1 is a problem, turning me off playing it, but do I go whining about including BG1NPC into TUTU main install? No, I make it an add-on so people could decide for themselves, if they want it or not. So why would not let's-fix-it/re-do-it-all people do the same?

For one thing, English is often an option in the dialogues (not corrected by Dudley's). I think it's a plus to have alll mispelled words corrected. Or should they be preserved in the original spirit of the game ? Would you rather read a book written in perfect english or find mispelled words here and there (they are countless in the game) ?The product *IS* actually unfinished. As long as a product has bugs, a new version is needed to patch them. Bioware couldn't address all the bugs left. Kevin Dorner released first a great update to correct bugs and inconsistencies. Dudley is continuing his work with great results. And by the way Viconia and Jaheira stats had been modified just to match their ability sheet in BG 2.

Also you can't compare the Dudleyfixes and BG1 NPC. They are two totally different kind of Mods. The first aims to correct bugs/inconsistencies of the *original* game and all players benefit from it. BG1 NPC is an add-on to the Baldur's Gate series and as such, would have no reason to be implemented in TuTu.

SimDing0™ · « **Reply #63 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:47:26 PM »

Changing stats to be in line with BG2 is one of the changes we definitely won't be including. BG2 has all sorts of inconsistencies, and trying to iron them out without compromising one game or the other isn't a sensible thing to attempt.

Salk · « **Reply #64 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:50:40 PM »

Quote from: SimDing0™ on January 28, 2005, 02:47:26 PM

Changing stats to be in line with BG2 is one of the changes we definitely won't be including. BG2 has all sorts of inconsistencies, and trying to iron them out without compromising one game or the other isn't a sensible thing to attempt.

I wouldnt have changed those stats myself if it depened on me,Sim. I just meant to say that there had been a reason behind those modifications. It's not that Dudley fell in love with Jaheira and Viconia

Andyr · « **Reply #65 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:54:22 PM »

Ok, I am going to post about Tazok...

I think it is an oversight he can be killed. His script is supposed to stop it. Actually, I myself have not managed to kill him yet!

However, if he is killed I do not think he should be removed from the final battle.

So, how about this. Tutu makes him unkillable.

BG1 NPC can, then, make him killable again so if you do kill him he will show up at the end, and you will see the dialogue with Kivan.

Ok?

As for the other issues, most were minor ones about how to implement the fix (as in, I would do it differently from Dudleyville). Not much else would require recoding of other fixes.

Salk · « **Reply #66 on:** January 28, 2005, 02:59:38 PM »

For what my opinon counts, totally approved Andyr!

The modifications to the joinable NPC abilities won't be implemented although there are still plenty of other modifications to their sheets that instead have much sense.

Ashara · « **Reply #67 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:00:13 PM »

Quote from: Salk on January 28, 2005, 02:45:47 PM

Quote from: Ashara on January 28, 2005, 02:27:30 PM
I disagree. I never used Baldurdash or Dudley with BG1. I was able to play BG1 just fine. The way you are talking about it it sounds like BG1 is some unfinished and horrible product. As far as I know it's a released game patched and mainatined by a reliable company that have given me years of pleasurable gaming experience.

*I* consider that no dialogues in BG1 is a problem, turning me off playing it, but do I go whining about including BG1NPC into TUTU main install? No, I make it an add-on so people could decide for themselves, if they want it or not. So why would not let's-fix-it/re-do-it-all people do the same?

For one thing, English is often an option in the dialogues (not corrected by Dudley's). I think it's a plus to have alll mispelled words corrected. Or should they be preserved in the original spirit of the game ? Would you rather read a book written in perfect english or find mispelled words here and there (they are countless in the game) ?The product *IS* actually unfinished. As long as a product has bugs, a new version is needed to patch them. Bioware couldn't address all the bugs left. Kevin Dorner released first a great update to correct bugs and inconsistencies. Dudley is continuing his work with great results. And by the way Viconia and Jaheira stats had been modified just to match their ability sheet in BG 2.

Also you can't compare the Dudleyfixes and BG1 NPC. They are two totally different kind of Mods. The first aims to correct bugs/inconsistencies of the *original* game and all players benefit from it. BG1 NPC is an add-on to the Baldur's Gate series and as such, would have no reason to be implemented in TuTu.

O, yes? Can't compare?

Well, let me try:

They both modify the game to a player's prefernce. Check.

They both fix game's inconsistency with itself. yes, BG1NPC does. It, for example, provides modification such as Branwen reacting on Tranzig's appearnce or Kivan on Tazok's. Surely, it is an inconsistency within the game itself when they say not a word.

Check.

They both try to improve the game play. Check.

They both try to rectify differences between BG2 and BG1. For example, Dudley's by raising Jaheira's stats and BG1NPC by providing adequate dialogue. Check.

They both have people who welcome and not welcome changes they introduce. Check.

So... how is that our work is now unconsequential and undeserving and it's us who are set back 2 years, not Dudley who never made a single effort to make his fixes compatible with anything?

Ashara · « **Reply #68 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:03:33 PM »

Quote from: Andyr on January 28, 2005, 02:54:22 PM

Ok, I am going to post about Tazok...

I think it is an oversight he can be killed. His script is supposed to stop it. Actually, I myself have not managed to kill him yet!

However, if he is killed I do not think he should be removed from the final battle.

So, how about this. Tutu makes him unkillable. BG1 NPC can, then, make him killable again so if you do kill him he will show up at the end, and you will see the dialogue with Kivan.

Ok?

As for the other issues, most were minor ones about how to implement the fix (as in, I would do it differently from Dudleyville). Not much else would require recoding of other fixes.

And what about placing his gauntlets as a consolation prize in the box to pacify those who'd like to kill him?

What about added strings in the dialogue files?

What about messing with NPCs prophiciencies and Spell selections?

Andyr · « **Reply #69 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:27:22 PM »

I am against moving his gauntlets, and messing with NPCs and dialogues. I think Sim and Ghrey are with me on these.

There are very few instances of new dialogue states. I think we can get rid of/work round them all.

Ashara · « **Reply #70 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:30:06 PM »

I am against moving his gauntlets, and messing with NPCs and dialogues. I think Sim and Ghrey are with me on these.

There are very few instances of new dialogue states. I think we can get rid of/work round them all.

Keeping my fingers crossed

Salk · « **Reply #71 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:31:45 PM »

I am sure you will do a great job together!

SimDing0™ · « **Reply #72 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:48:06 PM »

I'd like to propose the following changes for the next version:

1) Tazok becomes an undead boss in place of Sarevok if you kill him early.
2) Kivan is removed from the game.
3) Sarevok's name is changed to BLADE and he becomes Gorion's flatmate.

icelus · « **Reply #73 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:48:50 PM »

... and an Imoen rape scene, plz.

SimDing0™ · « **Reply #74 on:** January 28, 2005, 03:49:45 PM »

Well obviosuly I didn't mention stuff that's already implemented.

News:

Author Topic: TUTU Credo and additions (Read 24351 times)

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