Author Topic: SimKishCo  (Read 23861 times)

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: SimKishCo
« Reply #100 on: January 09, 2005, 05:50:21 AM »
Both Beholders and Mind Flayers would notice and take exception if one of their kin broke from the norm.

As I've already mentioned, Beholders would kill another Beholder simply because it had different skin colour, let alone different behavioural patterns. What are the chances of any creature not only learning to pretend to be normal fast enough (i.e. within an extremely short time of being born), and be such an exceptionally skilled actor to emulate the actions of its kin whilst remaining non-evil during every waking hour? A couple of billion-to-one, I'd say :D. As I said, a Beholder growing up outside of a hive stands a much better chance of being non-evil, but that's irrelevant because we're talking about a hive ;).

In order to be non-evil, a Mind Flayer would have to refuse to eat the brains of sentient beings, not use dominated slaves, not obey (or at least find a more peaceful workaround) any evil commands the master brain and senior Illithids gave it, etc. Other Mind Flayers in the same city would consider this an outrage, and at best exile the "non-sentientarian". At worst they would kill it. So again you could encounter non-evil Mind Flayers outside a city, but again that doesn't matter to use because we're discussing Mind Flayers in a city.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 06:05:59 AM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline Murdane

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Re: SimKishCo
« Reply #101 on: January 09, 2005, 04:35:56 PM »
But as I mentioned before, the drow will kill any good drow in a city as well (and certainly drow suspected of worshipping Eilistraee), and I don't see how that is any less evil than killing others of their kind simply for being different.  So in terms of "evillness", I don't see a huge difference between the races, unless drow are more deserving of mercy simply because they are humanoids and less "alien" than beholders or mind flayers.

Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: SimKishCo
« Reply #102 on: January 09, 2005, 04:54:52 PM »
But as I mentioned before, drow are a lot more tolerant of differences of opinion and personality (just so long as inferiors obey their superiors), and it would be a much easier task for a drow to fake being evil than it would be for a beholder or a mind flayer.

BTW a mind flayer who only ate the brains of non-sentient creatures would be extremely easy to spot: just look for the village idiot :P
« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 04:57:05 PM by NiGHTMARE »
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Offline Murdane

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Re: SimKishCo
« Reply #103 on: January 09, 2005, 04:58:46 PM »
But as I mentioned before, drow are a lot more tolerant of differences of opinion and personality (just so long as inferiors obey their superiors), and it would be a much easier task for a drow to fake being evil than it would be for a beholder or a mind flayer.

To me, the fact that they'll kill their own kind just for being good or weak already makes them egregiously evil though.  Even if they are "less" evil than the beholders and mind flayers (and the MM says no such thing), the difference can't be all that great.


Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: SimKishCo
« Reply #104 on: January 09, 2005, 05:25:12 PM »
Not to mention the fact that the PC is highly unlikely to know any of this, anyways.  He might know that the majority of beholders and illithid are evil, sure, which is why I don't think it should be a virtue hit to take up the Matron's quest.  The PC might intend to scour the underdark until he finds an elder orb that he can prove is evil.  It just so happens that when he pokes his head into the beholder lair and finds an elder orb, it won't talk to him, and promptly starts blasting him.  I think that absolves him of any wrongdoing, or whatever the phrase is.

Think about what'd happen if he met Solaufein before being turned into a drow.  Solaufein might very well try to bargain with him first, but an evil or unthinking PC might attack without hesitation, simply because he's a drow.  Or, maybe Solaufein is ordered to kill the PC on a routine patrol.  The PC didn't know he was in drow territory, and Solaufein would be inclined not to kill him, but I think he still would.  Is the PC evil for fighting a good member of an evil race in self-defense?

That could very well be what would happen with a hypothetical good beholder.

PC agrees to Ardulace's task.  Secretly decides to only slay an evil elder orb.
PC, disguised as drow, enters beholder lair to interrogate any elder orbs he finds.
LG beholder sees drow enter his house, and attacks.
PC says "wait!" but realises that against such a powerful foe any hesitation could mean his death, so fights back.
LG beholder bites it.
PC might regret having to slay a LG beholder, but as it is he has no clue that it was LG, and most likely assumes it was evil, then chops off its eyeball.

Virtuous?  Maybe not, but the intent was there.  Unvirtuous?  I don't think so.  Misunderstandings are tragic, yeah, but not evil.
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Offline NiGHTMARE

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Re: SimKishCo
« Reply #105 on: January 09, 2005, 05:51:38 PM »
To me, the fact that they'll kill their own kind just for being good or weak already makes them egregiously evil though. Even if they are "less" evil than the beholders and mind flayers (and the MM says no such thing), the difference can't be all that great.


I'm not saying drow are any more or any less evil than beholders or mind flayers.  I'm simply saying the chances of encountering a non-evil drow are many times higher than meeting a non-evil beholder of mind flayer.  This is not because there's less chance of a non-evil beholder or mind flayer existing in the first place, but because non-evil drow would find it a lot easier to cover up their non-evil status.
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Offline Murdane

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Re: SimKishCo
« Reply #106 on: January 09, 2005, 06:30:11 PM »
There are a lot of good points being made here, and Nightmare, I agree with much of what you are saying. I just don't agree with the idea that drow are somehow more deserving of mercy than the other underdark races, nor do I think that killing them and/or "wiping out" a whole city of them is somehow a greater evil than wiping out the beholder and/or mind flayer lairs.

About Soloufein--he is LN (not CG as he is made to be in the Soloufein mod), and when you talk to him he gives off the impression that he "does what he must", though not always without protest. Therefore, I would agree that if he was ordered to kill the PC for some reason, he would do it without much (if any) hesistation.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 08:51:17 PM by Murdane »

 

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