Author Topic: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)  (Read 15463 times)

Offline WolfCatBot

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Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« on: December 27, 2004, 12:02:40 PM »
I recently stayed up all night watching The Two Towers and Return of the King, and a lot of The Fellowship of the Ring (From the start of the fellowship and just about everything after). :D All of them being the Extended version, woof. 8 or 9 hours or something, party party! !:) Sooooo I have a few questions and stuffffff! !:D

1. Who are the Haradrim exactly, and why are they evil? :( It's a shame, I thought they looked super cool desert ninja-ey, and the oliphaunts were soooooo cute. :D Dey shoulda been good guys!

2. I heard that there were other good guys that showed up during the fight at Pelennor(?) Fields, in the book. Rangers, or something? Who were they? ?:D I wanted to see more Rangers. ;_;

3. Why can Eowyn kill the Homey D Witch King of Angmar? :D I know she's "Not a man" as in "Not male" but didn't the Witch King (And Gandalf) mean "Man" as in "Human(s)?" Was it like that in the book? Because, dude...

4. How come Gandalf never laid some magical smackdown after the Balrog fight? Didn't he come back as a new hip mage guy? The only magic he did was an exorcism, and two light shows. No fireballs, or thunderbolts, or HOLYGODEXPLOSIONNNNNs. I don't mind not seeing those, but they would have been useful in all the fighting. :D Like BAMHOCUSPOCUS! And that Grond thing is turned inta dust!

5. Did Gollum look like that in the book? Because I watched the Hobbit cartoon when I was a wee one, and Gollum looked way more pleasant. ;_; Kind of like the Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Troglodytes, except black and with a more pointed head. Yeahhh, that was cool. :D Now he looks... yowch. :D If he was like the Hobbit cartoon Gollum, I would have had a lot more fun in his scenes. :(

6. Do the Ents ever find the Entwives? I hope so! The Ents were probably my favorite. :D

7. Who was Sauron, and why is he so mean?

8. Whatever happens to Legolas and Gimli? :D Or... Eomer? :D Brego? Shadowfax? The Ents? The Eagles? Shelob? Am I missing anyone? :( I think Faramir and Eowyn get together, is that true? :D They should have had more ending scenes for the other characters. :( Toooooo much hobbit stuff.

9. Why did all the bad guys pack up and run away after the Sauron biggatower fell down? They could have won still, I think?

10. Where the dragons at?

11. Are the Rohan supposed to be better at fighting than the Gondorians? Because the Gondorians kind of... died, mostly.

12. Were there other continents and such, that had nothing to do with the big Sauron war? If not, Middle Earth seems like one small place, yow.

13. Are there female orcs?

14. Why did Theoden die!?!?!? ;_;
It was called victim. :D

Offline Alarielle

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2004, 01:27:32 PM »
I can supply a few answers, GC, though it has been a while since I last read the books. :)

2: In the book, Rangers from the North (Aragorn's kinsmen, I suppose) do appear at this battle, yes.  So do many other people including Arwen's two brothers.

3: Yup, that's exactly how it happens in the book :)

5: The film version of Gollum is roughly based on the drawings by Alan Lee from the books of The Lord of the Rings, so yes.

6: You never find out in The Lord of the Rings, but the hobbits do promise to keep an eye out ;)

8: As far as I remember, Legolas and Gimli live out their lives showing each other the wonders of the world, as it were.  Legolas sets up a kind of Elf colony in Minas Tirith.  After Aragorn dies, Legolas has a ship built so he and Gimli can pass into the Undying Lands (like Frodo etc).

10: Dragons were basically extinct by this point in time.

11: No, the men of Rohan were not better fighters necessarily, but they did have much stronger leadership.  The men of Gondor were fighting under the banner of a broken house and the command of an insane man, so it's not surprising they sucked a little :P

12: At the time of LotR, there were 5 continents.  Middle Earth, The Undying Lands, Sunlands, Darklands and Far Harad.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2004, 01:38:23 PM by Alarielle »
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Offline Meira

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2004, 01:41:56 PM »
I recommend reading the books, you can find answers to nearly all of your questions there.  :) Make sure that your copy has the appendixes too.

