Author Topic: Kish's Beta Test  (Read 4370 times)

Offline Kish

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Kish's Beta Test
« on: December 30, 2004, 03:42:27 PM »
General

No journal entries in anything I've tested so far except Icelus' Iron Modder entry.  Their absence was very conspicuous.

Moneylender Component

Considering I could tell Ceilie he looked rich and have him laugh and invite me to attack him in front of everyone if I dared, it was a little anticlimactic that he was only carrying 16 gold.  Does anything happen if you kill him without setting off the Copper Coronet (say, by using the Ring of Human Influence and escorting him into the back after you've killed Lehtinan)?

"So what does money-lending entail?"  This question sounds like the PC's brain has leaked out the back of his/her head.  "Well, it entails taking some money, you see, and lending it.  Hence the name..."

In his initial dialogue with the boy, he spoke entirely in passive voice.  I thought that might be a trademark manner of speaking, but now that I'm talking to him he's using active voice, which makes the weird way he spoke to the boy seem just weird.

"That is preposterous!"  Um...preposterous?  The next sentence, "You are exploiting people's poverty," appears to call for a word that condemns the immorality of his actions, not one that flatly denies their possibility.

He's repetitive, too.  "I provide the needy with money to keep them going, which they then repay to me, and a little more, after a certain time."  His very next line includes, "I provide them with money to keep them on their feet, which, after a certain period, they return to me...and a little extra."

"Paid," not "payed."

How does he get new victims if the only way to get him to lend money is to threaten to sic the guards on him?

There is no Moiya anywhere in the slums, which stalls me right at the beginning of his quest.

I question the choice of Brus, Gaelan's nephew, to direct the PC to the moneylender.  Gaelan is astute enough to realize both that borrowing money from the moneylender is a bad move in the long run and that he doesn't want to have to explain to the PC why his nephew gave such bad advice.  Brus might mention that the moneylender exists, but I'd expect it to be in the form of, "There's a moneylender, but you should steer clear o' him."

Icelus' Iron Modder entry

The concluding journal entry for Icelus' Iron Modder entry says "final act of passion," which makes it sound like they did a little more than kiss.

Mae'Var

Swishswishswish, hm?  All Mae'Var's thieves are hidden in the shadows, I take it?  Very nice touch.

The Harpers

The Harpers seem oddly quick to trust, considering the neutrality of "A mage sent me to retrieve his captured companion."  I wouldn't expect them to open up about their plans until you indicated more clearly that you wanted to betray Xzar to them, with something like, "A Zhentarim mage wanted me to infiltrate your compound, and I played along so that I could tell you about him."

After receiving the bird/assassin from Meronia, all the Harpers on the first floor still address me like I'm being set up to sneak upstairs, talking about the guardians and their amulets.  Even Meronia acts like there was never a plan to set you up--"Rylock evidently considered it wise to allow you in"?  That might make sense if they have a backup plan for if you betray them to Xzar, which I don't know because (see below).

Berinvar and Meronia also seem remarkably unsurprised when I tell them about Montaron, considering they were setting me up and didn't expect me to suddenly tell them the truth.

My conversation with Lucette after she kills Xzar is effectively unchanged from when I was acting as a dupe, except for the loss of a couple of my conversation options.  I still have no choice but to act shocked ("You mean Meronia actually meant you were going to kill him when she said you were going to kill him?") and Lucette still chides me as if I'd tried to help Xzar against the Harpers, instead of being allied with them.

Right after Xzar killed Lucette--and I mean right after, before he said anything more, while he was standing there--Meronia appeared to collect Jaheira for her standard return to the Harper Hold.  Jaheira, incidentally, offered not a word of protest to my selling out Lucette.

Xzar sent me back to find out what really happened to Montaron, and I found the door unpickably locked and the door guard gone.  Some part of this may have had to do with Jaheira's departure right after Lucette died.
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Offline Murdane

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Re: Kish's Beta Test
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2004, 05:27:28 PM »


My conversation with Lucette after she kills Xzar is effectively unchanged from when I was acting as a dupe, except for the loss of a couple of my conversation options. I still have no choice but to act shocked ("You mean Meronia actually meant you were going to kill him when she said you were going to kill him?") and Lucette still chides me as if I'd tried to help Xzar against the Harpers, instead of being allied with them.


*nods*  I did notice that from the previous version, and was surprised myself.  Obviously I agree that it should be changed.

Offline jester

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Re: Kish's Beta Test
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2005, 12:24:40 PM »
Isn't Moya on top of the CC near the broken stairs to the Ilmater temple?
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Offline SimDing0

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Re: Kish's Beta Test
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2005, 09:53:14 AM »
Thanks for playing through. As usual, anything that's not specifically mentioned is fixed/addressed.

No journal entries in anything I've tested so far except Icelus' Iron Modder entry. Their absence was very conspicuous.
As mentioned in chat, I think you've just been playing the stuff that happens not to have entries. They're there when appropriate. If you or anyone else know of specific incidences where they should be there but aren't, please do mention.

Quote
Considering I could tell Ceilie he looked rich and have him laugh and invite me to attack him in front of everyone if I dared, it was a little anticlimactic that he was only carrying 16 gold. Does anything happen if you kill him without setting off the Copper Coronet (say, by using the Ring of Human Influence and escorting him into the back after you've killed Lehtinan)?
He now has a bit more money on him. Nothing special happens if you kill him out of sight, except he won't turn the whole Copper Coronet hostile.

