Poll

Who do you use tomes and other enhancements (like from the machine) on?

Just on myself.
5 (31.3%)
The appropriate character of the group (Wis for group cleric as an example).
8 (50%)
Whoever happens to find it ingame.
0 (0%)
I don't use them as they violate my faith in P&P.
0 (0%)
I have an entirely different approach (please specify below).
3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Author Topic: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?  (Read 5082 times)

Offline jester

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Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« on: December 07, 2004, 03:34:24 PM »
Having failed the selfishness test a gazillion times I come to ask myself, how my fellow players treat items that increase a stat permanently?

My powergaming self tries to get me to up the appropriate stats for the NPCs I am travelling with to make them more useful, while my little demons argue that why waste anything on those who never have to give up anything during our journeys considering the many times I loose stats to the plot.



Disclaimer: This poll has been created out of a strong scientific interest and any spuriousity that might occur is pure coincidence and serves a higher goal, I suppose.

*spolier alert* Just in case there might be some below about any specifics in the games.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2004, 04:10:43 AM by jester »
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Offline Echon

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2004, 03:55:25 PM »
Would you mind explaining the fourth option?

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Offline Evaine Dian

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2004, 04:00:12 PM »
I always use them on myself. I try to persuade me that I might not take my party members along for a long time and thus better not "waste" anything on them, although I know that I never change my party. 

Strangely enough I never fail the selfishness test, though.
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Offline jester

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2004, 04:06:14 PM »
As I am not that versed in all the underlying guidebooks and materials and sometimes find that you can find more powerful stuff in a casual stroll around in one of the games than in most guidebooks combined, I wondered whether people who feel strongly abour RPing actually object to the existence and/or number of tomes or their availabilty under certain circumstances. Actually I had a certain range of people in mind that could share their perspective on this.

Or I just thought that I was lacking credibility, if I could not muster enough questions in this poll. Your call, really. ;)
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Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2004, 04:34:45 PM »
It's usually a mix, really.  I rather *like* having my PC to have sub-optimal stats, so I'll often wind up giving away the tomes.
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Offline Sovran

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2004, 04:46:30 PM »
When I'm feeling inspired (or something), I try to figure out to whom the characters themselves would give the uber-items, tomes, and the like. There was this game where my PC (a conjurer), Haer'Dalis, Imoen and Solaufein got into a lengthy argument over who should use what would appear to be the recipe for enhancing intelligence. Roleplaying at its most desperate. :P

Or should I say they had the argument in my head? ... or I had them have the argument in my head? ... I need tea. :-X

Offline Ghreyfain

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2004, 04:52:53 PM »
Sometimes I do that, too.  Did it quite a bit in BG1, since no one actually spoke.  Mental Banter Packs.
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Offline KIrving

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2004, 05:06:21 PM »
Sometimes I do that, too. Did it quite a bit in BG1, since no one actually spoke. Mental Banter Packs.
:)

Hmm...mind modding aside.....I tend to give the tomes to the appropriate character, including the PC.  I like a balanced party.
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Offline Murdane

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2004, 06:11:31 PM »
It's usually a mix, really.  I rather *like* having my PC to have sub-optimal stats, so I'll often wind up giving away the tomes.

That's sorta-kinda the way I am now.  With my first character, I gave all the BG1 tomes to her, and used the machine to give her the INT, WIS, and CHA increases.  But now, I actually prefer to have the stats of my PC's remain static (even though raising them with magic isn't "anti-P&P" in any sense of the word--it's fairly common), and I give the points to whomever I want.  There is no pattern...sometimes I'll give certain points to my PC, others to various NPCs. 

Whatever I want at the time.

Offline jester

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2004, 06:23:22 PM »
I like the roleplaying option. Sounds funny, but I have never really considered this having treated them as a meta thing like a bonus life or something.
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Offline neriana

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2004, 07:24:18 PM »
I think I've always given my PC the Dexterity and Charisma tomes. Other than that, they go to the party member who needs them most. Jaheira's often gotten the Wisdom tomes in the past, and I gave Imoen the Strength tome once.
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Offline Eral

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2004, 10:37:58 PM »
Imopen always gets the strength boosts. Her 50 pound limit is gets really annoying after a while. If I'm going to be keeping a party member I might as well boost their abilities, especially as my PC isn't going to be taking her super-skills anywhere else now.
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Offline Reverendratbastard

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2004, 03:21:09 AM »
  granted, it is absurd how available the tomes are during bg1 (especially for WIS of course) and how 'balanced' (as in one recipe for each stat, otherwise quite 'unbalancing') the machine's power is.  i'm hopeful about fields of the dead actually putting them in - shall we say much more secure locations?
  i generally prefer iwd2's potion/tradeoff approach.  but 90% of the time i'm pretty munchkiney about the tomes/machine.

  to wit, i can always afford to give one of the giant-strength girdles to imoen.  permanent STR boosts go to charname if they started with anything over 14 or under 9, otherwise a fighter-type.  taking utterly fair use of SK into account (i.e. carrying over bg1 npc stats) it can be nice to have two S 19s in the party without acquiring a girdle.  (even though my personal view is that the whole exceptional-strength scale is very annoyingly bungled by this engine [though not so much with torment, i was pleased to note]; was never terrifically appropriate after 1e came to a halt; and died a righteous death in the fire of 3e.)