Offline SeanFan

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2004, 03:45:19 PM »
I'll give it a go, having read LotR umpty-ump times. Though I agree with Meira that you should probably bite the bullet and read the books--including the appendices.

I recently stayed up all night watching The Two Towers and Return of the King, and a lot of The Fellowship of the Ring (From the start of the fellowship and just about everything after). :D All of them being the Extended version, woof. 8 or 9 hours or something, party party! !:) Sooooo I have a few questions and stuffffff! !:D

1. Who are the Haradrim exactly, and why are they evil? :( It's a shame, I thought they looked super cool desert ninja-ey, and the oliphaunts were soooooo cute. :D Dey shoulda been good guys!

Hmm, whole lot of complicated history there. Short version, the men of Eastern and Southern part of the ME had long been controlled by Sauron, and also had long been enemies of Gondor. But from what Tolkien has Sam say in TTT (it's Faramir in the TTT EE) it's pretty clear that Tolkien doesn't think of Easterlings/Haradrim as *inherently* evil, but they had been under the sway of Sauron for thousands of years.

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2. I heard that there were other good guys that showed up during the fight at Pelennor(?) Fields, in the book. Rangers, or something? Who were they? ?:D I wanted to see more Rangers. ;_;

Yep, as Alarielle said, a group of Aragorn's kinsmen and the twin sons of Elrond appear just before they go through the Paths of the Dead. They accompany A, L & G, through the PotD and then fight in the Battle of Pelennor Fields.

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3. Why can Eowyn kill the Homey D Witch King of Angmar? :D I know she's "Not a man" as in "Not male" but didn't the Witch King (And Gandalf) mean "Man" as in "Human(s)?" Was it like that in the book? Because, dude...

That's why it's a prophecy, dude. It's gotta be cryptic and fulfilled in an unexpected way.  :) Of course, everyone thought that "man" meant "human", that was the trick. But also, in the book it is clear that Merry's participation was crucial. In FotR he picked up a sword forged by one of Aragorn's ancestors during their battles with the Witch-King of Angmar, and it had some special magic it that allowed the WK to be killed. Here's the text from the book:

"But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dunedain were young, and the chief among their foes as the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt a blow so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will."

Cool, huh?

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4. How come Gandalf never laid some magical smackdown after the Balrog fight? Didn't he come back as a new hip mage guy? The only magic he did was an exorcism, and two light shows. No fireballs, or thunderbolts, or HOLYGODEXPLOSIONNNNNs. I don't mind not seeing those, but they would have been useful in all the fighting. :D Like BAMHOCUSPOCUS! And that Grond thing is turned inta dust!

Another long answer would be required to fully explain why Gandalf's 'magical' powers seem limited. For one thing, Tolkien's use of magic was never the flashy D&D stuff that most people associate with wizards. For another, Gandalf was specifically restricted by the Valar (the god-like beings who sent him to ME) from using his powers in that way. He was supposed to aid and inspire the people of ME to defeat Sauron, not go mano-a-mano with Sauron. In the book, all that happens is that Gandalf confronts the WK at the gates of Minas Tirith, but then the WK turns away when the Rohirrim arrive. The "knocked off horse and wand destroyed" stuff was pure PJ. Truth be told, I thought it made Gandalf look too weak, since he is inherently a *much* more powerful creature than the WK.

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5. Did Gollum look like that in the book? Because I watched the Hobbit cartoon when I was a wee one, and Gollum looked way more pleasant. ;_; Kind of like the Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Troglodytes, except black and with a more pointed head. Yeahhh, that was cool. :D Now he looks... yowch. :D If he was like the Hobbit cartoon Gollum, I would have had a lot more fun in his scenes. :(

In a word, yes, at least in my imagination, and I think it the imagination of most other people who've read the books. Book Gollum was *not* cuddly or cute, but creepy and wretched, completely twisted by his long possession of the Ring.