Quote
How does he get new victims if the only way to get him to lend money is to threaten to sic the guards on him?
He approaches people (or his thugs direct them to him). I've modified the dialogue slightly to have him mention this.

Quote
There is no Moiya anywhere in the slums, which stalls me right at the beginning of his quest.
Sometimes she spawns, sometimes she doesn't. I think I've really fixed it this time.

Quote
Swishswishswish, hm? All Mae'Var's thieves are hidden in the shadows, I take it? Very nice touch.
Thanks. Out of interest, has anyone fought Mae'Var now? I'm concerned that tons of backstab damage will be too much for a chapter 2 party to take.

Quote
Right after Xzar killed Lucette--and I mean right after, before he said anything more, while he was standing there--Meronia appeared to collect Jaheira for her standard return to the Harper Hold. Jaheira, incidentally, offered not a word of protest to my selling out Lucette.
As discussed, there's now a delay before Meronia spawns. Hopefully everything works okay with her spawning in all situations now. If someone other than me can confirm this when I put out a new beta, that'd be great.

Quote
The Harpers seem oddly quick to trust, considering the neutrality of "A mage sent me to retrieve his captured companion." I wouldn't expect them to open up about their plans until you indicated more clearly that you wanted to betray Xzar to them, with something like, "A Zhentarim mage wanted me to infiltrate your compound, and I played along so that I could tell you about him."

After receiving the bird/assassin from Meronia, all the Harpers on the first floor still address me like I'm being set up to sneak upstairs, talking about the guardians and their amulets. Even Meronia acts like there was never a plan to set you up--"Rylock evidently considered it wise to allow you in"? That might make sense if they have a backup plan for if you betray them to Xzar, which I don't know because (see below).

Berinvar and Meronia also seem remarkably unsurprised when I tell them about Montaron, considering they were setting me up and didn't expect me to suddenly tell them the truth.

My conversation with Lucette after she kills Xzar is effectively unchanged from when I was acting as a dupe, except for the loss of a couple of my conversation options. I still have no choice but to act shocked ("You mean Meronia actually meant you were going to kill him when she said you were going to kill him?") and Lucette still chides me as if I'd tried to help Xzar against the Harpers, instead of being allied with them.

Xzar sent me back to find out what really happened to Montaron, and I found the door unpickably locked and the door guard gone. Some part of this may have had to do with Jaheira's departure right after Lucette died.
I've yet to address all of this, but will do so when I rework the quest dialogue so it (hopefully) sucks a bit less.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2005, 09:55:16 AM by SimDing0 »

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Kish's Beta Test
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2005, 01:30:47 PM »
Thanks for playing through. As usual, anything that's not specifically mentioned is fixed/addressed.
Quote
Considering I could tell Ceilie he looked rich and have him laugh and invite me to attack him in front of everyone if I dared, it was a little anticlimactic that he was only carrying 16 gold. Does anything happen if you kill him without setting off the Copper Coronet (say, by using the Ring of Human Influence and escorting him into the back after you've killed Lehtinan)?
He now has a bit more money on him. Nothing special happens if you kill him out of sight, except he won't turn the whole Copper Coronet hostile.
My eyebrow went up when I saw that I could tell him I knew all about him being a moneylender when I'd never even seen or heard of him before. I saw no mention of him from either Gaelan or Brus.

Quote
Quote
Swishswishswish, hm? All Mae'Var's thieves are hidden in the shadows, I take it? Very nice touch.
Thanks. Out of interest, has anyone fought Mae'Var now? I'm concerned that tons of backstab damage will be too much for a chapter 2 party to take.
True. In previous runs against Improved Mae'Var, I simply pickpocketed the hell out of everybody before the fight (you know you're gonna kill them eventually, and you're robbing Gorch blind while you still can, so better get the most out of your Potions of Master Thievery), so there was no Backstabbing during the fight at all.
Quest Pack Mae'Var is the right difficulty for a Chapter 2-3 party. So far, we've done the Circus and the whole Coronet quests, and then we got Renal's quest and attacked Mae'Var on sight. The Backstabbing is indeed nasty, but then, my only party member that tended to die was my unarmored Bard with no defensive spells up. And Mae'Var himself was a cakewalk. I would keep his Assassins as-is, beef up his Priest of Cyric so that he lives long enough to cast something besides Bless, and give the man himself some defensive spells in an "Enemy Sighted" Contingency (with a lot more spells if you're doing this in Chapter 6), so he has time to at least try to kill you. Just don't go as far as Blucher's version, with its Mislead cheese and not being able to leave once you've entered.

Offline SixOfSpades

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Re: Kish's Beta Test
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2005, 05:00:50 PM »
In his initial dialogue with the boy, he spoke entirely in passive voice. I thought that might be a trademark manner of speaking, but now that I'm talking to him he's using active voice, which makes the weird way he spoke to the boy seem just weird.
IMHO, this actually makes a great deal of sense. When people are talking about things they'd rather not feel personal guilt about (such as throwing a family out into the street to starve), they use the passive voice to distance themselves from the events and diffuse the blame. Sure, I'm the one who tells the thugs where you live, but don't look at me. "These things happen."

 

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