  charname always gets the CHA boosts unless s/he depends on the ring of human influence - then it's a toss-up, although it'd never go to any of the bioware dwarves, nor most of the males for that matter - ajantis or coran perhaps, but more likely imoen or safana.
  and always the DEX unless it's not going to make a substantial difference (taking sacrifice/s into account) - in which case the book goes to coran if he's there; any other circumstance, it's for any of the under-18s except keldorn, anomen or edwin.
  imoen, edwin, nalia can squabble over INT (once arcane-charname has 19, if applicable); i might give quayle, aerie, jan or a bard a shot at it.
  WIS mostly went to branwen, but i never used to have much flexibility between bg1 campaigns; i'd consider giving viconia, xzar, faldorn, yeslick and/or jaheira a dose as well - might even give minsc a couple for the times he can't rely on the daily berserk.
  if CON won't particularly help charname, it goes to whatever dwarf happens to be along, but any of the fighter-types are excellent candidates.  or jan or kelsey, even.

  i've done party-wide mental-banter with the Machine recipes a couple of times, but with tomes only once:  safana 'talked' charname into giving her the CHA booster because she'd 'let him' have the CON from the hidden stash.  meh, i was lonely and gullible. :-[

  after careful reflection, i'd consider giving all boosts to garrick in an experimental run, except then i'd rather eliminate him from the temple district... (and drag him along multiplayer style).  never could bring myself to bring him through a whole bg1 run before.  ridiculously enough he lasted the longest when charname was a bard.

  something i wondered about but haven't checked up on:  does bg2 include the  immunities granted by over-18 INT (illusions) or WIS (mind control et al.)?  (this was possibly only ever a 1e arrangement; 2e documentation isn't springing to mind and i don't have any of 2e's relevant works at hand)
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Offline Echon

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2004, 03:37:34 AM »
  granted, it is absurd how available the tomes are during bg1 (especially for WIS of course) and how 'balanced' (as in one recipe for each stat, otherwise quite 'unbalancing') the machine's power is.  i'm hopeful about fields of the dead actually putting them in - shall we say much more secure locations?

That is my aim. At present none of the books are in the game as I have not decided where to hide them yet. It is also no big secret that there will only be one Tome of Understanding in the game. I do not think these books are unbalanced but three of the same kind is over the top.

Quote
something i wondered about but haven't checked up on:  does bg2 include the  immunities granted by over-18 INT (illusions) or WIS (mind control et al.)?

No.

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Offline Reverendratbastard

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2004, 03:50:09 AM »
I do not think these books are unbalanced but three of the same kind is over the top.
very much so.

Quote
Quote
something i wondered about but haven't checked up on:  does bg2 include the  immunities granted by over-18 INT (illusions) or WIS (mind control et al.)?

No.
weak.  :P  (although again, i can't remember seeing this reproduced in 2e anyway)
 (yet another mod notion, then - perhaps a middle ground in which, rather than, e.g. "all 1st-level illusion spells" for 19 int, the subject gets to choose one appropriate single-spell immunity (perhaps only amongst those they had already learned/could be granted) for each point past 18 (or at the level-up following the stat gain)?)
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Offline Kish

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2004, 03:57:44 AM »
Quote
Quote
something i wondered about but haven't checked up on:  does bg2 include the  immunities granted by over-18 INT (illusions) or WIS (mind control et al.)?

No.
weak.  :P  (although again, i can't remember seeing this reproduced in 2e anyway)
It's in the 2ed PHB, yes.  I didn't know it was there for 1ed.  *never played 1ed*

It's not in 3ed, though.

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Offline Reverendratbastard

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2004, 04:07:20 AM »
It's in the 2ed PHB, yes.  I didn't know it was there for 1ed.
only by dint of Deities & Demigods.
 that's right, the 2eph has the extra blue (grey?) boxed extensions of the stat charts...

Quote
It's not in 3ed, though.
  if i ever actually manage to round up enough people to play any p&p d&d ever again, the major overhaul of the spell system will probably compensate. 8)
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Offline jester

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2004, 04:14:37 AM »
Is the arcane knowledge feat which IIRC let's  you know which spell your opponents cast a 3ed only thing? Otherwise this immunity would make a lot of sense especially for high level mages (Har, Har that circus cantrip fools noone! Take a taste of this!)
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Offline Reverendratbastard

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2004, 04:18:40 AM »
 
  it was implemented in the 2e skill system, but as far as our computrified shenanigans go, it's a 3e exclusive feature.
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Offline Sovran

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2004, 08:47:52 AM »
Sometimes I do that, too. Did it quite a bit in BG1, since no one actually spoke. Mental Banter Packs.

Something to be said for the banter in vanilla BG1, or mostly, the lack thereof: you had to activate your imagination. (Or just point and click. Not that it wasn't fun enough, too.)

Quote
  it was implemented in the 2e skill system, but as far as our computrified shenanigans go, it's a 3e exclusive feature.

If I understood how that works, you would have to take mind modding into a whole new level for that to work in BG2.

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Protagonist: I commence using my mysterious powers in order to detect that this spell is --
Player: (Can't... resist...)
Protagonist: For no apparent reason, I commence casting Spell Immunity: Abjuration.

Offline jester

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2004, 09:07:20 AM »
Lol, happens to me very often, but if you assume that most mages (I don't know about how demiliches cast which must be different) use a certain gesture or vocal component, you could guess what your opponent is after. For all that it would be worth in your last seconds. I doubt that your protagonist would get his spell immunity up in time.

It would work for area stuff as you get a better chance to dodge these in advance.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2004, 09:09:34 AM by jester »
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Offline Ashara

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2004, 12:17:14 PM »
I just give tomes to Kivan... Simple, efficient, quick and makes me happy :)
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Offline jester

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Re: Who do you use tomes and other enhancements on?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2004, 12:51:28 PM »
Who would have guessed?  :D
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