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6. Do the Ents ever find the Entwives? I hope so! The Ents were probably my favorite. :D

You have good taste; I adore Treebeard. As Alarielle said, we never find out, but it doesn't look good.

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7. Who was Sauron, and why is he so mean?

Geez, how long do you want this post to be?

Here's the super-condensed version:  Sauron, Gandalf and Saruman are all Maiar, powerful immortal spirit beings that have been embodied to look like mortal beings. (Maiar are one step below the Valar in power.) Waaaay back, not long after the creation of the world, Sauron was corrupted by Melkor, the evil Vala who became known as Morgoth, the Great Enemy, and became his most powerful servant. After Morgoth was defeated by the other Valar at the end of the First Age, Sauron disappeared for a time, then reappeared all ready to hang out his solo shingle as ME's resident Evil Overlord.

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8. Whatever happens to Legolas and Gimli? :D Or... Eomer? :D Brego? Shadowfax? The Ents? The Eagles? Shelob? Am I missing anyone? :( I think Faramir and Eowyn get together, is that true? :D They should have had more ending scenes for the other characters. :( Toooooo much hobbit stuff.

Legolas: starts a colony of elves in Ithilien. Gimli: starts a colony of dwarves that dwell in the glittering caves behind Helm's Deep. As Alarielle said, after Aragorn dies, Legolas builds a ship to sail to the Undying Lands and takes Gimli with him. This is a *huge* deal, since although Legolas as a elf was welcome, very, very few mortals were allowed to travel to the Undying Lands. Rumor says that Galadriel intervened and asked that Gimli be allowed to come.

Eomer: becomes King of Rohan, maintains life-long friendship with Gondor and Aragorn. Happily-ever-after stuff.

Faramir & Eowyn: They get married, Faramir becomes Prince of Ithilien. More happily-ever-after stuff.

Others you mentioned: Tolkien never says explicitly.

Aren't you interested in what happens to Sam, Merry and Pippin?
 
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9. Why did all the bad guys pack up and run away after the Sauron biggatower fell down? They could have won still, I think?

You mean other than the fact that the big-a$$ earthquake swallowed them up?  :) Actually, though it wasn't made obvious in the movie, the orcs & trolls were to a large degree driven by Sauron's will and when that was removed, they kinda lost the will to fight.

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10. Where the dragons at?

As Alarielle said, pretty much gone by the time of the War of the Ring. They were created by Morgoth, and many died when he was defeated at the end of the First Age. Smaug was one of the few remaining ones.

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11. Are the Rohan supposed to be better at fighting than the Gondorians? Because the Gondorians kind of... died, mostly.

I'm going to disagree with Alarielle here. Even though Gondor had declined from it's previous might, it was still a much more powerful and advanced country than Rohan. The advantage that Rohan had in this particular battle was simply its horses. Cavalry have a HUGE advantage over infantry in a situation like that, and coming down on Mordor's armies suddenly meant they could deal a devastating blow to them, even though they were vastly outnumbered.

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12. Were there other continents and such, that had nothing to do with the big Sauron war? If not, Middle Earth seems like one small place, yow.

The area of ME that we see in the movies is about the size of Europe, but there are huge tracts of land to the East and South (where the Easterlings and Haradrim come from) that we do not see. So I'd guess we saw about 1/4 to 1/3 of the entire continent. In addition, there is another whole continent to the west, Aman, where the Valar dwell.

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13. Are there female orcs?

Tolkien was silent on that particular point, however, he was pretty much a traditionalist, so I imagine he assumed orcs procreate in the old-fashioned way. The whole pod thing was a creation of PJ, but not one I have any problems with; after all, would you *want* to see an orc baby? Ewww.

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14. Why did Theoden die!?!?!? ;_;

Hmm, I thought that one was obvious. His horse fell on him and crushed him. He says, "My body is broken" remember?

Hope that helps!

By the way, one of the reasons that I think Tolkien's work is so beloved is the incredible richness of the history of ME and its people. I love PJ's movies, but I think you really, really need to read the books to appreciate it for the incredible achievement that it is.

Offline lennon

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2004, 04:01:27 PM »
I was going to do a point by point as has Seanfan, but

1   She beat me to it
2   Its just as well, she's jolly well informed

I'd still add however that WRT to reading, you need to look at the Silmarillion, its not an easy read (nor in my mind particualry fun) but it does cover some of what you ask.

WRT Q11 - Stuff from the book is ignored with respect to the fighting prowess of the Men of Gondor and the generals of the army. One of the Priinces of Gondor is ignored in the film, as is the Captain who befriends Merry. The film(LOTR:ROTK)  is a simpler story than the book. Its interesting how the odd line in the book is expanded to major events, while whole characters, loves, and events removed. (Some of it rightly  ;D )

Offline SeanFan

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2004, 04:15:52 PM »
I was going to do a point by point as has Seanfan, but

1   She beat me to it
2   Its just as well, she's jolly well informed

Thanks!

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I'd still add however that WRT to reading, you need to look at the Silmarillion, its not an easy read (nor in my mind particualry fun) but it does cover some of what you ask.

Shhhh! I was trying to ease him into the idea of reading LotR, and the Sil is one imposing mother of a book. But yeah, the stuff about Sauron and Gandalf is from the Silmarillion. (I'm just grateful he didn't ask about the downfall of Numenor or the history of the two kingdoms of Gondor. They take forever to explain!)

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WRT Q11 - Stuff from the book is ignored with respect to the fighting prowess of the Men of Gondor and the generals of the army. One of the Priinces of Gondor is ignored in the film, as is the Captain who befriends Merry. The film(LOTR:ROTK)  is a simpler story than the book. Its interesting how the odd line in the book is expanded to major events, while whole characters, loves, and events removed. (Some of it rightly  ;D )

Do you mean Pippin? If so, yeah, I missed Beregond and Bergil, and Prince Imrahil, though I do understand why PJ left them out.

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2004, 04:32:28 PM »
Jansens aren't as harmless like everybody supposes!
They got them stumpy legs and puffy potato noses!
And what's with all the turnips?
Why do they eat so much root vegetables, anyway?
Jansens, Jansens,
It must be Jansens!!!
(or it could be griffins)

Offline lennon

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2004, 05:27:25 PM »
I was going to do a point by point as has Seanfan, but

1   She beat me to it
2   Its just as well, she's jolly well informed

Thanks!

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I'd still add however that WRT to reading, you need to look at the Silmarillion, its not an easy read (nor in my mind particualry fun) but it does cover some of what you ask.

Shhhh! I was trying to ease him into the idea of reading LotR, and the Sil is one imposing mother of a book. But yeah, the stuff about Sauron and Gandalf is from the Silmarillion. (I'm just grateful he didn't ask about the downfall of Numenor or the history of the two kingdoms of Gondor. They take forever to explain!)
Take your point, but I had to struggle through it  ;D BTW I mean struggle.
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WRT Q11 - Stuff from the book is ignored with respect to the fighting prowess of the Men of Gondor and the generals of the army. One of the Priinces of Gondor is ignored in the film, as is the Captain who befriends Merry. The film(LOTR:ROTK)  is a simpler story than the book. Its interesting how the odd line in the book is expanded to major events, while whole characters, loves, and events removed. (Some of it rightly  ;D )

Do you mean Pippin? If so, yeah, I missed Beregond and Bergil, and Prince Imrahil, though I do understand why PJ left them out.

Yeah,  I mean Pippin not Merry, I was referring to Beregond & Imrahil, but also the reaving of the shire! (Which I don't undertand why it was left out)

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Offline discharger12

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2004, 06:13:46 PM »
12. Were there other continents and such, that had nothing to do with the big Sauron war? If not, Middle Earth seems like one small place, yow.

There are places in Middle Earth that the elves went to get away from Sauron. In these places the other... gods(?) could protect them. At least, that's what a friend told me. I can't remember all of what he said, but it was something like Sauron could not go anywhere else in Middle Earth..

Offline Eral

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2004, 07:15:03 PM »
They left out the reaving of the Shire because the film was too long.

Yeah, everybody gets a laugh from the "Legolas and Gimli are gay" joke (and it's SO old) but how come we never hear any "Sam and Frodo sitting in a tree" jokes? Hmm? Elves and dwarves are funnier than hobbits?

When the FotR was first a sucess I read an article saying Tolkien wrote the series as a response to WW2. That made a lot of sense to me - the absence of women, the necessity/evil of warfare, the strong bonds b/w the male characters, the master/servant relationships(particularly in the British Army, where class was so important to role), the importance of homecoming.

What I want to know is, how come PJ waited until RotK to muck around with the story?! Yeah, sure there were little things - Arwen on a horse, characters missing - but he didn't mess with textual events. Until the last film. When he has Frodo ordering Sam to leave. And Sam does.  I ask you. How could he even imagine such a complete corruption of their devotion to and faith in each other? It's the central relationship/romance in the story. And having been so true to the story for the 2 preceding films, he gets a burst of creative licence in the last one.
I refuse to buy the DVD.

Edit: actually, he did mess with the text in TT, where Legolas wants to abandon the Keep, but Aragorn convinces him to stay. Somehow, this did not distress me too much, as I could run with Legolas not really concerning himself with the fate of humans. Whereas I completely reject Sam turning his back on Frodo, in a tiff, or Gollum having the intelligence/persuasive ability to sway Frodo.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2004, 10:25:21 PM by Eral »
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Offline discharger12

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2004, 07:23:50 PM »
Hmm... I think your looking into the story way to much. I mean, come on. It's just a movie.

Offline Eral

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2004, 10:37:14 PM »
Echani, you're so funny. On the Kinsey Scale of Lord Of The Ringness, you are clearly a 1. It's something people only 4 and above can understand...

I met a man who wanted to know why PJ hadn't made The Silmarillion into a film. (He was definitely a 6.)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2004, 10:58:42 PM by Eral »
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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2004, 12:32:45 AM »
Way cool, thanks a bunch everyone! ^_^

1. I see. :( Uwaahhhh, poor Haradrim kind of. ;_;

2. Thanks, that's way hip! :D Too bad it wasn't in the movie meow. :D

3. Okey, woof. :D Yeah, I remember Merry stabbing him in the leg or such. :D And then his hand burning, owwy.

4. Thankies. :D I just thought that there could be fireballs and things because Saruman threw one at Gandalf. :D

5. Hmm. :D I wonder where the Hobbit cartoon's Gollum came from, then. :)

6. Thankies! ^_^ Yiss, Treebeard was super. :D Oy :( Well, I hope they found them, anyway. ;_;

7. Sorry! The super-condensed version was helpful though, thanks. :D

8. Happy endings!!!! !:D Oh, I wasn't uninterested in the Hobbit stuff. :) I just think that there was a biggggg focus on the hobbits at the end, when there were other good guys too! ;_; Like Brego! :D Gogo Brego! !:D

9. I forgot about the earthquake, sorry. ;_; I get it now, then. :D

10. :'(

11.Thankies, woof. :D Yeah, the horses were great! :D Realllllly really cute, and hooves of fury! !:D

12. Thankies. :)

13. Hmm... I would've. :D

14. I knowsy why he dieds, but why did he have to die?? ;_; If that makes sense. :( That was so sad. :(


It did help a lot, thankies. :D

What are the books like? Do they read like more recent fantasy novels, or like Shakespeare? :D

Oliphaunts!
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Offline Kish

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2004, 12:44:25 AM »
Who was Brego, now?
Beauty standing amidst fiery destruction.

Offline cliffette

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2004, 12:47:19 AM »
WolfCat, the books are quite formal in style. You won't get the cute jokes or (much) colloquial language often found in modern fantasy novels, although there is humour there. Is it enough if I tell you that Tolkien uses the word 'Alas!' in them? They make more sense than Shakespeare, though.


Eral, Peter Jackson also messed with the Two Towers when he sent the elves in to fight the orcs at Helm's Deep. Faramir's character was changed from noble soul who had no want for the ring to someone who kidnapped Frodo and Sam in his lust for it.

As for the Sam/Frodo jokes - could it be that you haven't seen the VSDs?

More messing around: If you look at the extended edition of The Return of the King, there were also plans (scrapped eventually) for a Sauron vs Aragorn fight.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2004, 04:46:57 AM by cliffette »

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2004, 01:51:31 AM »
Brego was Aragorn's horse! :D He was so cute! And so was the scene where he licked Aragorn, hehe.


Thankies missus Cliffette. :D Umm... huh. Might be hard to read, yow. :D Well, my brother in law might have the bookies, so maybe I could borrow them or something, woof. :D I neeeeddddd to learn more about the Haradrim, miaow!

I feel like reading fantasy stuff in general nowsy. :D
It was called victim. :D

Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2004, 02:58:12 AM »
More messing around: If you look at the extended edition of The Return of the King, there were also plans (scrapped eventually) for a Sauron vs Aragorn fight.
A WHAT?! That'd be the shortest fight in history. Sauron hits Aragorn. Aragorn Dies.
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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2004, 04:46:11 AM »
It's in the storyboards, but it's there.

And it's more like - Sauron hits Aragorn, Aragorn falls over, then manages to stab Sauron in the belly while he's momentarily distracted (I think this is where Frodo claimed the ring and placed it on his finger). Sauron, being immortal, remains alive and steps onto Aragorn's chest, ready to stab him. Meanwhile at Mt Doom, Frodo drops the ring, which melts into nothing and Sauron dies by virtue of the stabwound that Aragorn inflicted.  :-\
« Last Edit: December 28, 2004, 04:48:24 AM by cliffette »

Offline Veloxyll

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2004, 06:41:27 AM »
ew, thank god they didn't go with that. I think Peter Jackson would've been dying by stab wounds if they had.
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Offline SeanFan

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2004, 09:08:00 AM »
WolfCat, the books are quite formal in style. You won't get the cute jokes or (much) colloquial language often found in modern fantasy novels, although there is humour there. Is it enough if I tell you that Tolkien uses the word 'Alas!' in them? They make more sense than Shakespeare, though.

Yeah, the quote I posted is a good example of the type of language he uses. If you like that sort of thing--and I love it--it's great, but I imagine it could be off-putting if you've only read fiction that's written in colloquial language.

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Eral, Peter Jackson also messed with the Two Towers when he sent the elves in to fight the orcs at Helm's Deep. Faramir's character was changed from noble soul who had no want for the ring to someone who kidnapped Frodo and Sam in his lust for it.

I'm a huge Tolkien fan, and I have problems with some things that PJ did in the movies, but neither of these things bothered me a bit. The introduction of the elves at Helm's Deep was a good way to make the point that the elves weren't just onlookers in the fight against Sauron. In the books, it's a lot clearer, and in the appendices they describe how both the elves of Lothlorien and Mirkwood had to deal with huge invading armies in their lands. There was just no good way to show that in the movies.

As for Faramir, I love the character, but he is portrayed in the book as a very static, one-dimensional, uncorruptible kind of guy. Having him capture the hobbits, chat with them for a while, them let them go would have had absolutely no dramatic tension at all. And I very much disagree that he captured Frodo out of personal lust for the Ring. I think it's quite clear, and even more so in the EEs, that his prime motivation was that he knew his father would want the Ring. But when he realized it was so dangerous, he decided to let them go anyway. If he had really been motivated by lust for the Ring like Boromir had been, he would not have been able to do that.

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More messing around: If you look at the extended edition of The Return of the King, there were also plans (scrapped eventually) for a Sauron vs Aragorn fight.

Well, the important thing is that he didn't do it, just like he didn't have Arwen appear to fight at Helm's Deep. I do understand the wish to have Sauron a more defined character than a giant flaming eye, but he did realize that it just wouldn't work to have him appear in person.

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2004, 09:34:37 AM »

Eral, Peter Jackson also messed with the Two Towers when he sent the elves in to fight the orcs at Helm's Deep. Faramir's character was changed from noble soul who had no want for the ring to someone who kidnapped Frodo and Sam in his lust for it.

I'm a huge Tolkien fan, and I have problems with some things that PJ did in the movies, but neither of these things bothered me a bit. The introduction of the elves at Helm's Deep was a good way to make the point that the elves weren't just onlookers in the fight against Sauron. In the books, it's a lot clearer, and in the appendices they describe how both the elves of Lothlorien and Mirkwood had to deal with huge invading armies in their lands. There was just no good way to show that in the movies.


Now forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think that it was easier for PJ to bring in the elves to help at Helm Deep instead of at Minas Tirath, only because it would be easier than explaining how Treebeard sent the trees to aid the humans at Helm's Deep while the Ents dealt with Isengaard. At least, that's what I was told. I've got to reread that part.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2004, 09:42:30 AM by Daerthax »
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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2004, 10:31:32 AM »

Now forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think that it was easier for PJ to bring in the elves to help at Helm Deep instead of at Minas Tirath, only because it would be easier than explaining how Treebeard sent the trees to aid the humans at Helm's Deep while the Ents dealt with Isengaard. At least, that's what I was told. I've got to reread that part.

Unless I'm misremembering, in the book no elves fought at the Battle of Pelennor Fields either, other than Elladan and Elrohir (the twin sons of Elrond) and Legolas.

As for the reasons I think it makes sense that PJ had the elves go to Helm's Deep rather than Minas Tirith, I think it is because 1) It is a good counterpoint to Theoden's statement that nobody is willing to help Rohan in their hour of need, and 2) HD was a small-enough scale battle that 200 archers from Lothlorien could actually make a difference in the outcome of the battle. Their contribution would have been insignificant at tBoPF.

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2004, 11:22:22 AM »
Echani, you're so funny. On the Kinsey Scale of Lord Of The Ringness, you are clearly a 1. It's something people only 4 and above can understand...

I met a man who wanted to know why PJ hadn't made The Silmarillion into a film. (He was definitely a 6.)

I've never read the entire Simarillion myself, but as I recall it is only a collection of things that Tolkien never actually wrote into a book. How could that be made a movie?

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Re: Lord of the Rings questions! (Spoilers!)
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2004, 01:53:56 PM »
Echani, you're so funny. On the Kinsey Scale of Lord Of The Ringness, you are clearly a 1. It's something people only 4 and above can understand...

I met a man who wanted to know why PJ hadn't made The Silmarillion into a film. (He was definitely a 6.)

I've never read the entire Simarillion myself, but as I recall it is only a collection of things that Tolkien never actually wrote into a book. How could that be made a movie?

actually the tale of turin turambar would make a wonderful movie...

the death of morgoth, sauron's master...and quite a few stories could probably be spliced together..

i gotta check my extended version for that sauron aragorn fight... >:( >:( >:(

gotta have been those studio heads demanding more action scenes to boost ticket sales..

thankfully peter resisted them... :pirate
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